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"Rocket" is great, as well. Of course classics like "Today" and "Cherub Rock" are always monumental. "Silverfuck" and "Geek USA" are awesome too, but the album as a whole is among my favorite things to come out of the 90s Alternative Rock movement, along with In Utero and Blood Sugar Sex Magik. Mellon Collie used to be my favorite album but I'm an advocate for a more focused, proportionate album (Stadium Arcadium was even too much for me to handle and I could base my life on the Chili Peppers). Siamese Dream is just perfect. NSR77 TC 19:35, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, what have you got on One Hot Minute? NSR77 TC 16:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
"Dalley, Helen (August 2002). "John Frusciante" Total Guitar." You can use that source for Joy Division. In that, Frusciante states Bernard Summer was an influence on him when writing By the Way. Also, I'm getting "Tales of a Scorched Earth" in the mail soon. It is one of, if not the only, published story of the Smashing Pumpkins. I'd like to work on Siamese Dream sometime in the future, too. NSR77 TC 17:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Figures as much. What's wrong with it? NSR77 TC 23:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I bought it pretty cheap off of Amazon Marketplace, so I'm not too worried. The reviews of the book from other users mimic what you said; to a pretty frightening degree. It's pretty sad that there is nothing out there in terms of good SP books. For conversation's sake, what do you think of them these days? NSR77 TC 23:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I felt Zeitgeist lacked...everything. It lacked Iha's subtle presence. It lacked D'arcy's feel (regardless of her contributions, or lack thereof, on any Pumpkins' album). Personally I thought Melissa Auf Der Maur was a great replacement. I'd be thrilled if she had returned. Why she did not is still a mystery. Ginger Reyes and Jeff Schroeder don't really fit under the title of "Smashing Pumpkins". Overall, I don't think Billy should have resurrected the name; it's almost as if he's lowered their ground-shattering status to more of a small shake. MACHINA is still, in my eyes, their last album. Everything else that has and (probably) will come is foreign. NSR77 TC 00:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. MACHINA had some awesome, spacey guitar work though. I give it that. Adore was a great attempt to be different. Everything prior to it pretty much utopia. Zeitgeist was too politically involved. Some songs, in almost every band, have various underlying political motifs. This new album, though, was arrogant enough to name songs "United States" and "For God and Country". I saw the new Pumpkins live in San Francisco and they were great. I can't wait until they announce some New York dates so I can fly home and see them again. I'm not, however, lucky enough to be my age (or even in high school) during the time period I center my life in. If I could be the person I am right now in 1990 I'd love it. To have seen the Chili Peppers with Nirvana or the Smashing Pumpkins? The Pumpkins in 1996? Nirvana at all? I could have died a happy man. But, alas, life is not kind enough. :) NSR77 TC 00:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I remember my brother, though, bringing me to a Smashing Pumpkins concert in the late nineties when I was around 9 or 10. That's the one I had mentioned on my user page. Now that I've seen them I don't really count it anymore. The only thing that comes to mind about the concert is that I couldn't hear shit for a few days. NSR77 TC 01:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Are you/have you seen the Cure this year? I'm seeing them in June at Madison Square Garden. NSR77 TC 15:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
A good friend of mine is obsessed with the Cure and asked me if I'd go see them with her and a few of my other friends considering she had an extra ticket. I like them quite a bit, but I can't say I've seen any of their live material. What should I expect? NSR77 TC 23:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Well as long as the music is good. The Pumpkins (even back in their youth) never moved around too much. The Peppers (who are now over 40 save for Frusciante who is in his late 30s) certainly don't move around as much as they used to at every show, but they are still one of the most energetic bands out there. Robert Smith never came across as a jumpy kind of guy. He's pretty scary looking too, so I won't be wearing contacts the night of the show. NSR77 TC 23:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Formation of the Pixies?

Just musing on creating an article about the formation of the Pixies (I reckon I could write a decent-sized article on the whole thing). What are your thoughts? CloudNine 20:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Reorganized. Makes more sense to me anyway. Not sure why Cameron's liking of the song in mentioned in the lead, probable trivia really. (It may be worth pointing out the members in the music video caption as well, and expanding that section). CloudNine 15:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Feeder discography

Hi!, I've nominated this article for FA list status, but since I need more people to pass it to get it to FA, I was wondering if you could review it for me please? :).

Many thanks in advance! :).Marcus Bowen 16:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Batcomputer

Just thought I'd put the above article on your radar. I might get time to take a pass, but would appreciate your thoughts. Steve block Talk 00:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Batman

Hi Mr Sandman. If you want any encouragement or help, let me know. I pulled a similar rewrite on Superman at the beginning of the year, although I got that through under the veil of an actual review of the featured article status, and I too found it hard to balance what I felt the article should be with the approach other editors were taking. Since the rewrite, though, the page has, to my amazement, stayed fairly stable since. I have Batman on my watchlist, but given the number of other people who watch it it tends to fall down my list of priorities. So if you need someone to chip in debate, let me know. I read through your rewrite on your user sub-page, and I don't have any issues with it. Looks like a good job, to be honest. One day I'll get back to the re-write of Comics I have in my subpage tree somewhere. Steve block Talk 13:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

RE: MBV

Wow! That's the best news I've heard in a while. Do you think we ought to start My Bloody Valentine's third studio album? --Brandt Luke Zorn 01:48, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah. Oh well, still great news. I added information related to this to the "Legacy" section of the Loveless article. --Brandt Luke Zorn 02:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. I have to ask you for an unrelated favor: Could you add a quote from the Spin 100 Greatest Albums, 1985-2005 issue to Spiderland? Thanks, --Brandt Luke Zorn 03:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Now that I think about it In the Aeroplane Over the Sea and Bee Thousand (was Bee Thousand on the list? I think so, but I can't recall) could use it. Any Pavement album on the list too, so I'm not bugging you with this in the future. --Brandt Luke Zorn 03:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Great, I'll see what I can do with the lead. By the way, is there any statistic on how well Loveless has sold? --Brandt Luke Zorn 00:08, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I found this, which says that Loveless sells less than 12,000 copies a year, is a widely reproduced AP article. Also, the Rolling Stone list probably is worldwide: compare Rolling Stone saying Sgt. Pepper sold 11.7 million and this 2006 article listing Pepper's UK-only sales as 4,803,292. We can probably conclude that all figures given are worldwide. --Brandt Luke Zorn 03:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, I've expanded the lead a little, though I can't think to add anything else right now and it's probably a little awkwardly worded. --Brandt Luke Zorn 07:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music October 2007 Newsletter

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter
Issue 7 - October 2007
"It's weird when you play a show somewhere and there's a disproportionate number of people backstage talking about how they're witches."- Trent Reznor
Project news
New members

Sorchah and Tarc joined the alternative music fold during October.

Editors

User:CloudNine


You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated xihix(talk) 23:11, 8 November 2007 (UTC) .

Belle & Sebastian

I'll do that, thanks for the tip! faithless (speak) 02:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

List!

There are 3 that stand out straight away: I have a casette recording of the fall live in iceland from 1982, when they were touring songs from Hex Enduction Hour, Richie Hawtin Live @ Chesterfield Labelland Gold 22-06-2002, and er, Thin Lizzy Live and dangerous (because of a woman; the one that got away). Ceoil 08:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh my. You know, I had a good feeling about today. See you in about three hours. Ceoil 08:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
downloading From Here to Eternity: Live now. First impressions of in rainbows...don't like it. Ceoil 08:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
hype hype and more hype. Uncut, mojo et all all carried pieces on the forthcoming rem album; more bullshit; we fucked up with out last 5 albums we know, but this one feels good, its a bit like reckoning, the time is right for people to like rem again, we are really excited, connecting again, etcetctec. Ceoil 08:49, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Dont know anything about industrial music; but the only reason anybody puts post in front of a gendre is because (a) they are trying to distingush (sic) a new band, (b) they are a wanker. Ceoil 08:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

David Holmes; Essential Mix [1993-12-18] - Part 2Ceoil 19:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails at FLC (again)

Thanks so much for your comments on the previous FLC for the Nine Inch Nails discography. Unfortunately the FLC failed since I just didn't have enough time to address the issues raised, but I have since had a bit more free time, and have addressed the problems and have resubmitted the article for Featured List status. I would very much appreciate if you could give the article another look and let me know what you think on its new FLC page. Thanks! Drewcifer 05:21, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The Spangle Maker

Gain his voice
On pepper tree
Hardened swallow whole hose
Real muse and she
Its fairy dust of the first order, but there is nothing wrong with that. Ceoil 22:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

MBV Album no 3. Thats what. Ceoil 09:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Whats it called? Link please. Ceoil 09:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. The only song I like from that album these days is never understand. The rest? Dunno. Ceoil 10:15, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Really? I'm dissapointed to hear you say that. Such is life, <sigh>. WesleyDodds, your dead to me. Ceoil 10:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and friend, don't you think of delinking "Irish". Ceoil 10:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Bty is is odd to close the doors and windows before you throw frankie up on itunes. Bearing in mind my admiration for H.D. Ceoil 10:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
He. I'm listening to Together In Electric Dreams now, my catholic neighbours are reassured to hear. Any you; and links today? Ceoil 10:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
As far as I can see Loveless was recorded during an acid peak for Sheilds and Buther, while McGee was too coked to take control and sort the situation out. Thats my take, and the books as much as says it. I'll work for a bit; but I really don't like leads - can you redraft as appropriate when I'm done (a day or 2). Ceoil 10:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Muchious gratios. Ceoil 10:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Great. The Cavnagh book finds a lot of humour in shields, but its is nothing compared to the way it tears apart Guy. Ceoil 10:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
"a bit of a wanker"? And the rest. - [1]. Ceoil 10:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
As a priority something has to be done with the The House of Love article. Ceoil 11:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Th point is that MBV were a joke until 1988, and had put out a lot of dreadful EPS; isn't anthing was considered a freak fluke, and people hoped for more. Ceoil 11:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Freaky, isn't it. Ceoil 11:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm really tempted to create a long post script. What do you reckon? Ceoil 11:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
This song is so good I've taken to bed. Ceoil 12:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Husker Du

Are you interested in collaborating again sometime soon on Zen Arcade? (I reckon with work it might be a GA). Also, I'm looking to expand Metal Circus or New Day Rising sometime soon if you're interested. CloudNine 20:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Joy Division

I noticed that you are listed as Wikipedia:One featured article per quarter for this article, so thought you'd like to know I've GA reviewed it and placed it on hold. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 04:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, about GA fail but without expanding the citations it wasn't going to work. I think you'll find a similar problem at FA. By the way, I have just put in an order at my library for "From Joy Divison to New Order : the Factory story" by Mick Middles and "True faith : an armchair guide to New Order : Joy Division, Electronic, Revenge, Monaco and the Other Two" by Dave Thompson. Sometime next week I should be up to speed and help you with your FA push. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 04:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

RE: Joy Division

Hm. The argument that you used limited sources is odd, and the other issues seemed minor. Plus now the sources issue would undoubtedly be brought up at FAC if you take it there. Unfortunately, neither book is readable from Amazon or Google Books either, or else I would have recommended that you take a few token references from them. Oh well; it's nice the reviewer is trying to access the books himself, because it won't really hurt the article even if isn't really necessary. --Brandt Luke Zorn 05:30, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what Loveless really needs at this point. Right now it seems pretty comparable to Be Here Now. I think any major issues will be brought up at Peer Review. And I definitely plan on working on Siamese Dream over Thanksgiving break, mostly Recording and Music sections. --Brandt Luke Zorn 06:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you think that Siamese Dream (and all the other Smashing Pumpkins album articles, for that matter) really need outtakes sections? I argued for them during the FAC of Adore, but now I'm not really liking them. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 00:42, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's something of interest: Currently on news-stands is the November issue of Mojo Magazine, which includes an awesome Joy Division article written by Anton Corbijn AND an A-Z guide of New Wave albums. The cover story is of Blondie, by the way. NSR77 TC 22:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Not to mention a tidbit on Liam Gallagher and Oasis. NSR77 TC 22:42, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Haha, I just picked it up today. The Joy Division article was quite nice. I hope to be back soon. Also, feel free to add anything you want to OHM. What songs doesn't Navarro like (I'm going to take a stab and say "My Friends")? NSR77 TC 23:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Very interesting. NSR77 TC 23:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
In Scar Tissue, Kiedis mentions he thought the album was the best they could produce as a group who did not really feel all that connected. They were on the verge of breaking up when Navarro left. The band didn't think Frusciante would come back (obviously) and they thought it was the end of the line. Overall, One Hot Minute is not a bad album. Just not a great one. NSR77 TC 00:09, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

That's bad news. I probably won't be able to get it: $40 would be about 8 weeks of chores, and I'm not really eager to spend all that on one book. Do you know anyone who owns it who could scan it?

Also, have you heard about this? Billy went to find the original Siamese Dream twins, but I don't think anything became of it and his intentions were never made clear. I figure it'd be worth mentioning, but I thought I'd ask you about it first. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 06:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I stuck it in the Artwork section. Don't know why, but I feel somewhat at a loss trying to add to the Siamese Dream article. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 07:51, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

NIN WikiProject

I'd like to invite you to join the newly-formed Nine Inch Nails WikiProject. There's alot of NIN-related articles on Wikipedia that could use a little attention, and I hope this project can help organize an effort to improve them. So please, take a look and if you like what you see, help me get this project of the ground and a few Nine Inch Nails pages into the front ranks of Wikipedia articles. Thanks! Drewcifer 10:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Kim Deal

Thanks! Yeah, that article is a project I've been putting off for a long time for some reason. (Although expanding The Breeders will help with expanding the article). I think I'll expand Lovering first (possibly to FA status) and then work on Deal's article. CloudNine (talk) 23:21, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Nice. I may have a use for that. By the way, do you think it's worth taking The Teen Idles further? They're fairly obscure, so I wonder if it's worth the effort. CloudNine (talk) 23:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Just Like Heaven is actually a fairly decent sized article (I suspect David Lovering may be shorter). Talking of Lovering, could you run a search on Rocksbackpages.com when you have the time? I'd like to confirm he played in Cracker (Fool the World (the oral history) quotes quite a lot from the Spin interview, but doesn't mention the bands he played in). CloudNine (talk) 01:31, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

FAC help

I nominated Rock Steady (album) as a featured article candidate a month ago. It had two supports and just got an oppose for copyediting issues. From the comment, I'm assuming that the issue extends to more than just the points listed, so I was wondering if you might be able to look through the article. 17Drew (talk) 08:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I can go through it, just not in detail until the end of the week because of Thanksgiving. 17Drew (talk) 08:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I checked Entertainment Weekly since it generally has lots of useful information. I probably checked The New York Times, though it seems to focus more on concert reviews from what I can tell. But I never knew Time did album reviews. Thanks! 17Drew (talk) 09:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I think I've made all of the changes you recommended at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rock Steady (album). The main reason for the Songs section was because of a comment at the first FAC for Love. Angel. Music. Baby., which was the only FAC I had fail. I think you're right about the duplicate information though. I added the section for Rock Steady (album) to use as much information as is available since there are fewer sources since the album's older, but on the same note, it meant that what information there was often did get repeated.

I made some of the bulleted suggestions to the article itself and then userfied the article at User:17Drew/Rock Steady since merging the Songs section was too much for one edit. The information from the Songs section is now merged into the Composition and Sales and impact sections (diff). Let me know if this was what you had in mind and if I should move it to the actual article. 17Drew 05:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

RE: Future projects

I'd love to do In Utero. Then there's also "Heart-Shaped Box", which we never really started. Any thing would be fine though, really. What else were you thinking of? --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 10:13, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I could do Definitely Maybe (though I prefer (What's the Story) Morning Glory?), Achtung Baby (lots of information available, and while I haven't ever actually heard it I want to get it), and Reckoning. Don't know too much about Stone Roses, Joy Division (though I do like them), or the Cure. And for future reference, my favorite Beatles album is Help! and my favorite Zeppelin album is either II or IV. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 12:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I do like Definitely Maybe, and it has a few songs which are fantastic, but when I listen to the whole album front-to-back it runs together and sounds like a blur of overdriven guitar. Morning Glory sounds a bit more varied, IMHO. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 11:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
If you have more resources for Definitely Maybe that should definitely be the one to do. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 12:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Read WP:GAR

I do not need to take the article through GAR to delist it. Read WP:GAR. It says If you find an article that you suspect should be delisted, but aren't certain, then you can ask other editors to reassess it here. Well, no, I don't "suspect" it should be delisted, I'm certain it should be delisted, and I will delist it unless this problem is resolved. The policy states, Leave a message on the article talk page detailing any remaining problems. Allow time for other editors to respond. If the article still does not meet the criteria, it can be delisted. Nobody has responded to the fundamental problems and all attempts at fixing it have been reverted without discussion. Once it is delisted, the discussion process can begin as to how to fix it and bring it up to GA standards once again. FCYTravis (talk) 09:11, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for taking a stab at fixing it. We'll see if it stands. FCYTravis (talk) 09:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Now that I know we'll have some people working together on this, time's not an issue - take all of it we might need to make it better. I was just quite hot after making good-faith attempts to fix the problem and being blindly reverted, twice. I don't like making drama but now there's some eyes on this thing. FCYTravis (talk) 09:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

David Bowie

Hi. You recently removed a substantial amount of relevant and researched information from the above article without explaining why, either in an edit summary (blank) or by posting to Talk:David Bowie. If you would like to discuss why you believe the info should be removed, please post there with valid comments. In the meantime, your edit has been reverted. Please do not repeat the edit until you have entered into consensus-building to establish the validity of your change. Thanks. Ref (chew)(do) 12:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Please refer to the article on his notable album Station to Station. There is adequate researched testimony to the krautrock genre. There are other Bowie albums which have been verified as belonging to this genre, but only one needs to be indentified to validate the addition of the genre to his userbox. Above all, don't just wipe off information without at least referring to the talk page for the article, but preferably by posting to it with a full set of reasonings. Thanks. Ref (chew)(do) 12:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Joy Division

I'll give some feedback, but it'll be very picky. Up to you. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I thought you wanted me to take a look? I asked if you was sure, but you didn't get back to me. LuciferMorgan (talk) 09:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
You can bug me as much as you wish, so feel free. That link would be much appreciated. I can't say I'll be able to look at it asap, but I'll take a look by sometime next week. LuciferMorgan (talk) 11:34, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain

Wesley, what is this?

Did you actually read that section before you deleted it? It's not POV. It's a statement of the major points of the theory - with sourced rebuttals. It was intentionally written not to be "this happened, this happened, Kurt was murdered". It's written as "Grant says this, but other media investigated it and said this". It's the same model used by 9/11 conspiracy theories. -- ChrisB (talk) 03:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The only instances of "Critics say" that were in the section are still in the article. The other sections (save the shotgun and Carroll elements) have direct responses from outside media outlets (eg, NBC) or friends of Cobain (eg, Lee Renaldo's claim that Gold Mountain's insistence that Cobain was fine was simply a cover-up).
Who Killed Kurt Cobain is cited repeatedly because it is a primary source for the theory itself. We can certainly cite other media reports on the theory, but those would technically be secondary sources. I wouldn't object to using more media reports, though, since those media reports are available.
Honestly, per WP:UNDUE, I have no objection to pulling the details of the theory out and moving them to their own article. Apart from the assertion that the section is POV, my main objection to your deletion is that it lends credence to what FCYTravis is trying to do. He believes that the theory is false, and has done everything short of stating such in the article.
The third paragraph of the article now readily suggests that because the case hasn't been reopened, the theory must be false. You and I both know that such a statement is a flagrant violation of WP:NPOV. What weight we give to the theory is certainly up to discussion, but NPOV rules specifically bar us from making judgements of those viewpoints.
Frankly, if it comes down to arguments of POV, I'd rather restore the last sentence of the third paragraph to: "Since then, the circumstances surrounding his death have fueled much analysis and debate." That is a factual statement that lends no credence to any conclusion - it doesn't even mention what the theories are. It's a far better summary statement for the lead than saying, "Murder theories are out there, but they're clearly false." -- ChrisB (talk) 06:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Alice in Chains

Hello, I am sorry about the ordeal with Alice in Chains, and I see your point. I suppose I can't argue with someone with an english major either.

Thank you,

Skeeker [Talk] 01:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Articles by size

Thanks for putting that list together; made for interesting reading (esp. the overwhelming focus on artists rather than albums or songs). The new list definitely has some surprises; the article on David Lovering is longer than that of indie rock for example. CloudNine (talk) 16:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. However, it looks like the article is getting shorter over time. Perhaps I should do a detailed review (as with Audioslave) to trim various sections. CloudNine (talk) 12:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Radiohead

Hi, I've put the Radiohead article up for a peer review, and would welcome your opinions on it. Thanks. Atlantik (talk) 21:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Loveless

Hadn't realised I'd come off that aggressive, and for that I apologise. Like I say, let me know which points you need developing, and I'll be happy to look up some sources. As to the situation regarding the nationality, I'm not being aggressive but I am asserting our policies. Hiding T 12:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Sorry, I just thought it was best to get the broadest input going. I was personally fairly happy discussing it on the talk page for now, didn't see the real need to go over to the project. Dunno where you want to go from here. It's funny how one simple word can cause this much trouble. I spent all last night racking my brains for a compromise, (god awful footnotes or clunky text) but I do feel rather strongly that describing the band as Irish is wrong. I'll help build a consensus and respect that, but I do want to thrash the issue to its fullest. There was a limited discussion 18 months ago over this when I started a rewrite of the MBV article that I never finished, but agin it never went far. My personal opinion then was that it was best to categorise them as Irish and British, but I think it settled at English and Irish. I just worry that readers are going to look at "Irish band" and say, wait, that's wrong and remove it, or think that they are all Irish musicians, which again is wrong. So I guess my argument is that it misleads. I'm not looking to deny anything, I'm struggling with intellectual honesty issues. If there's a way to square the circle, I'm all ears. My best solution is to just not mention it. Anyone who wants to know can go to the band article where it's better delineated. Hiding T 11:30, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
    • I think comics fans are likely more loners. But who knows. For me, the issue is less one related to alt rock than it is NPOV, I'd have rather gone that direction. I'm not fussed though, I just think the issue needs outside input, people who aren't au fait with the facts and can judge from a neutral position, if you get me. Hiding T 11:42, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
      • Regarding a rewrite, if it ever gets picked up I'll be sure to contact you and whoever else. There was a Shane somebody or other who had one worked up in his user space too from what I remember. It's in my talk page archives somewhere. As to the MBV debate, I don't mean to question you, I'm just expressing my opinion on ways to go forward. Since that doesn't seem to be helping, it's best if I shut up on that front. Hiding T 12:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

More

In a rush, supposed to be working, but I can source a quote where Bilinda discusses Googe's lack of role on the album, something about the time it would have taken to explain what Kevin wanted made it easier to do himself. There's also a quote somewhere about 1990 being devoted to basslines only, although how true that is I don't know, and I think I've got something on the tinnitus, I'm sure I have something about Shields seeing a doctor and it was to do with their loud volume. Shields has also been ribbed as a hypochondriac by fellow band members. I'll try and dig it up unless you've read all this before? It's from old interviews. Hiding T 10:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Yeah, you're right, my eye is off the ball, the Butcher stuff is there but later in the article.

Tinnitus, it's not exactly tinnitus, but here's the quote, from 1992, touring Loveless:


To me that contrasts with the article which states Concerned friends and band members suggested this was as a result of the unusually loud volumes MBV played at their gigs: "Ill-informed hysteria" according to Shields.

Regarding the Brian Eno quote that the article sources from the press release, Melody Maker attribute it to a lecture he gave: And it won them acclaim from Brian Eno, who, in a lecture at New York's Museum Of Modern Art, described it as "the vaguest piece of music ever to get into the charts". If Steve Reich or Glenn Branca had been responsible for it, he continued, they would have been given an award by the classical music establishment. Melody Maker, December 1990 "Symphonic Chaos".

I also have a rather amusing snippet on the Soon remix where Melody Maker trash it. Can't source the basslines for 1990 as yet, dunno where I put that. Hiding T 11:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Loveless

Yeah, I'll review it too if you want. I've read it over a few times, but haven't really disassembled it for a review. I can try to get that done by the end of today. On another note, would you (or anyone else that you think would be willing) take a look at Niandra Lades and Usually Just a T-Shirt? It is not long and wouldn't take up too much of your time. I'm really displeased with the backlog at GAC. It kind of puts me off to writing another article because I know it will take forever to get through the process. Regards, NSR77 TC 20:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Hate to say it but the influence/legacy section is too US-centric. It needs to be balanced out with the whole shoegaze thing in the UK; there was a period in 1991 / 1992 where the NME was like a MBV fanzine, and even in interviews with other bands all anybody ever said was MBVMBVMBVMBVMBVMBVMBVMBVMBVMBVMBV. Ceoil 16:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Other than what Ceoil brought up it looks good. Certainly there isn't anything that would hold it back from a FAC nomination at this point. Also, uh, interesting Thom Yorke quote there on the newsletter. --Brandt Luke Zorn 01:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
And Loveless is right below Slay Tracks, too. I think it's funny that GAC is so backlogged with popular music-related articles, and that there are way more Featured articles about music than about other nominally more important topics. Evidently music nerds can produce Wikipedia articles at a frightening pace. By the way, it occurred to me that Loveless could use another sample. I was thinking something like "Soon" or "Sometimes", but tell me what you think. --Brandt Luke Zorn 03:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Read it again just now, and it looks good. Agree that another sample wouldn't go admiss, but other than that i thinks its ok for a nom. Ceoil 12:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
There is no going back now! I need a drink and a sit down. Ceoil (talk) 13:33, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
The FAC is going well I think. Re: co-nominator; I think I'll leave supporting alone and just maintain a dignified silence. Had a look at R.E.M., this morning, v v good. Later. Ceoil (talk) 09:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Gimme 11 or 12 hours days. Ceoil (talk) 16:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll get to the magee quote later, but what exactly does 'Loveless was largely recorded in mono sound' mean? Ceoil (talk) 01:54, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

But it doesn't make any fucking sence. Tracks are not recorded in mono or stereo, they are mixed in mono or stereo. Ceoil (talk) 02:55, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
A bit like papel infability, eh? Ceoil (talk) 05:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't suppose you have a few links on you, brother. Ceoil (talk) 05:14, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The man says "This video is unavailable" Ceoil (talk) 05:21, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. That band have been so bad for so long, you forget how good they once were. Ceoil (talk) 11:33, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey! I like that song! I really, really, don't like Metallica, but I've seen them 4 times (took my younger brother twice, and a dodgy chick twice), the only time my ears pricked up during those endless, boring, tedious, fucking gigs was during the st. anger songs (and of course during 'whiskey in the jar). Ceoil (talk) 11:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh jesus. Thank you. Philo was some man, for an irish man. Ceoil (talk) 11:54, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
The seedy acquard mouchastashed dancers in the audience are priceless! Ceoil (talk) 11:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

one, two, 3, 4. Ceoil (talk) 12:08, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Some of young galaxy are up there with H.D., no? Ceoil (talk) 12:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I've seen some strange things in my time, but fuck me; U2 + Arcade Fire - Love Will Tear Us Apart Again + accordian + fiddle? Ceoil (talk) 12:57, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Did you hear the rumour on th internets this morning that alan mcgee can fly? I wonder where that came from. Ceoil (talk) 13:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Spent the last half hr watching The Spangle Maker on utube. Is liz frazier hot, or is it just me? Ceoil (talk) 14:16, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Much as I'd like to take credit, this one is nearly all down to you. Congradulations, and best of luck with JD and REM. Ceoil (talk) 08:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Punk metal

Thought you might be interested in the nomination for deletion of the punk metal article. Thundermaster367Thundermaster's Talk 13:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

R.E.M. (band)

Your serial deletions of my edit to the R.E.M. (band) are apparently some sort of power-trip on your part. If you continue, I will bring the matter up to as many arbitration committees and admins as I feel necessary. J.R. Hercules 16:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

^ lol. Yeah, Bill Berry seems to be an elusive fellow, almost as elusive as Michael Stipe's hair. Can you think of any Berry-era notable performances or years when the band was touring heavily? I might be able to find a fansite or something like that with appropriate photos and mail them a request. - Phorque (talk) 08:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Alternative Newsletter

Do you wish me to deliver it? xihix(talk) 00:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, Wesley, what happened to the newsletter? It's way too big. NSR77 TC 00:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Looks fine now. On another note, how is Loveless going? I saw a review there but an "on hold" template has not replaced the current one. Do you still want me to take a look? NSR77 TC 01:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Heh, well I'm a direct person. I really don't like GAC because it takes forever for one user to makea few notes or add a template here and there when anyone could do it (as long as they aren't interested in the topic; the times I have asked someone to review an article I make sure they aren't familiar with it). FAC is completely different, though.I've been digging Loveless a lot lately when I listened to it one day out of the blue; it's really different. NSR77 TC 01:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure about you, but they look right to me... xihix(talk) 21:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, that is odd. When I place it in AWB, it shows finely in the prehend area. Weird, though. xihix(talk) 00:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music November 2007 Newsletter

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter
Issue 8 - November 2007
"Personality. Personality. Personality. Personality>Personlaity>peporisnaitiu.Pelsonlaity>personality> PSoDURYW'OB>peojuiuauA>PRFIVGU-JSNN.;YN~CPJHOQA" ALFIHI-WUSAZ;/P ioy iqNLKH GZW IGDB." - Thom Yorke
Project news
New members

Cambrant, Chickpeaface, Atlantik and Thelastfetusdying joined the alternative music fold during November.

Editors

User:WesleyDodds


You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated xihix(talk) 00:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Godsmack

Hi, would you please talk some sense into User:Demantos. He is trying to merge Godsmack discography with Godsmack. Godsmack has enough music to warrent a seperate article for discography, and any substantially successful band has one on wikipedia. Please comment on his talk page, and comment here.

Thank you,

Skeeker [Talk] 01:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

RE: Death of Kurt Cobain

I'd be glad to help on the weekend, but right now I'm literally swamped with homework and studying and fun stuff like that. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 06:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Loveless (album)

GA passed, congrats. Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 06:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I just now added a sample of "Soon", but I haven't filled out a description of the song and I won't be able to until later today. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 14:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the only thing maybe worth adding at this point would be some quotes from Kevin Shields in Turn On Your Mind (which also appear in Milk It!), but I'm not sure where to put them. And I think that that for a three way nomination one of us would initiate the nom and two would support it as a nominater/contributer. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 05:08, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I added a quote from Butcher, but one I wanted to add was an extended version of the Shields quote in Milk It about ecstasy, which also mentions influence from early 90s dance music and De La Soul. I was trying to fit it into the Music section, specifically mentioning "Soon", but I can't word it properly. The full quote is "A lot of the melodies and hook lines that come from the instruments are extremely dinky and toy-like. For me, that was the after-effects of experiencing too much Ecstasy....I love dance music; that was when De La Soul came out, and it was all such a happy sound." Also, could you give Spiderland a yea or nay at FAC? --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 07:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 07:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
It's on page 490. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 14:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Metallica

Thanks for the help, I'll need all i can get based on the articles' size. I do have a few things to say;

  • For United States should i use U.S. or US
  • What type of information do you want included on Newsted's departure, and should that section just be merged into St. Anger, considering it will be short if the hazing is removed
  • I have started a style and lyrical themes section @ User:M3tal H3ad/Sandbox detailing the whole musical change thing better than in the history of the article. (will also add 1-2 sound clips later)
  • The Load cover has been attributed to the band's change in that period, because some considered it weird and alternative, although I'll word it so it is like that

That's all for now. M3tal H3ad (talk) 02:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, made all the appropriate changes with everything mentioned. M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:37, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Could you please re-visit the article when you get an opportunity. The concerns you have raised, i believe i have dealt with. M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Scottish Music

Hi Wesley. I'd love to talk about Scottish music with you - you seem interested in some parts of the scene.APKH (talk) 13:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Flea

Thanks. The main problem with the article is gathering enough quotes to make sure the correct information is written in the correct series of events. Thanks again! NSR77 TC 16:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it arrived a few weeks ago. I also plan on using a good chunk from that since it is amazingly insightful. Do you know of anything else that focuses on his early life? That's the time period with the least published information. NSR77 TC 23:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I assume one could. There are also a couple Rolling Stone cover stories out there so they may be worth a look. Hopefully the Kerrang! article can be found online. What year was it from? NSR77 TC 23:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Looking around I've found quite a few Kerrang! cover stories on the Chili Peppers. What was the length and color of Kiedis' hair? NSR77 TC 00:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
The actual Red Hot Chili Peppers article has been something I've been avoiding lately. It would need a very thorough copyedit and review of all information (things that are and aren't correct, what the article fails to mention, etc). It's all very daunting. Especially since so many people who have been in the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and even the current members, tell different series of events. But Jeff Apter's Fornication: The Red Hot Chili Peppers Story is far more comprehensive and neutral than Scar Tissue, which is somewhat exaggerated, since, quite obviously, Kiedis is writing it. I'd also need your help since you're extremely experienced in writing band and genre articles, which focus on broader rather than specific issues. Plus, the page is plagued with unregistered/newly registered vandals who continually disrupt progress. I'd need CloudNine's help there. NSR77 TC 01:58, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
I hope to finish writing his bio by tomorrow. Grim will copyedit and do as he pleases with it. I'll hand it over to you, which I assume will be followed by a GA nomination. At first I didn't really want to go to FA with Flea, but that's changed, so Grim and I will take a while writing a "Music Style" section, which I'm hoping isn't as extensive and constantly changing as Frusciante's. That'll be followed by an FAC. Just wondering: how's Joy Division going?
I think it's a very high quality article. I'm still shocked that it failed GAN. I didn't really follow it that much, though; why was it inevitably failed? NSR77 TC 04:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Take it to GAR. It will yield a result faster than another GA nomination. But, I know you want to try and get it promoted by the end of the year so you may be aiming to just take it to FAC immediately. I think it's ready, and very comprehensive. NSR77 TC 04:28, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to take a look at Flea whenever you have some spare time. I managed to dig up an awesome picture of him and Kurt from 1992 when the Chili Peppers were on tour with Nirvana. NSR77 TC 02:22, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, no problem. Apter mentions it briefly. Where did you find that piece of information? I would rather use more sources than just the book. NSR77 TC 02:36, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, I have noticed that. Grim and I still have a lot to add (all the movies he's been in, a few random incidents, a Music Style section, etc.) so hopefully by FAC time, whenever that is, the article will look even better. NSR77 TC 16:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
God, Trainspotting is a fantastic film. NSR77 TC 20:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I saw it several years ago (when I used to do a whole bunch of shit) and it really spoke to me. Thanks for reminding me about the Rolling Stone article. I actually have that issue and can't believe I didn't use it. There's a bunch of tiny things that still need to be added to the article. R.E.M is your next project? NSR77 TC 00:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Heh, I like the way you worded R.E.M.'s FAC introduction. I personally think you have done some better work, like Joy Division. Also, I'm starting to like the idea of working on Red Hot Chili Peppers more and more, so that might be my next project instead of "Under the Bridge" or Stadium Arcadium. I'm not sure why you're interested in the article being worked on, though I can guess its because you want most of the top Alt rock artists and or topics featured. You don't really come across as someone who likes the Chili Peppers much, heh. Finally, as input for Mellon Collie: remove the 'Outtakes' section; it's really unnecessary and, for the most part, trivial. NSR77 TC 21:07, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I intend to, but lately I've been pretty tired from some excessive partying due to College break, hence my lower-than-average recent contributions. I have a personal question to ask (feel free not to answer). Your editing pattern is consistent with someone who lives in Australia, but your userpage says you're from California so I'm really not sure. I go to school in California, though I'm back in NY for break, and whenever I'm online you usually aren't. So, quite simply, what country or state do you live in? NSR77 TC 23:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey, sorry for not reviewing R.E.M. yet. I hope to by the middle of the week. It's pretty much got my support and I only have a few concerns. NSR77 TC 02:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Opinion wanted

I'd like you opinion here on whether "umbrella term" should be on the template. Inhumer (talk) 05:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Loveless

Illness has prevented me going to the library, but I'm hoping to get there before the end of Jan. I don't recall MM doind stars, I'm sure that was just NME. I'll check when I hit the library. Hiding T 14:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Wilco article

Hi Wesley, You reverted my edits to the lede of Wilco. Wikipedia policy is that reverting is a serious measure, to be mainly used to combat vandalism. As well, other editors are allowed to edit articles, even if it is your favourite article...as the tagline goes, " If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly...by others, do not submit it." I have been working on a lot of ledes lately, and there are two trends. Some are super-super short ("Band X was formed in 1999. They released 3 albums"), and some are too long.Nazamo (talk) 17:23, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I'm not sure if you read my letter to you, or took note of the Wikipedia rules outlined on the Wikipedia website. Just to repeat, them, the rules say not to revert good fait edits "unless, and only unless, you as an editor possess firm, substantive, and objective proof to the contrary. Mere disagreement is not such proof." So based on the Wikipedia rules, you must show firm, substantive, and objective proof that the added two words ("root rock") are inappropriate. Since they are sourced from a music reference, I suppose he could show that several other prominent music references argue that Uncle Tupelo are NOT a roots rock band, which would make the AMG cite problematic. But failing that, it is a sourced, factual addition..................................................................If it was a lengthy sentence about how Uncle Tupelo is a roots rock band, you could argue that the sentence makes the lede too long. But it is two words! You removed it again, but instead of proposing objective proof why the term "roots rock" cannot be in the article lede, you pose a rhetorical question: " Why is it important that "roots rock" is in the first sentence?" and then give your reason for removing it: "It's not necessary."......................Nazamo (talk) 14:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Pixies

Nice. I'm definitely going to restart work on Kim Deal soon (and I plan to start the Pixies reunion tour article soon), so the magazine will prove helpful with both. CloudNine (talk) 19:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. I've e-mailed my address. CloudNine (talk) 12:14, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Great. I've just scrolled through the project's reference list; would you mind sending a copy of the analysis of "Could You Be the One?" from Rock Music Styles: A History? (if it is any good) At the very least it should be an interesting read. Let me know if you'd like anything photocopied. (The Story of Grunge might serve a use). CloudNine (talk) 12:33, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Much appreciated. Sent back an e-mail as well. CloudNine (talk) 18:32, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Sound of the Beast

By Ian Christie. Do you happen to own this book by any chance? I think the Metallica article could use a bigger variety book/magazine sources M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The reason i brought it up is because on the talk page someone remembered the book contains information about early Metallica, how they got their name, how Mustaine joined etc. If a credible book source is used several times in the article it will make the article more credible and people won't object on the FAC. Whenever you get some spare time, could you please add a few references using the book? It will be greatly appreciated otherwise if you are busy i fully understand. M3tal H3ad (talk) 05:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for that, greatly appreciated M3tal H3ad (talk) 10:35, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I'll go through the nytimes archive again and the other one you said to look through and review all the sources to remove any "dodgy" ones, and acknowledge material available as you said. The only thing the article is missing is when Metallica sued Elektra Records, or something along those lines, I'll see what i can dig up. M3tal H3ad (talk) 11:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Deftones

Hiya Wes, how goes it? I'm busy improving Deftones at the moment and wondered if you'd whiz by the talk page and assign it an importance for the alternative wikiproject? I'm just not sure myself where they would fall. - Phorque (talk) 12:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Franz Ferdinand Genre etc.

You have a valid point that 'Rhapsody online' may not be a valid source, but there are few more respected sources than BBC and Guardian. What do you think? Personally, I don't think the band are either Post Punk or Post Punk Revival, coming from a UK perspective. PPR seems to be a label that is applied more liberally stateside. Best wishes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wardroad (talk • contribs) 17:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Batman

Thanks for dropping that in. I figured the sourcing was good, but I didn't want to stick my neck out with the issue given the nature of the debate so far. I'm looking to archive the talk page after Christmas in the hope it might move things on. Hiding T 17:46, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


Please fix Liam Gallagher's page

Hey, you did a great job cleaning up Oasis's page, please help with Liam's page too. Writer1400 (talk) 22:47, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for the barnstar - it was greatly appreciated. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 22:55, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

RE: Query

I just got home to find my sister watching Hairspray. I'll definitely watch it when she's done. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 03:01, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Just finished watching it, thanks. I'm thinking about restarting work on Adore. I was still pretty new when I started work on it and I think it could be better written and organized then it is now. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 21:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Yay! Congrats to you and Ceoil for literally 99.9% of the whole thing. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 00:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I can't start anything today, because my family's driving home from Arizona and I won't have internet for most of the day. But I should be able to tomorrow. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 13:56, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

In Utero, Ten, or Definitely Maybe. I'm most prepared to do the first two, but I'd like to work on the Oasis album just as much. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 14:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. I can work on stuff like chart positions and legacy for Definitely Maybe that can be found on the internet, but I'll work all-around on In Utero because I've got the book. BTW, I think I'll also work a bit on the song articles related to IU; "Scentless Apprentice" in particular would be fairly easy to turn into a GA. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 18:49, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Peer review/Hybrid Theory

Hi there! LuciferMorgan recommended you as one of the users to review the article Hybrid Theory which is currently undergoing a second peer review and might soon become a featured article. With your help and scrutiny on the article, that goal might just become true. If there is anything, please reply on my talk page. Thanks! (SUDUSER)85 06:39, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Talking Heads

I've always been under the impression that the band Talking Heads, are alternative rock—or at least "proto-alternative", if you will. Their style of music surely fits this category, and they've had quite a large influence on many alternative bands; as well as the genre as a whole. Do you have an opinion on this issue, or know of any sources that describe them as alternative? Grim (talk) 00:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

That's interesting. I always viewed "New Wave" music as being much more synthetic than the Talking Heads (i.e. Duran Duran or The Cars), but I guess there's much more to it than that. I don't really know a whole lot about New Wave I guess. Thanks for clearing that up for me. By the way, I'm a huge Television fan. Tom Verlaine is a genius. Grim (talk) 03:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Wire

As much as I like the guy, this cannot be compared to this. Ceoil (talk) 02:13, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

what Jesus would have wanted - I'm loath to second guess Jesus, but I think you brought the right books with you. Let me know when you are ready for a ce, and i'll lend a hand. Ceoil (talk) 02:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Random. Ceoil (talk) 20:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Jesus, I haven't heard that in years. There was a time, when I was young and stupid, that sheer heart attack was my favourite album of aaaalllll timeeee. Listened to it again today after your link, and well its soo soo great. Ceoil (talk) 19:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Im so pissed off with betacommand, its just not funny. Content vs janitors? When we are disrespted with templates like this, I feel, angry, hurt, used. Tindersticks time, I guess. Ceoil (talk) 01:28, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I've expressed my dissatisfaction with this block at the admin's talk page. If you have any thoughts you'd like to express about Ceoil's block, then feel free to also give your thoughts at that admin's talk page. LuciferMorgan (talk) 11:58, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Is that beer still on offer? Its back to the cocteau twins for me bty! Life is too short for the Tinersticks! Have a good christmas...Ceoil (talk) 23:50, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier

I really feel your condensing of the Black Dossier article goes far beyond the Summary style recommendations, I have posted a message to the discussion section of this article asking for a vote on the matter 89.101.242.183 (talk) 23:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of Bad Brains as influence on grunge page

I seriously disagree with Bad Brains being removed as an influence. You say it isn't sound? Expand, explain more clearly? If you've heard their records, or know about the influence they had, I'm surprised you would remove them as an influence.--128.59.143.41 (talk) 10:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Has nothing to do with the article? The article mentions everyone from Gang of Four to the Pixies, from Redd Kross to Dino Jr as an influence. I don't see why you are making an exception to Bad Brains... I think you have to do better than that. But I will fix it, so that it fits better.--24.238.91.82 (talk) 17:03, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I trimmed it down, tried to make it fit better. I hope this is an acceptable compromise, that both keeps the flow of the article and adds, rather than detracts from it.--24.238.91.82 (talk) 17:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Comic book refined to American comic book on Earth-Two article

Hi, I noticed you reverted my edit on the Earth Two article saying that it was unecessary. I have to say, I disagree. I'll refer to this from comic book:


Since the term comic book means something different in Britain, and probably in Japan as well. It seems appropriate to link to the proper article. In this case since the article deals with an aspect of super-hero comics, the American comic book article seems to be the better of the two options. Stephen Day (talk) 03:52, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Once again I have to say I respectfully disagree. The American comic book article is as much about the medium as the comic book article is. Earth-Two exists specifically in the American comic book medium and not in the comic book medium in general. Stephen Day (talk) 05:49, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I have to say, I still prefer to link to American comic book as it still seems more accurate, but you're right that the needs of the uniformed reader superseed in this matter. I just wish I could think of a way to word things to allow both links. That would be the best solution I think.
You wouldn't happen to have ideas about that would you. Stephen Day (talk) 06:45, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Loaded

Gimme a few minutes. And you are welcome to use that thing any time. Creation records time again! Ceoil (talk) 11:14, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Bob had a very close but strange and complicated relationship with mcgee, and then there is Throb. Could be a v funny article. Ceoil (talk) 11:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Fuck. My copy is a mp4, and I cant convert it to ogg. Need to find some software. Ceoil (talk) 11:18, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Don't hold your breath. That man has promised so much for so long, and I'm growing old waiting for him. But, but but, but its worth it...I think I can change him. Ceoil (talk) 12:05, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Today was brought to you by VU: What goes on. Ceoil (talk) 12:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
"In December of 2000 Mojo magazine rated the tour as the second loudest in history.[41]" Ha ha, didn't spot that before. In history? I laughed out loud, how excellent. The fucking who?, eh. The loudest band in history. Ceoil (talk) 13:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
"Four more days and I'm taking out his ass"? That's in voilition of at least two wiki policies. Be warned, taking out KS could get you a 48 hr block. Ceoil (talk) 15:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Misc things

Got that Spin article in the post today; should prove helpful. Also, I've added a Musical style section to the Dinosaur Jr article; any particular thoughts on what song would best exemplify the Dinosaur style? CloudNine (talk) 11:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Thought so too. That Recommended album of the month sounds like a good idea; you may want to introduce the project to British indie through some choice albums (to counter the American focus here). CloudNine (talk) 10:27, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:BIAS in music articles

I would have to say that bias towards alternative rock articles is inevitable with the good work of this project that you're a major participant in. It's slightly ironic - in terms of Wikipedia rock articles, quality non-alternative rock articles are the 'alternative' to the norm of great quality featured alt-rock articles. I like many genres of music beyond alternative rock and indeed rock in general, and I think it's sad that some non-alt-rock stuff is being neglected. For example, Traffic is a much poorer article than the individual Smashing Pumpkins song "Today", yet this shouldn't really be the case. Also see my failed GA nomination for Family (band) earlier this year on the talk page there. I'd like to go about making the article for a band like Traffic a featured article, but I wouldn't really know how. I've tried for FAC with King Crimson but couldn't proceed past GA. I also have concerns that an article I got to GA status earlier, Out of Reach, uses opinion pieces masquerading as reliable sources.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 09:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with that website. I'm not too sure about the idea of paying for a subscription, though. Also, I wasn't meaning to criticise the work you do with the alt-rock WikiProject because it's highly commendable. It's just unfortunate that some other areas of music are getting neglected, and it's my personal opinion that 'alternative' or 'indie' rock is almost the norm in terms of what young people like in rock music nowadays, making the term 'alternative' a misnomer. What is it an 'alternative' to? At the time when it was coined, maybe around the grunge era, it may have had real validity, but not now. But also, WP:NOT#SOAP, so I'll stop now and apologise for this rant.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 09:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit summaries and the preview button

Please use them both. - Dudesleeper · Talk 14:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Go to my preferences > editing > Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary and tick the box. You'll know be reminded to use an edit summary every time you edit.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 20:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
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