User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 6

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Grunge

Any thoughts on which samples we should add. Ceoil 13:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I have seen the work you did on both Loveless and JD. Don't do anything yet with loveless; I'll add Cavanagh soon enough, but am stuck in eastern european hotels and internet cafes for the moment. Ceoil 16:25, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Think 'hostel' but without the chainsaws or girls. Ceoil 16:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I have been monitoring the article every once and a while; everything looks great! NSR77 ^T_C 15:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Pearl Jam

Another complaint about the "most popular" statement; you may want to give your opinion (again). CloudNine 20:40, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music August 2007 Newsletter

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter Issue 5 - August 2007

"The amount of time it took to get Morrissey onstage was getting longer and longer. There was this great game he'd play of wanting to be asked 15 times if it had been 14 the night before. Johnny was like, 'Let's rock!' and Mozzer would be 'Well, somebody's gotta ask me another seven times.'" - Andy Rourke Project news Blood Sugar Sex Magik and Sky Blue Sky reached featured article status in the past month! Well done to the various WP:RHCP editors and Teemu08. We collaborated on Let It Be (Replacements album), Queens of the Stone Age, Dinosaur Jr, and Loveless (album) during the past month. During the month of August, Summerteeth, Anodyne (album), and The Make-Up were promoted to good article status.

New members Freaky4jesus32, Razorblade666, and Grim-Gym joined the alternative music fold during August. Editors User:WesleyDodds

You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated R Delivery Bot 00:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC) .

RE: Today

Thanks yourself; Couldn't have done it without you, CloudNine, and a few of the other Alt Music Wikiproject guys. --Brandt Luke Zorn 07:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

John Frusciante

Hey Wesley. NSR77 informed me that submitting an item for prose review is probably not the most effective way to get the prose looked at, and that I'm better off asking specific users for help. We're an inch away from submitting John Frusciante to FAC, but I'm acutely aware of the fact when the article's collaboration ended, you felt that it needed to be reworked for neutrality. Would you mind going over the article when you have a minute and making a few notes about what can be improved before we move to FAC? Don't feel obligated to work on the article yourself—posting your notes directly on my talk page is enough. I know you're busy, so—many thanks if you can find the time to help us out. Grim-Gym 22:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Haha yeah. I kind of knew you were, but I figured I'd light a fire under you by hitting your talk page. I've really done all I can with the article, so any help or nitpicks would be great. Thanks a bunch. Grim-Gym 22:36, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok cool. I just don't want to keep harassing you about it. As long as you're keeping it in mind, I can't complain. I would stil like to nominate it this weekend—barring something major that you think needs to be addressed. Just keep me updated. Thanks man. Grim-Gym 04:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I removed lo-fi (I'd been meaning to do that anyway, because john attacked the genre's concept). Got any other suggestions as to what should go? I'm pretty committed to keeping electronica and experimental rock up there, just so you know. Although Indie rock and funk-rock are both worthy of being in my eyes as well. Grim-Gym 04:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

No it can't, and that's a very good point. I'll remove it. Grim-Gym 04:59, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Advice?

Hey there. I'm a relatively new Wikipedia editor and I've been working on a few pages, most specifically the one for the band Army of Freshmen. I'd like to raise it up to Featured Article status. I think I've done pretty well with improving it (especially if you look at what it looked like before I got started with it!) but I think I'm to the point where I could use some expert input. Would you mind looking at it and letting me know what you think? Also, should I add it to Wiki Project Punk? The band identifies itself as pop punk. Thanks for your time! Chrissypan 16:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)Chrissypan

glastonbury 03

one two Ceoil 22:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

When I stop pricking around with my userpage I'll give you a hand. (Im just bored at the moment). Ceoil 20:36, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails FAC

I believe I have taken care of all of the issues you raised at the NIN FAC. A few exceptions being the Sharon Tate thing and the copyvio external links. I explain myself a bit concerning those at the FAC page. Anyways, if you have any more issues or feel I didn't completely address some of your previous comments please let me know. Drewcifer 06:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Since the NIN FAC has gotten pretty unwieldly, I hid some of your comments (namely the ones that I think have been addressed). If you feel like a particular comment that I've hidden hasn't been addressed, please feel free to take it out of the hide box. I just wanted to let you know that I hid the comments to make things manageable and not to discount all of your valid points. Thanks! Drewcifer 00:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

It depends

You'll be grand if you like anything post Psychocandy. Other than that, your in trouble. If I had 100 dollars (worth about 100 million euros in ireland), I'd buy an island, a few mercenaries and a plane, or...something. but i would not spend it on the mary chain. Ceoil 17:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I really like the tromp le monde version, but always found the cord change in the origional to be obvious and tacky. Ceoil 17:18, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Come over so. I'll clear out County Galway for you. For a few american cents a month, I make it real clean for you. Ceoil 17:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

"what is there to do in Ireland after I'm done with the sightseeing": Oh there is lots. You could go see Jason Byrne, Ed Byrne, Jimmy Carr, Dylan Moran, Dara Ó Briain, David McSavage, Pauline McLynn, Republic of Loose, Iarla Ó Lionáird (a neighbour of mine), Gavin Friday and so on. And talk utter rubbish in places like this downing black. It would be your own private county, so when you get bored of us slightly amusing and harmless pesants, you can just wave your handkerchief and dismiss everybody. Two times. Ceoil 17:37, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Bring dollars, though. You said you had dollars. Ceoil 17:41, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm the last person to get in the way of an editor and his copy of Still; but revisit, it well worth it. Lock the doors and start with the second movement. Ceoil 22:32, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Nirvana-related stuff

Thanks for the support on Nirvana discography; I'm pretty confidant that it'll make it through this time around. I had an idea today to create another Nirvana list like "List of Nirvana concert tours" in the vein of List of Kylie Minogue concert tours, but then realized that very few of Nirvana's tours had names. So then I thought to make "Lis of Nirvana concerts"; there are certainly a lot of resources available, but it would be a pretty difficult project and I was questioning whether I should do it or not in the first place. I was hoping I could get your advice on this matter. Also, I look forward to starting work on "Heart-Shaped Box", though I'll probably won't be able to start contributing on in a big way until Friday or Saturday due to school. --Brandt Luke Zorn 06:19, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I really need to get on The Smashing Pumpkins discography too, now that you mention them. I feel like I have way too many projects lining up and I need to prioritize them. But yeah, thanks. --Brandt Luke Zorn 06:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm all for it. I'm tired of seeing micropages on stuff like "Mrs. Butterworth" and "Token Eastern Song". Heck, I don't even know why stuff like "Montage of Heck" exists at all. Plus it would eliminate the songs that would be nearly impossible to progress beyond stub class, much less get to GA status. --Brandt Luke Zorn 06:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I reverted your edits to all the Nirvana song stubs you edited this morning. Please don't do stuff like this before consulting other Wikipedians. -- Floaterfluss ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

JF FAC

Thanks for all the great feedback. Just a question on the magazine reprinting: are the ones listed at Frusciante's official website acceptable? I assume they have received clearance to do such. Regards, NSR77 ^T_C 14:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I've converted all of the magazine articles that redirected to another website into simply the issue information. If you don't think the articles on Frusciante's official site are OK, then I'll have more work to do, but for now that matter is complete. On the lead concerns, I'll begin to lengthen it up now. Regards, NSR77 ^T_C 14:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey. I've been away for a few days—I went to Vegas to see the Pumpkins. I copyedited NSR's additions to the lead. Everything seems decent, unless you can think of something else that needs to be mentioned. Any input on the article's current state, especially the lead, would be awesome. Grim-Gym 04:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Nice work thus far on the Frusciante's lead section. It's much appreciated. On an unrelated note (I didn't want to create a new thread just for this), I'd love it if you weighed in on my proposition on the Zeitgeist talk page. I've proposed moving it from "Zeitgeist (The Smashing Pumpkins album)" to "Zeitgeist (Smashing Pumpkins album)". Whenever you feel like it. Grim-Gym 02:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

No

I dont like Oasis, I thought that was clear. Nice eg of Americans using irony though. Ceoil 23:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

BYT, What is you non partisan view of the ip Kevin Shield is not Irish argument. Ceoil 23:46, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

"The result was speedy closed, taken to RfD" Does this gibberish mean anything to you? Ceoil 00:14, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

WR:TFR, GTD, WP:XTFR, FYSNSIAS; WP:KMFNDsjfSJFLJKH Ceoil 01:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Sweet relief; I had tought you were going to call my bluff; per WR:FDLKNDBFLJ. Ceoil 01:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Very nice. More please. Ceoil 01:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Be carefull Dodds, not all of us grew up in LA; some of us are hicks, and for some of us Eldritch is a thing unto himself. We frear the sun, the moon, clouds, and Eldritch. Respect that. Ceoil 01:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

"California is a big state." I know what you mean; thoes fellas from Abolough; all bastards. I never liked the post floodlands SOM, but floodlands is still a great album. Ceoil 02:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh my. Ceoil 02:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Indie, innit. [1]. Ceoil 02:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant; never heard of that band before; but its up there with take the skinheads bowling and punk rock girl. Ceoil 02:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to admit I never heard the Rempacements before. More. Ceoil 02:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I carnt recomment Tribute to a Bus highly enough, steve albine's best; here is a small taste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvr-R3-hXn4. Ceoil 03:08, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

"when the book recounts the band's career up to Loveless they don't seem anything but Irish"

Have you ever heard an interview with Kevin Sheilds? "Thats right yeah, when we where recording Loveless like, your man alan magee was acting like a proper langer like; but sure thats record company people for you like; they do though dont they though". Tell me he's not a Paddy. I dumped a few mps's [2] here, bty. Corks finest isn't anything cover band! Ceoil 13:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I done a list, but the order of the last 3 troubles me. Ceoil 08:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Am, I'm expecting a list from you too, boy. Ceoil 08:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Mmm; forgot about Cocteau Twins and Ride. It'll have to be top 22 fav bands now. BTY, what the hell time is it in LA now? Your up very early/late. Ceoil 08:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

1.44am isn't that bad; you'll be grand tomorrow. I also have a weakness for Scissor Sisters that i'm slow to admit in a list. Camp? yes, but...great.Ceoil 08:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't get me started on Frankie. I came of age when they were no1 in IRL for 100 weeks. A great band full stop. Have you heard their version of "Born to Run"? Oh boy. Ceoil 08:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Italian friend - she - Sounds good. Ceoil 09:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

When I went to visit her - "I bought"; "I read"? Dude. Ceoil 09:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Being a gentlemann will only get you so far. Me, I'm a prick; no apologies. Now that I think about it? pah. Stop thinking. Ceoil 09:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, there's that too. This msg was brought to you by Mean Red Spiders "Yes, I Call". Top 20 songs would be more intersting? Ceoil 09:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm going trough I tunes trying to whittle it down, but I agree it can't be done. It shifts. Ceoil 09:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The link is great, thanks. Maybe "bring on the dancing horses" is their finest moment; but I love the early 80s liverpool stuff. Dead or alive? Have you read Julian Cope's books? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceoil (talk • contribs) 10:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Part of being European is laughing at yer like of Depeche Mode. I grant that 'just cant get enough' (have you heard Nouvelle vague's version) is great, but seriously? They are langers. Buy all things Cope bty. Ceoil 10:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

And 18th Dye's Tribute to a Bus, is just great. Ceoil 10:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Go back; its better than the origional. Ceoil 10:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sisters: Walk way, Marian (version), Lucretia My Reflection, Driven Like The Snow; Feilds: Moonchild, Celebrate; Souxi: Happy house; maybe all of Kaleidoscope. Ceoil 11:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Top tunes. hard; came up with five

• God only knows (beach boys)
• Age of love (AOL)
• Dalliance (wedding present)
• Poolhouse blue (18th dye)
• Winter (fall)
• She's lost control (JD)
• i don't believe in you (talk talk)
• Hoppipola (Sigur Ros)
• I feel love (Donna Summer)
• Going Back to Harlan (Emmylou Harris)
• Blue (Lucinda Williams)
• Ceoil 12:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

....Still waiting. You like music and songs, right.

Ceoil 19:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Ref format at The Smashing Pumpkins

Hey Wes. I noticed that The Smashing Pumpkins article footnotes use both the {{cite}} template, and the proper citation format without utilizing the template. I'd just like to ask, did you encounter any discussion about that when it came to promoting the article to good or FA status? I've got Billy Talent on a GA hold right now, and the guy has stated I need to use the template. Comments? Cheers. -- Reaper X 04:59, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks alot Wes! I really appreciate your guidance man. -- Reaper X 06:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Favor

Within the week, yes. Although I have distaste for Oasis, I owe you one for Frusciante. NSR77 ^T_C 19:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, I hate to ask but could you possibly take a look at John Frusciante discography? Grim-Gym has been the only reviewer as of yet and I would appreciate any sort of feedback. Regards, NSR77 ^T_C 19:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I did some reference formatting and cleanup on the Gallagher article today, though I wanted to get some good rewriting in for One Hot Minute. I'll continue with more formatting in the next few days. NSR77 ^T_C 22:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Your edit to A Streetcar Named Marge

This was not actually a mistake. Strunk and White's Elements of Style says, "Omit initial A or The from titles when you place the possessive before them" (Fourth Edition, pg. 38). It's possible that Wikipedia's style guidelines say something different -and if so, please point me to the page where they do- but I did leave out the A on purpose. Zagalejo^^^ 19:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

South of Heaven

Do you reckon this article would pass at FAC? It's rather short in my opinion, although the album it covers is minor and there's been little discussion on it - most discussion focuses on Reign in Blood. Do you think it'd be worth trying to FAC this one, or do you deem it to be a waste of time due to its length? LuciferMorgan 10:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Pixies

Thanks for the link; didn't know a copy was available online (although Kim Clark and Mr. Francis? really?) Some more of the Dü. CloudNine 12:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Talking of archives, I might subscribe to Rocksbackpages.com (no Spin though). Any thoughts? CloudNine 22:17, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

NIN FAC (again)

Hey, so after a good long while (11 days!) of trying to change the NIN article based on your most recent suggestions, I've kinda hit a brick wall. I commented on the NIN FAC, so I was hoping you could take a look. It might be easier to take a look at the diff, so you don't have to wade through it all. Thanks for helping us out so much, and please let me know if I'm totally off the mark or missing the point with my comments. Drewcifer 10:02, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I don't have any access to such articles. I'll see about finding some online versions. Hopefully someone else can help out in that department. Drewcifer 12:04, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Watchmen

Took a stab at film section. Included cast and Dave Gibbons' support of the film. Moved back development information. Feel it's not as important as film that's actually being made. Talk to Erik about the whole article. He has sub-pages and collected reliable sources. He may help you.

Good Rorschach impression? Alientraveller 10:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

How do you do, sir? Feel free to use any of the sources on my sub-pages. Take look at the "draft" sub-page -- I believe that the green sections are what seemed to be original research, and red sections are content that depend on disputable sources. I started work on a new draft at the "revision" sub-page (starting over, basically), but work has been slow -- other priorities pop up. Anyway, let me know what you think! —Erik (talk • contrib) - 11:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Nice work with making some headway with the article. My plan was basically to provide a completed revised draft in my subpage during the FAR process to see if people would be agreeable to its implementation, that way there wouldn't be pressure to research heavily in such a short interval. Did you take a look at the draft subpage? If so, do you agree that the red-colored text is susceptible? For example, the sentence "Juvenal was credited with exposing the vice of Roman society through his satires" originally implies that Moore was trying to be satirical. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter -- it's not an authoritative voice making that connection. I mainly work with film articles, and I was actually going to try improving Kingdom Come (comic book) using Watchmen as the model, then I saw how awful Watchmen was. Since I consider the latter the more valuable graphic novel, I shifted focus and created the subpages that you see. Haven't made leeway in some time, though. Let me know what you intend for the article, what your thought process is and all. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I was actually concerned about the Watchmen subpages, which tend to violate WP:PLOT, especially an article like Captain Metropolis, which has virtually no real-world context. I'm not so sure if the major characters are entitled to their own articles, which are extended plot and character summaries. That's why I was starting out with real-world context about the characters in my revision -- if it got to the point of being too long, it could be spun off per WP:SS. Right now, though, the pages seem to be fancruft. From what I've read in the academic studies that I have, the perceived themes tend to intertwine, leading me to think that a "Critical analysis" section at Watchmen is most suitable. Additionally, I am not particularly favorable of the article's "Allusions to iconography, art, and history" section -- it strikes me as trivial, listing all the "cool little things" that pop up in the article with no real-world relevance attached. Actually, there may be some real-world relevance with Kitty Genovese in one of the academic studies, and that could be incorporated elsewhere in the article. Otherwise, I don't see much value in this particular section. In regard to the FAR, I am not in a hurry at all. Your best resources would probably include books about Alan Moore -- I was not able to see the pages inside these books at a site like Amazon.com, so there may be a lot of content. I tried my best to specify passages in the books that I did find relevant. Just not sure if I'd be able to get my hands on them easily through the library. What's your thought on a timeline for revising this? My contributions rather fluctuate these days with my academic priorities, so let me know what you have in mind.

Also, I must decline the offer to work on Batman (1989 film) with you -- I just have too many projects on my plate, such as finally advancing Fight Club (film) to FA status, improving recent films, improving some older films like The Shawshank Redemption, et cetera. Not to mention that Alientraveller, Bignole, and I are looking to get Batman Begins to FA status (see talk page). However, I would be able to provide some references myself to help with the 1989 film article. Just that direct contribution is just a promise I can't make right now. Do feel free to ask me to take a look at something, though! I'd be glad to help with resources and sharing of opinions over the article's structure and content. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:19, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide the ISBN for the Wright book so I can see what you mean? I would be fine with character pages if there is sufficient real-world context -- my pet peeve is the structure of articles like these. Actually, there has been some critical analysis of Dr. Manhattan and Adrian Veidt while downplaying Rorschach's significance because while Rorschach is black and white in his motives, there is more to explore in the others' acts and decisions -- acceptance of the crime for the greater good, basically. By the way, I cannot seem to click [edit] on this section -- I have to edit the whole article to add a comment. Any idea why this would be the case? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 01:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Geesh! If we can't cite The New York Times, I guess it's time to close the book on Wikipedia. :-P I'd welcome a NYT citation, clearly. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Pulp PR

Here 'tis: Wikipedia:Peer review#Pulp Fiction (film)—DCGeist 18:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant. Thanks for the good news.—DCGeist 06:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Radio Free Europe (song) and Radio Free Europe (Hib-Tone version)

Any thoughts on merging the two? Should the Hib-Tone version be merged with the IRS one or vice-versa? CloudNine 08:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

COTW

Updated. I was also thinking of nominating Nevermind; seems to happen a lot with this COTW. CloudNine 08:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Started; I'm wondering if I should mention that quote by Guy Picciotto in the epilogue. CloudNine 09:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that would be fine; "Lounge Act" doesn't have a huge amount of content either. I'm moving into halls today, so I won't be able to help as much as I would like on the COTW (or on Wikipedia for that matter). CloudNine 09:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Fall Out Boy

I really fail to see how they classify as alternative rock. They're crap - for lack of a better term - and don't follow the usual style of their fellow alt rockers.

And I know their genre is disputed (coughemocough), but I think we can safely say they're not alternative. Your thoughts? --_{King of the Wontons} | _{lol wut?} | _{Oh noes! Vandals!} 06:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, okay... Let's pretend for a minute that I don't hate them with an undying passion. I still wouldn't call them alternative rock. Yes, they follow the basic formula (guitar - base - drums), but they don't sound like an alternative rock band... They're waaaaay too mainstream, and really, there's nothing in them that makes a band "alternative". From what I've heard of them (which, unfortunately, is a lot), they're either pop-punk or pop rock. Not alternative. --_{King of the Wontons} | _{lol wut?} | _{Oh noes! Vandals!} 06:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I know; I was going to go to Allmusic and source it but just never got around to it. And I do agree that "alternative rock" is nothing more than an umbrella term, but still. There is a certain "style" (albeit a very general one) to alternative rock bands. --_{King of the Wontons} | _{lol wut?} | _{Oh noes! Vandals!} 17:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Meetup in Minneapolis

---

Minnesota Meetup

Sunday, 2007-10-07, 1:00 p.m. (13:00)
Pracna on Main
117 Main SE, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Map

Please pass this on! RSVP here.

---

Spam delivered by -Susanlesch 15:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: article

Thanks for the information; I reckon I'll go out and get a copy of that article. Since User:R is inactive at the moment, we should find some other method of posting the newsletter. Any ideas? Xihix is a good bet, as he uses AWB quite often. CloudNine 19:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Cheers for the sources. (I should really get a copy of that Pixies DVD). The UK Surf version apparently appeared as a B-side on "Here Comes Your Man", so I didn't include it (to keep it to songs that didn't appear on an official Pixies release). CloudNine 10:30, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok. They do appear on a lot of compilations, so I suspect I'll have to concentrate on that section. CloudNine 10:37, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Sweet

It dont get much better than that. My first encounter with indie innit was in 1989 when I saw a snub tv episode that had fugazi 'suggestion', house of love 'man to child', wedding present 'why are you being so reasonable now', stone roses 'sugar spun sister' and spaceman 3 'revolution'. The following week they had an interview with a very stoned a mcgee, the fall, ride, and the pixies. And thats basically what i listen to now. I gave you links before, but here they are again.[3], [4], [5], [6]. Control will be in cork in 3 weeks. Ceoil 12:44, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

May god forgive me, but how hot is kim deal's wolly red jumper. Ceoil 12:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[7], but the Wire orgional is 'way way better. Ceoil 10:50, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Ha! Being a goth is noting to be ashamed of, sure it isn't? Ceoil 10:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Was reading those articles you linked, and you know, Wire are the only band that bridge the early 1980s and now. They are better than ever, imo; "The agfers of kodack"[8] is some tune. If you don't know it, stop everything. go to a shop. buy it. Now. Ceoil 12:01, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

"got up and danced and everything". Searched youtube for WesleyDodds + danced and everything. Luckly for you, nothing. Never smile, never dance. Ceoil 19:09, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I saw the Pixies when they supported the chilly peppers in dublin in 2004. They were fgnk brilliant, and I had the added bonus of walking out half ways through the opening minutes of the chilly's first 'song'. Ceoil 20:19, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

"My introduction to the genre is murkier and far more mundane". I stoped listening to indie c. 1990 for a few yrs; after that it was all about acid house and fairy dust for me. I was dragged to see a 150 people capacity sonic youth gig in 1990, and who was playing support but nirvana. I distintly remember standing there, in seventeen inch flares and a tulip tank top, thinking "what the fuck guys; ever heard of E?" Ceoil 20:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The first album is better than JD and the fall put together, imo. Ceoil 22:12, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Both the Charlatans and blur cropped up in 1990; the most charatible sumation I've seen so far for those 'people', is from Mogawi-Blur: are Shite. I like Happy Mondays, quite a bit, and the four-song sequence you mention I gotta have. Did you get that Wire song, like I told you to, bty. Ceoil 22:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music September 2007 Newsletter

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter Issue 6 - September 2007

"It's funny; recently I've started to notice people's impersonations of me, and it's basically like a hyperactive child. I'm a big fucking spaz."- Dave Grohl Project news "Today", Wilco, Pearl Jam, John Frusciante and Audioslave reached featured article status in the past month! Well done to Brandt Luke Zorn, Teemu08, the various Pearl Jam editors, NSR77, Grim-Gym and Gocsa respectively. The discographies of The Make-Up, Neutral Milk Hotel, Nirvana, Lightning Bolt, The Breeders and John Frusciante all reached featured list status during the past month; a record month. Well done to Drewcifer3000, Brandt Luke Zorn (who both wrote two featured lists!) CloudNine, NSR77 and Grim-Gym. Blood Sugar Sex Magik was featured on the Main Page on September 24. We collaborated on Nirvana (band), Jimmy Chamberlin, Noel Gallagher and Courtney Love during the past month. During the month of September, Dream Days at the Hotel Existence, Era Vulgaris (album), Feeder (band), Harry and the Potters, "I Don't Remember", Kicking Television: Live in Chicago, Powderfinger, "Starlight" (song)" and Weezer (1994 album) were all promoted to good article status, a total of nine articles!

New members User:Dihydrogen Monoxide and User:Connorhalsell joined the alternative music fold during September. Editors User:CloudNine

You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated Xihix 23:12, 6 October 2007 (UTC) .

RE: Pumpkins Discography

The Pumpkins are just too damned prolific.

• The "1979" remix single is called "1979: Mixes" ([9]). "The End Is the Beginning Is the End" remix single is called "The End Is the Beginning Is the End (The Remixes)" ([10], although I could have sworn it was called "The Beginning is the End is the Beginning"). I'm not sure about "Perfect"; maybe a note like "(remix single)" should be put beside it.
• For this, I suppose the format could be small in parentheses next to the A-side, e.g. "Today" (Japanese 7").
• I think that this should just be included in the singles table with a note like "Daughter has.

--Brandt Luke Zorn 03:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Image

Done. It's now here. CloudNine 12:16, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

This has to stop

Seriously, we're warring for no reason. Batman is a superhero, he's automatically a fictional character so I don't see the need for "he is a fictional comic book superhero". Why are you intent on keeping this? If it's obvious that it's redundant then it doesn't need discussion as well. This entire page revert you do upsets me most; if you don't agree with one or two changes I did, please do not revert every single thing to save yourself the trouble of doing some work manually. It could be seen as disruptive IMO. Before you for no reason decide to revert my changes on Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/exemplars let's discuss: what is it exactly that you didn't agree with what I did on Batman and on the current exemplar (I'm pretty sure it wasn't everything for the two)? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Administrators' noticeboard complaint against us

Thuranx brought this to my attention. Sesshomaru decided that one day wasn't long enough to try to work things out and has told on us: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Regarding_users_WesleyDodds.2C_Doczilla_and_J_Greb --Doczilla (talk • contribs) 01:13, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Indie Music

Since the alt music project has effectively replaced the indie one, I'll redirect the indie page to the alternative one for now. CloudNine 07:30, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Some ideas

"Pepper" by the Butthole Surfers, "Oh Sweet Nuthin'" by the Velvet Underground, "Bam Thwok" by the Pixies. (RATM's "How I Could Just Kill A Man" is possibly the best cover song I've heard.) CloudNine 11:07, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

This debate

If you have ninga skills; let rip. Ceoil 02:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

spelling vs formatting?

Hi. Not a silly question at all, but I'm finding it hard to grasp your distinctions. You asked:

Why is there standarized use of punctuation, dashes, quotation marks, etc. but no such adoption of a standarized approach to spelling? A cursory glance at American and British news sites finds that while approaches to certain punctuation in quotes varies, commas that separate clauses are by consensus in quotes. Has this been considered in formulating the guidelines? I don't intend to bug you, I'm just genuinely curious about these things now. Thanks.

In particular, can you be clearer about (1) "approaches to certain punctuation in quotes varies" (within the quotes? between Br and Am texts? within each variety of English?), and (2) "commas that separate clauses are by consensus in quotes" (no idea what this means, sorry)?

I may not answer immediately—working today. Tony (talk) 03:56, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Delinking Virgin Records

Please explain how delinking the multiple entries of Virgin Records in The Smashing Pumpkins improves the readability of the chart. It servers only two purposes, 1) to try to comply with the letter of the rule regarding duplicate links and 2) to make Virgin Records appear to be the most important Record label as the eye is automatically drawn to the black type when everything else in the text is blue links. It defeats the purpose of the rule.

"Remember, the purpose of links is to direct the reader to a new spot at the point(s) where the reader is most likely to take a temporary detour due to needing more information;"

In the case of this chart, since every thing is link except for 3 entires, just the opposite happens. The reader is directed to the spot of the 3 unlink entries. This is a case when following the rule to the letter actually defeats the purpose of the rule. Note this is posted here as you are the one who reverted my change. It is also posted on the article talk page as well. Dbiel ^(Talk) 20:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Repeatedly linking Virgin Records does not improve the look of the article, and it's also pointless. If you're looking at the table, it's able to fit entirely in one's screen and all you need is one link; the other's become redundant. Multiple linking also does no constitute importance of a subject. WesleyDodds 21:29, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I do not know if I am off base or if you are missing my point. There is nothing wrong with the chart except for the fact that the limited use of black type draws one attention to the back type rather than to the chart as a whole. The chart is technically overlinked when you look at the 10% rule. But that rule just does not make sense in this case. The whole issue of overlinking has to due with readability and in this case it just does not apply, just as the 10% rule does not apply. Dbiel ^(Talk) 22:58, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Not sure why you chose to have this discussion on the article talk page rather than here, but that is unimportant. I have agreed in terms of consensus on the subject, but not in terms of Guidelines. But as you said on the article talk page, "You and I don't agree but I don't see either of us changing our opinions any time soon." Therefore I am bringing this discussion to a close. I have moved the discussion from the article talk page to a separate sub page as it has become a distraction to the article itself. Thank you for your patience and professional manor throughout this discussion. You are a definite asset to Wikipedia. Dbiel ^(Talk) 12:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Understood

I completely understand. There are times when the amount of bickering that goes on among Wikipedians boggles the mind. Maybe I'm misreading something, but it sure looks to me like tensions have been a little higher than usual this week. So keep your skull away from the bricks it has been banging, edit something else you can enjoy for a bit, and come back with fresh perspective. You do outstanding work. About a year ago, I gave you a Comics Star and made the comment that you deserved two. I still think so. Funny thing, the previous star had slipped my mind until after I recently gave you a second one. Without realizing it, I gave you the two stars I'd mentioned back then. Doczilla 05:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Alt-rök

First off, I think it's in really good shape. Defining alternative rock is, if anything, even more tortuous than my own conceptual bête noire, um...film noir, and I'm really impressed with the lede at this point. (I'm also amused at myself over how it still makes me crazy to see alternative rock referred to as a "genre," when I endlessly make fun of the pedants who noodle over whether film noir constitutes a "genre" or something else. Assuming normal language, mellow people--yes, genre, of course.)

Was going to offer some bullet points (I put on Archers of Loaf's The Speed of Cattle B-side comp to accompany this effort), but conceptually nothing has mortally offended me. Have done some ce'ing, but I feel the wine here's about to catch up with me, so I'll take a break and return tomorrow night. Maybe I'll have a bullet--or at least some loose shot--at that point. Best, Dan.—DCGeist 08:00, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

FF

Thanks for the note I'll get the ball rolling later today. (Emperor 13:16, 17 October 2007 (UTC))

I got things started: WP:CMC/ID. I'll run through them all and give my thoughts (I've started sections on all the talk pages) but will probably be focusing on From Hell as I've got quite a few sources to integrate there and will want to freshen up on them too. (Emperor 03:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC))

Good finds. I wonder if it is worth noting down resources like that which we have access to and people could ask for clarification on points if need be - a bit like a Project-based version of WP:WRE. (Emperor 04:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC))

Great - I don't see any reason we can't get something like that started asap here. Would you also be interested in also starting a quick tutorial so that everyone can get up to speed? (Emperor 11:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC))

Article

Could you tell me the issue # and date information? I'll see if I can try to recover it somewhere over the internet. Thank you and awesome find! NSR77 ^T_C 10:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, no problem. Frusciante is quite fond of Joy Division so it should not be too hard. NSR77 ^T_C 16:01, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks. It was actually the July 2004 issue and I have ordered it. Either way I'm grateful. So far I haven't been able to find much of what Frusciante thinks of Joy Division, other then the fact that he lists them as a remotely substantial influence on his guitar playing. You could incorporate that into a "Legacy" or "Later influences" section, I assume. NSR77 ^T_C 21:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Amazing. Grim and I can certainly use that in our current project Niandra Lades and Usually Just a T-Shirt. Thanks! NSR77 ^T_C 20:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Fugazi (band)

Currently focusing on this article at the moment. The first para of the Early history section needs to be rewritten; do you mind starting things off there? Also, what song samples should we have? ("Waiting Room" will be one of them). CloudNine 11:52, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I'd move it to List of Smashing Pumpkins awards and model it after List of Powderfinger awards. CloudNine 09:55, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

lOOsinG conTROLLLL LooSINgcctolrol

Read the Joy Division page this morning, and well, very nice work. Its very healthy and you should move to mainspace and go through the stages towards fa. Ceoil 10:11, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Still waiting. Ceoil 09:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

To move the frigging article to mainspace and nom for GA. Are you thick or what. Ceoil 10:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Nazi fixation?? I don't think so. They were 19, and trying to provoke. How heavy is this, bty. I'm not being wierd, both dudes are straight, but the tunes is reaaaalllly good. Ceoil 10:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

You don't have to comment on the FAC, but comment from an insightful guy on talk would be just great. I just pulled an all-nighter; I'll be a sorry boy on monday; but there is a reason. Ceoil 10:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

my head hurts. i crashed, and it's not pretty. a few sunday morning type links would be nice. Ceoil 14:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Ferry, and to lesser extent Roxy Music, are doing it for me this morning. Ceoil 17:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

We talked about top 20 favourite songs a few weeks back; this will always be no.1 [11]. Ceoil 18:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

"And isn't adding subtitles to Liz Frasier singing missing the point" - You know about Polish bird right. Ceoil 21:09, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Ridiculous but rewarding debate

The Doors were way better when Ian Astbury was fronting. Ceoil 10:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the word 'shit' (to paraphrase), but the rest of your statement is just wrong. Ceoil 11:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Have you seen the pixies tour dvd loudQUIETloud? I've been giggling for a week at albinis 'fuck 'em' joke (its mushroom season in ireland). Ceoil 11:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I saw that too and jesus christ it was embarrasing. Bono is some ejit, and it was very show biz. The tour doc is not like that at all, its very revealing, warts and all, and, well, great. Ceoil 11:23, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

"Somewhat snarky", yeah but in the words of steve albini, fuck 'em. Ceoil 11:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but you have probably noticed my edit history is full of half three in the morning broken promises. Ceoil 11:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

You old dog. I have a weakness for 1920s b/w birds, I have to admit. Ceoil 11:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Cat: Men attracted to thier grandmothers friends (but when they were 60yrs younger)? No, there is not, thankfully. There are specialist websites, I assume though; but have you seen the current generation of indie chicks. ;-) Ceoil 11:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant, you vocalised something dormant but long in my brain. Rool on the floor laughing! Ceoil 12:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link; control is in cork as from today....but im afraid to go and see it. what if its shi Ceoil 12:13, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Would this restore my crediability? In a funny sort of mood tonight. Ceoil 06:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant. You the man. Ceoil 06:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Somethings are best left silent. Ceoil 20:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

My diema is do I go out someone way better than me. Ceoil 21:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I assume you have this watchlisted. Ceoil 23:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Random. Ceoil 06:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Good for a laugh, indeed. I'm not going to see control until the dvd at this stage, but anybody that has seen it is full of praise. In other news, I'm delighted to find that its 1991 again; have you heard Young Galaxy. Ceoil 06:40, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Prefab Sprout, new wave?? Ceoil 07:46, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Listen to This Is Not A Love Song 5 times. Sounds like whale noises at the beginning, no? Ceoil 10:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Exceting that Dublin is dead. Ceoil 21:19, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Great song [12], though he looks a lot like Elliot Smith. Ceoil 06:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a my 10 favourite albums interview with the badly bearded Carlos Dengler in this months Uncut, surprisingly good taste for a man with a beard; Cranes, Górecki. Ceoil 06:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Ha, you got me. I repect you too much to stand here and tell you, in all seriousness, that I like early Inspiral carpets. Ceoil 09:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Freaky; I was listening to "This is the one" when you msg'd. Ceoil 09:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

And "Just live Heaven". Ceoil 09:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I think its finished, tbh. You should nominate for FAC, any remaining kinks can be ironed out during the process, though I think there are not many. Ceoil 09:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Amazing isn't it. Ceoil 09:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

This the best link so far, what a voice that girl has. Ceoil 10:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

He he, my taste has always been towards 'elfin'. You should get the albums proper, all their albums are great. Ceoil 10:05, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Just goes to show what a useless cn*t I am; all those promises. Cheer your self up with this, and this. Ceoil 10:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Me too dude; I just emailed friends and family with the link. Ceoil 10:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Excellent. See you sunday afternoon so. Ceoil 11:05, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you know how to align Blue Monday (New Order song) so the text doesn't start half way down. Its really bugging me. Ceoil 11:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Do me a favour and fix it. Ceoil 11:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Night. Ceoil 12:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm fairly seriously thinking about returning this charming man to the fac bear pit. what do you think. By the way, Roy Harper's origional version of "another day" is way way better than this mortal coils version. my ipod flicked to buzzcoks this morning; it been years - "tricky guitar solo!" - Joy. Ceoil 14:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Y34RZ3R0R3MIX3D

Hey Wes. May I quickly ask for your input? I'm banging heads with User:Unless you over whether the article for Year Zero's remix album should be named Year Zero Remixed or Y34RZ3R0R3MIX3D, as per Wikipedia's naming conventions. The section dubbed Album titles and band names says "Do not replicate stylized typography in logos and album art, though a redirect may be appropriate (for example, KoЯn redirects to Korn (band))." I interperet "Y34RZ3R0R3MIX3D" as stylized typography, Unless doesn't. I want to have consensus at the talk page before moving it again, and I'd appreciate your input. Cheers. -- Reaper X 22:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Grunge and Seattle

I can rewrite and cite the references to grunge in the Seattle article. The main problem is actually how it's written. "Seattle is often thought of as the home of grunge rock" is rather weak and imprecise. It should instead say something along the lines of "Grunge arose in the Seattle music scene in the 1980s and was popularized in the 1990s by bands such as Nirvana and Pearl Jam" or something like that, which is much easier to reference. Also, as Grunge music itself has recently passed FAR, we've thoroughly updated and improved the referencing; you can go through the web references in the article yourself and see if you can find anything suitable to use. WesleyDodds 01:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, it may need to be reworded, but somehow one wants to say that Seattle is famous for its music scene and its coffee. - Jmabel | Talk 02:24, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Wes, the etymology of grunge is relevant because many lay readers would be under the impression that the word itself originated in Seattle. The article itself gave this impression (i.e. the reference to Mark Arm). Grant | Talk 04:32, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sludgecore

Hi, you mentioned a few months ago that you have some excellent books on the subject of heavy metal- I was wondering if they mention sludgecore at all? I just nominated the article for deletion, as I can't find any sources, but, obviously, I would rather it didn't go if there was any way we could keep it or validly merge it. J Milburn 12:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Altroc

OK, I've done a first-pass copyedit and I have one bullet point:

• It doesn't appear that serious work has been done on the Alternative rock in other countries section. It probably seems like an exhausting prospect, but as it stands now, the section seems very random/scattershot and obviously undersourced.

Another semi-bullet point:

• (½) The recent history of Alternative rock in the United Kingdom seems a bit thin. (Yes, I know I'm the six-digit byte man, but this article is nowhere near that, and wouldn't hurt from a little plumping up.) E.g.: Say, how 'bout that Belle and Sebastian all the wimpy gits like?!? Ain't they alternative rock?—DCGeist 02:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Joy Division

I'll take a look over it tommorow (I've got plenty of time then). Was going to see Control last night, but about the only cinema in London showing it was fully booked. Darn. CloudNine 17:47, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

FAR Irish poetry

Irish poetry has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Ceoil 08:04, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Like I say, two weeks. Enough bitching already. Ceoil 08:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

You mean stina? What a voice...Ceoil 09:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, is he from Cork? Never noticed. I voted support because of his "distinctive blue eyes". Ceoil 09:15, 28 October 2007 (UTC)