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August 2023

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Information icon Hello, I'm Sundayclose. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Brincidofovir, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Sundayclose (talk) 13:55, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Info I added was obviously verifiable and not reasonably disputable; Sources were obvious; added. --RudolfoMD (talk) 10:38, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction to contentious topics

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You have recently edited a page related to COVID-19, broadly construed, a topic designated as contentious. This standard message is designed as an introduction to contentious topics and does not imply that there are any issues with your editing.

A special set of rules applies to certain topic areas, which are referred to as contentious topics. These are specially-designated topics that tend to attract more persistent disruptive editing than the rest of the project and have been designated as contentious topics by the Arbitration Committee. When editing a contentious topic, Wikipedia’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced, and Wikipedia administrators have special powers in order to reduce disruption to the project.

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Editors are advised to err on the side of caution if unsure whether making a particular edit is consistent with these expectations. If you have any questions about contentious topics procedures you may ask them at the arbitration clerks' noticeboard or you may learn more about this contentious topic here. You may also choose to note which contentious topics you know about by using the {{Ctopics/aware}} template. Johnuniq (talk) 05:21, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently reality is a contentious topic. If you think I made an edit inconsistent with these expectations, please identify the content and expectation and explain. RudolfoMD (talk) 07:35, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your comments at Talk:Peter Navarro show a misunderstanding of how article talk pages should be used. For one thing, putting "Fauci used taxpayer money to finance a Chinese laboratory ..." in a heading is a WP:BLP violation no matter how artfully the following wording is phrased. Your opinion about what a pdf says is not useful at Wikipedia. If you have a reliable source saying that an assertion in the article is false or misleading, specify the source and the wording that should be corrected, and why. Otherwise, you should find another topic to work on because much more of the same will result in a topic ban. The point about contentious topics is that they are contentious and time-wasting, repetitive yet content-free arguments need to stop. Johnuniq (talk) 09:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oops - I thought the idea that NIAID had funded research under which SARSr viruses gained the ability to infect human and monkey cells (Vero E6 and HeLa) with ACE2 receptors was widely accepted; I didn't think informed people still seriously disputed that. I regret the assumption. The ensuing discussion has showed is that there are still some who consider the idea to be not just disputed, but baseless conspiracy theory! My assumption apparently resulted in a lot of hostility and bad faith assumptions about me personally.
I don't understand something: the Navarro article is a BLP and has stated for some time, "During a Fox News appearance in March 2021, Navarro echoed a baseless conspiracy theory that Fauci [...] used taxpayer money to finance a Chinese laboratory where it was supposedly developed" so I presume that that is not a WP:BLP violation. So then how can putting the same phrase - "Fauci used taxpayer money to finance a Chinese laboratory ..." in a heading on a talk page be a WP:BLP violation? Are you saying the ... part is a BLP violation?
Are you saying the email in which Dr. Fauci wrote, “scientists in Wuhan University are known to have been working on gain-of-function experiments to determine that molecular mechanisms associated with bat viruses adapting to human infection, and the outbreak originated in Wuhan.” is not real or not a reliable source? Surely this FOIA'd government documents is not an unreliable source.
I am reviewing the paper entitled “Discovery of a rich gene pool of bat SARS-related coronaviruses provides new insights into the origin of SARS coronavirus”[1] to see if indeed it is the case that, as the Rand PDF claims, it described in-depth the research carried out at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and funded through NIAID Award R01AI110964. Dr. Zheng-Li Shi details the research in which the spike genes from two uncharacterized bat SARS-related coronavirus strains, Rs4231 and Rs7327, were combined with the genomic backbone of another SARS-related coronavirus to create novel chimeric SARS-related viruses that showed cytopathic effects in primate epithelial cells and replication in human epithelial cells. These experiments combined genetic information from different SARS-related coronaviruses and combined them to create novel, artificial viruses able to infect human cells. This research, funded under NIAID Award R01AI110964, meets the definition of gain-of-function research. If it does I think I can do / am doing what you said I should - present reliable sources (the email and the journal article) backing my rejected edit indicating that an assertion in the article is false or misleading. But if I haven't and can't then I certainly shall stop. I thought the idea that NIAID had funded research under which SARSr viruses gained the ability to infect human and monkey cells (Vero E6 cells and HeLa cells) was widely accepted. The paper does indeed show that experiments were performed on SARSr viruses whereby two, identified in the paper as WIV1-Rs4231S and WIV1-Rs7327S were described as having gained the ability to infect human and monkey cells (Vero E6 cells and HeLa cells), and was supported by funding of authors Peter Daszak (PD) and Zheng-Li Shi (ZLS) via the National Institutes of Health (NIAID R01AI110964 grant), and the USAID Emerging Pandemic Threats (EPT) PREDICT program. This is done in the "Rescue of bat SARSr-CoVs and virus infectivity experiments" and "Funding" sections. Authors state, "Using the reverse genetics technique we previously developed for WIV1 [23], we constructed [...] chimeric SARSr-CoVs". I'm finding everything in the quote checks out except perhaps the last sentence. I may need a source connecting the dots in one respect. We know - we have proof Fauci knew: "scientists in Wuhan University are known to have been working on gain-of-function experiments to determine that molecular mechanisms associated with bat viruses adapting to human infection" but it's a small leap to say "This research, funded under NIAID Award R01AI110964, meets the definition of gain-of-function research." I can't yet eliminate the possibility the statements are about different research.
--RudolfoMD (talk) 07:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I stand by the above but perhaps I can keep it short: In short The Intercept[2] and the peer-reviewed paper and grant it refers to[1] and USGov bat coronavirus grant R01AI110964 serve as a reliable source of expert opinion for these two edits, or something along along those lines: [1] and [2]. It shows that most experts believe that the "Fauci ... had used taxpayer money to finance a Chinese laboratory" part of what Wikipedia is calling a baseless conspiracy theory, isn't baseless, but rather true. You instructed me, "If you have a reliable source saying that an assertion in the article is false or misleading, specify the source and the wording that should be corrected, and why." Done. No? If you think different wording explaining the part that is now likely true would be better, can you suggest some, Johnuniq? Or do you believe that these sources refute no part of the article's text it's "a baseless conspiracy theory : Fauci was the “father” of the virus and had used taxpayer money to finance a Chinese laboratory where it was supposedly developed"? Johnuniq?
--RudolfoMD (talk) 07:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you are attempting to ping me, it hasn't worked—I have not received any notifications from you. Pings require a new comment (not an edit) with a new signature. See Help:Notifications. Rather than repeat attacks against a living person, you should be responding at the ANI report. That's not compulsory, but failing to respond suggests contempt for standard community procedures. Johnuniq (talk) 08:09, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand. I didn't just write the above, contrary to what you seem to have inferred. I wrote the above a week ago, long before the ANI report, which I don't know how to respond to because I see inaccuracies in so many of the claims and the overall gist that it seems unlikely to be coincidence. I can't leave it up to the admins to make their own judgement? How should I respond? Is there a policy? (It seems to me that assuming no response to be contempt would be assuming bad faith.) I had started writing a response and thought it wiser not to, and now I see you are pushing me to respond, but you also don't seem to want to even discuss The Intercept reporting covered.
Are you saying it's against policy/I'm not allowed to quote from the Intercept about Fauci because that's attacking a living person? I feel frustrated - I see misrepresention at ANI and see you refusing to respond to my week-old questions by clarifying, and instead are giving instructions that I find are also unclear. So I'm not feeling well. Please consider directly replying to what I wrote a week ago at some point. If you're trying to be helpful. If you don't, I'll take that as confirmation you want me to stop editing. RudolfoMD (talk) 08:42, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding "I didn't just write the above, contrary to what you seem to have inferred.", I was thinking of the two links to my user page above, including one added 21 minutes before my comment (07:38, 1 September 2023). People don't need every inaccuracy refuted. It would be desirable to pick out, say, two of the most significant problems with the report and briefly explain why they are inaccurate. It's normal at noticeboards (including ANI) for people to put their differing views and for others to comment.
My opinion on whether certain sources refute something is not relevant to what I wrote. My earlier comment above concerned WP:BLP and a claim you made in (diff) where you created a new section with heading "Fauci used taxpayer money to finance a Chinese laboratory where [SARS-CoV-2] was [perhaps] developed is NOT "a baseless conspiracy theory" per reliable sources these days". The use of qualifiers like "perhaps" is not acceptable because it is obvious that such wording looks like an attempt to assert that Fauci did something bad. I haven't read your sources and have no opinion on the matter other than that a quick skim of Anthony Fauci fails to show any support for the notion conveyed in your text. That's not conclusive of course, but if what you suggest is true, it obviously belongs in Fauci's article. Johnuniq (talk) 11:03, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
SandyGeorgia, do you think I need to reply to the ANI?
I was going to respond to you:
Thanks.
Yes, mustn't lose my temper even when someone endangers readers by removing notice of a black box warning from an article, citation or no.
Kudos on covering Wakefield's fraud - https://xtools.wmcloud.org/articleinfo/wiki.riteme.site/MMR_vaccine_and_autism. Interesting tool too. Wow.
I can't leave it up to the admins to make their own judgement?   This smear so distasteful. I think most of my article edits (some tool can tell?) have nothing to do with covid or vaccines. I assume good faith, but so many misrepresentations - like one that has been made thrice- "peddling allegations from a controversial US senator as a sole source" - I did no such thing, as the record shows - I, rather, brought up a senator's letter's cited sources and its news coverage, like The Intercept article I am trying to discuss above, as sources. RudolfoMD (talk) 10:13, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Rudolfo; I'm sorry to be "meeting" under these circumstances. I do appreciate your attempts to contribute to medical content, and regret such a rocky start.
The reason Johnuniq had not responded to you is that the ping you sent was faulty; for a ping to be received by another editor, it has to be included with a new post that is signed. Johnuniq was trying to explain that above, but with a lot going on right now, I see it's difficult for you to understand everything and prioritize what should be your first response to whom and where.
In general, the "accused" should always respond at ANI, even if the accusations seem faulty or in bad faith. I understand your frustration that many diffs in the ANI are misrepresented and fail to AGF, but I have mostly already pointed that out, so with an ANI thread that is already being bludgeoned, I hope you can let those misrepresentations go and let the facts speak for themselves. That is, keep your response short and to the point, and even when you feel there have been bad faith accusations, don't respond in kind.
In general, I can tell you four things about Wikipedia that must become your bright line:
  1. Always focus on content; don't personalize discussions.
  2. Always take care with edit summaries; they are permanent, and you can't retract what you write in them, so they should always be absolutely neutral and informative and avoiding personalization of issues. Sundayclose was wrong to revert your factual addition, but many editors are prone to blindly reverting edits from new editors that don't have a WP:MEDRS source attached to them. But you were wrong to call them a "nutter", and that should result in a sincere apology from you. Without an apology at ANI for your inappropriate edit summaries, things might not go well.
  3. Make one revert a general policy; never ever edit war, and never re-revert if you've been reverted once (except for WP:BLP or blatant vandalism), until a thorough discussion has occurred on talk. That policy will save you a lot of agida on Wikipedia.
  4. Stay away from anything related to COVID. Period. It has always been a mess on Wikipedia, as a new editor you aren't going to fix that, and even restating what sources say will only result in problems. You have much to add in other medical topics, and COVID articles on Wikipedia are unlikely to ever be a good place to spend your time ... particularly as you learn which sources will always be rejected on Wikipedia even if they are reliable.
Yes, the smear is distasteful, and I regret seeing that happen to a new editor, but the failure to AGF in most of the diffs speaks for itself and most observers will see through them (that is, most editors do AGF).
I think you need to apologize for the edit summaries, acknowledge that you are new and didn't realize the sources you were using would be rejected in COVID content, simply state that your intent with the COVID posts was misunderstood and ask that others carefully read, recognize that you should never revert without discussion, and express regret for having engaged in an argument with WMrapids at the reliable sources noticeboard; you are by no means the first to be frustrated to the point of exasperation by them, but nonetheless, you are responsible for your own responses and behavior, and on Wikipedia, one has to always avoid taking the bait. My best advice with WMrapids is to let them have the last word, or you'll end up typing for the rest of your life :)
So, yes, you should respond at ANI, but you should do so when you are able to respond to it without anger or frustration, with a short simple apology for where you went wrong and agreement to seek advice from more experienced editors going forward; it's OK to take your time to compose a response, since you are so obviously new to Wikipedia.
Once again, I'm sorry this happened to you; I can only offer that I had similar happen when I was new 17 years ago, and the bad things that were done to me made me a better editor in the long run. We need knowledgeable medical editors, so I hope you'll not be too discouraged by this, and stick around! Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 10:44, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS, having now followed through on Johnuniq's post after mine, it is important also to understand how to use appropriate talk page headings; short and simple is best. Even if you had a rock-solid, high-quality source, and even if we weren't talking about a BLP, a more appropriate section heading would have been something simple like "Navarro claims on Fox news". It's Navarro's page, but both Navarro and Fauci are living persons, WP:BLP applies on all pages (even talk), and the point you were trying to make was lost because of the way you worded the section heading. You were seeking to change the words "baseless conspiracy theory" (not very encyclopedic) to "claims" (more encyclopedic), and that point was lost. This is part of why I advise you simply avoid COVID topics until you're more experienced; I'm as experienced as any medical editor, and won't touch them :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:34, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ a b Hu, Ben; Zeng, Lei-Ping; Yang, Xing-Lou; Ge, Xing-Yi; Zhang, Wei; Li, Bei; Xie, Jia-Zheng; Shen, Xu-Rui; Zhang, Yun-Zhi; Wang, Ning; Luo, Dong-Sheng; Zheng, Xiao-Shuang; Wang, Mei-Niang; Daszak, Peter; Wang, Lin-Fa; Cui, Jie; Shi, Zheng-Li (November 2017). "Discovery of a rich gene pool of bat SARS-related coronaviruses provides new insights into the origin of SARS coronavirus". PLoS pathogens. 13 (11): e1006698. doi:10.1371/journal.ppat.1006698. ISSN 1553-7374.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
  2. ^ Hibbett, Sharon Lerner, Mara Hvistendahl, Maia (10 September 2021). "NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan". The Intercept.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)


Indicating to wikipedia readers when they visit a page on a pharmaceutical if it has a black box warning - the most severe warning the FDA mandates for a drug

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Anyone want to work on this with me?

Accomplished! --RudolfoMD (talk) 10:38, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I challenge with the claim that https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2023/11/17/these-are-the-people-that-fired-openai-ceo-sam-altman/?sh=26dd1a074ae9, which has 2 paragraphs entirely about her, does not constitute significant coverage. The article is entirely about her and the rest of the board. And it's by two Forbes staffers. Surely independent. Not to mention there's a ton more out there; OpenAI is worth ~$86 billion. Combined, that makes this decline highly inappropriate, no? RudolfoMD (talk) 19:19, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Merry Christmas

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Christmas postcard
~ ~ ~ Merry Christmas! ~ ~ ~

Hello RudolfoMD: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, --Dustfreeworld (talk) 12:23, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Harassment concern

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It looks as if you are starting to follow me round disruptively reverting my edits. What for example are you doing here?[3] I explained why I made that edit in my WP:ES, yet you did a regressive revert without comment. Bon courage (talk) 09:18, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Copied from your talk page where I already responded to the accusation] Holy moly. Your writing that in response to the comment above it [edit:on Bon's talk page] with sources proving it wrong before I've even responded is... EPIC. Controlled animal studies can show something to be carcinogenic even if epidemiological dietary evidence can't. Editing accordingly is the opposite of CRYSTAL.
FOLLOW NPOV. By all means, the article should and (IIRC) does mention that CRUK as of 2021 says the idea it causes cancer is a myth with no evidence, but don't' put it in wikipedia's voice. Why?
The problem is what you wrote is a medical claim that does not represent the balance of perspectives of high-quality, reliable secondary sources, not that I didn't read it. The sources are overwhelmingly on my side; I noted three of them in my previous comment. "You need to" back the hell off and not order people around.
I'm not following you. As you should know. I came here to follow up on (link to) your removing content from Burzynski Clinic without adequately explaining why, and then refusing to engage when I said: "researchers other than Burzynski and his associates have not been successful in duplicating his results" is outdated. You rejected my update. What update is acceptable to you? Then while on the page, I saw THIS discussion about and your hostility to Kku and looked into the issue about acrylamide.
Consider yourself warned about making frivolous or meritless complaints about another editor following you around. And your argument is so weak. Look at the LD50 of the carcinogen. They're right there in the acrylamide infobox. ~100mg. That not a lot. 50 packets of chips can have that much. And I'm sure plenty of people have had several packets of chips in a day and that many in a month. And it does seem to do harm according to doctors and blood tests. Criticizing someone for OR on user talk pages is lame. OR even says "This policy does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content and sources, such as deletion discussions or policy noticeboards." SMH. And the WP:ES of my previous edit moments earlier to the same page explained the edit you ask about so shrilly. As does BRD. --RudolfoMD (talk) 10:38, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still no explanation about why you reverted my shortening of an over-long short description without comment.[4] Was this a follow & harass stunt? Because I'm sorry to say that's what it looks like. Bon courage (talk) 10:30, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not true. As I said above, And the WP:ES of my previous edit moments earlier to the same page explained the edit you ask about so shrilly. As does BRD. And further above, I'm not following you. ... while on the page...acrylamide. Stop harassing me. I've now warned you 4 times - Consider yourself warned about making frivolous or meritless complaints about another editor following you around RudolfoMD (talk) 10:46, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In fact it is true. You reverted a maintenance edit (my shortening of a shortdesc) with no comment. Given your lack of explanation I have to conclude that you did indeed follow me an article and reverted my edits, simply because they were my edits. Bon courage (talk) 11:21, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ANI notice

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January 2024

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Stop icon
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing because it appears that you are not here to build an encyclopedia.
If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  Doug Weller talk 08:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Concern regarding Draft:Penn Foster Group

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Concern regarding Draft:Brincidofovir

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Your draft article, Draft:Brincidofovir

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tech News: 2024-49

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tech News: 2024-50

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tech News: 2024-51

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:22, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings of the season

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A Merry Christmas. (Sled with holly)
~ ~ ~ Greetings of the season ~ ~ ~
Hello RudolfoMD: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, Spread the love; use {{subst:User:Dustfreeworld/Xmas3}} to send this message.
--Dustfreeworld (talk) 16:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
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