User talk:MezzoMezzo/Archive 6

Take a look

I've seen your username attached to several Islam related articles and am requesting you assistance on the page for Abdur-Rahman al-Mu'allimee al-Yamani. There is something close to vandalism there and I am out of practice at Wikipedia. Supreme Touché (talk) 00:42, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!Samsparky (talk) 23:57, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Need some who reads Arabic!

We have an editor, Ecoboy90, who is I'm sure in good faith creating a number of new articles, most of them using this as a source. I think the source itself is ok, but the spellings being used are confusing. See Talk:Karab El Watar. Another possible example is Wahab El Yahiz - I'm guessing that there's a common English spelling that I can't locate - I can't find anyone meeting the details in his article. There's been some OR problems also, and unfortunately we don't seem to be on very good terms. Can you help? thanks. Doug Weller talk 18:32, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: sure, I'm glad to help. I see a number of issues with how these articles were written - the spelling is the obvious one. Ignoring the fact that it's not the common English spelling (which should be enough to end the discussion right there), it's simply wrong in it's current state; this is the case for both articles.

Second, that source being used is to a PDF file containing absolutely no information about the book itself. All that reads is the title - "Al-Mufassal: the History of the Arabs Before Islam" - and the author's name, Dr. Jawad Ali. Oh, and that it's the first volume. There's literally nothing else; no publisher, no date, no ISBN number, no city of publication, nothing. It's just a PDF floating on the net with no attestation to reliability.

Third, the site that hosts the PDF is some private one in Jersey called the Arab Cultural Trust. Their about us page has a version in English that doesn't seem to include an editorial policy or anything. A bit suspect.

Fourth, the Arabic articles for both of the above already mention more verifiable sources for the readers of English Wikipedia: Sabaean inscriptions from Maḥram Bilqîs by Albert Jamme for Wahab'il Yahiz, and Die Personennamen in den altsabaischen Inschriften: Ein Beitrag zur altsudarabischen by Salem Ahmad Tairan (Namengebung, 1992) and Chrestomathia Arabica meridionalis epigraphica edita et glossario instructa by Carlo Conti Rossini (Pubblicazioni dell'Istituto per l'Oriente, 1931). It might be a good idea to check those out.

I agree that this is probably all in good faith, but a measure of work needs to be done. What do you think the next step is? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:41, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Reach out to the editor urgently and get him to stop. See List of rulers of Saba and Himyar which is all based on the same book and full of mispellings I can't figure out, partially because it contains numbered kings but the original articles don't have numbers. It's been based on that book since Nov. 2007.[1] The author's name is actually Jawad Ali, and he's used in various sources[2] See also this.[3] By the way, the list says " A Sabaic dictionary which was puplished by the University of Sana'a is used to interpret the rulers' names and titles.[5]" I'm not sure that works with names, but perhaps it does.

In any case, there's quite a bit of work to do. Perhaps if you could help him with the names and get him to make the spelling changes - and convince him I'm not a bad guy of course. :-) His talk page suggests he's not sued to working with others, and I know he doesn't understand about original research. Thanks very much! Doug Weller talk 06:05, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

See El Sharih Yahdhib.I don't know what can be done about his writing. Doug Weller talk 06:14, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Re Karib'il Watar I have re-jigged it to be a bit more readable. Can you take a quick look at the 'campaigns'. I am of course dubious of the spelling there, however not being able to read the original text, I cant tell where quotation starts/ends and what is author comment. In context some of them seem unlikely wordings to be carved into a wall. Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:06, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: I'm so sorry! I procrastinated because I thought it would be a simple issue of explaining to a new user why their spelling was wrong. I had no idea it would blow up into an SPI and mudslinging across ANI. I just saw the archived thread; I'm sorry that I didn't take initiative on that. For what it's worth, I'll try to clean up the mess after the fact, but you have my thanks for handling that meltdown so quickly. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:32, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

No problem but I'm glad Platypus took it to AfD. I spent up to an hour on El Sharih Yahdhib failing to find him, his father, his brother, the Axumite tribal allies, etc. "Yahdib" is clearly wrong. There seems to have been 4 Bakil kings in parallel with another line of kings, but I wasn't able to find all their names. Maybe you can. Doug Weller talk 04:45, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: me too, it was a good call. I already have a negative feeling about these other articles...many of the same sources are mentioned, and some of the material in the articles themselves seem related to Kingdoms and not the supposed individuals. Just to be sure, are we mainly talking about El Sharih Yahdhib, Karab El Bayin, Karib'il Watar and Sha'r Awtar? Or is there more? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

I think that's all. I dealt with 2 others just now. User:Only in death, thanks for your help. There's actually quite a bit on Karib'il Watar that would improve the article no end.[4][5][6] Doug Weller talk 12:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Looking for a reliable Sinni source

Salam Alaykum, I look for a reliable Sunni source which describes Sunnis view about Rashidun Caliphate particularly Ali's caliphate and First Fitna. Can you please help me with it.--Seyyed(t-c) 11:50, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

@Sa.vakilian: walaikum as salam, are you thinking of older sources like Tabari-era, or more modern sources from contemporary Sunni authors? MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:56, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Modern sources I mean.--Seyyed(t-c) 06:39, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

@Sa.vakilian: salam alaikum Seyyed. I haven't forgotten your inquiry, but time has run short. I will try to give the subject a good search once I get the time. I hope the delay hasn't caused any slowdowns with editing. Happy Ramadan, btw. MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:26, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Salam Alaykum, I hope you have good time in Ramadan. I guessed you forgot it ;-) In fact we try to make a good article about Rashidun Caliphate in Persian wikipedia based on the featured one in Arabic. However, we have more restricted codes about the reliable sources similar to English wikipedia. Therefor, many of the sources of Arabic wiki are not acceptable there.--Seyyed(t-c) 17:41, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

@Sa.vakilian: walaikum as salam, oh I definitely know what you mean. Arabic Wikipedia is ridiculous, right down to the admins themselves - YouTube slander videos with a similar maturity level to rap battles are accepted, and primary religious sources like hadith are considered reliable and even trump actual scientific/scholarly sources among the community there. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten, and I'll make sure to get around to it soon enough. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:24, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Salam Alaykum, Reminder.--Seyyed(t-c) 08:36, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

@Sa.vakilian: walaikum as-salam, I haven't forgotten, though I suppose I did take my time. After searching among modern sources, I've realized that Sunni writing on the First Fitna and Ali's rulership seems to fall into three categories. These are my own categories and I'm not an expert, so please take this with a grain of salt.

1. Revisionist works that sugarcoat the intense conflict, brush it under the carpet and try to encourage people not to talk about it.
2. Polemical works that are more anti-Shi'a than actual history.
3. Works written by Sunni descendants of Ahlul-Bayt, which tend to be the most fair but still never seem to go into details.

The Ghomaris and Kettanis, both Moroccan families, have some words about this, but even then it's nothing substantial. If you're looking for modern Sunni sources, though, I think that writers from those two families would be the best bet. Do you need example titles? Some of their writings on the topic might be contained within larger works of more general subjects. MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:00, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank for your detailed answer. However, I need reliable sources from the different viewpoints. You see, I want to improve the articles.--Seyyed(t-c) 09:38, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Mujono

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Mujono requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. 2602:306:3357:BA0:8EC:C96E:3A67:4DCD (talk) 03:52, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Wow...nominating the sixth chief justice of the supreme court of the world's fourth most populous nation...for speedy? Eight minutes after its creation? I don't think I've seen a more ridiculous (yet good faith) misuse of speedy in my nine years of editing. And I'm not being sarcastic. MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:03, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Ahmad Thomson

Dear brother MezzoMezzo, assalamu alaykum. Ramadan Mubarak. I hope you are well. I am respectfully hoping you will take a minute to look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ahmad Thomson. I think he's not at all notable. Thanks and regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 05:44, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

@GorgeCustersSabre: walaikum as salam, and Ramadan Mubarak to you, too. I'll try to take a moment to check out the article and AfD once I have the chance. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:04, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Ether one of them

Hello. Regarding you reverts in the article of Islam and the article of Barelvi. I know for sure that Barelvi is a Sufi movement not a Sunni. But, for you Barelvi is ether a Sunni or Sufi. So, if you think it is a Sunni, why don't you remove all the sourced info in its article that says it is a Sufi?! Kfaani (talk) 07:47, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Dear Kfaani, I am probably impolite by answering on someone else's talk page (sorry MezzoMezzo), but you are mistaken. Barelvi is a Sunni movement, not a Sufi movement, although Barelvis can also be Sufis. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 07:51, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I know that some Sufis calim they are Sunnis! It is like if some Shia claimed they are Sunnis! Sufism is NOT a branch of Sunni Islam. Sufis consider themselves as a branch of Islam. Sunni Islam and Sufism are different sects. The article of [Barelvi] is full of many neutral sources which confirm that Barelvi is a Sufi. I am still waiting for the reply of MezzoMezzo. Kfaani (talk) 08:10, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

You are wrong, and I believe your edits constitute edit-warring. Try to work with other editors, not against them. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 08:12, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I am a scholar of Islam for tens of years. Sunni Islam and Sufism are two sects. This is basic information and I wonder how come some people would even argue about it! Kfaani (talk) 16:47, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

@Kfaani: I don't care who you think you are. Wikipedia is a site based on policies and consensus; learn the rules of the site or nobody will take you or your fringe theories seriously. Please go review Wikipedia:Consensus, Wikipedia:Fringe theories, Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines and Wikipedia:Edit warring. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Wahab El Yahiz

See Wahab'il Yahuz Doug Weller talk 12:24, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

No email

Do you use Yahoo? That often doesn't work with Wikipedia mail. Doug Weller talk 09:52, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: indeed I do. Were you able to at least see my email address at all, or was an email simply not sent to you? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:17, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

No, nothing came at all. It's a known problem, see [7]. Hm, [8]. Doug Weller talk 06:28, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

I know of another admin who has received emails from me before; it was two years ago so I'm not sure if he has it saved in his archives. Also, I don't know if he's allowed to give you my email, but I think I have his. Could I email him off-wiki and ask him to send you my email address? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:35, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Nudge nudge wink winke hm, [9]? and thanks for the move. Doug Weller talk 10:12, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Still waiting for your email. Doug Weller talk 12:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

I found Mukkaribs and changed it to Mukarribs, much more common spelling. Rewrote it as it was mainly Mormon (Latter Day Saints) sourced and used one of their prophets as a time frame, and realised it should be singular, Mukarrib - started to move it there and discovered we already had a duplicate article there. So, merged by text as of course it was better. There's a lot that can be written about them. I'm worried about List of rulers of Saba and Himyar (based on that Arabic book) and List of rulers of Sheba which is based on a don't know what and looks better structured, giving alternatives. And I think there isn't just one possible list. But of course its mistitled. But the Jaead Ali one suffers from being very pov as there are definitely other opinions (other writers don't suggest so many Mukarribs for instance), and I'm sure using non-standard translations. I'm tempted to keep its title but replace the material with the Sheba stuff, although it probably has problems with spelling and accuracy. Doug Weller talk 18:10, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Mr. Weller: regarding the two lists, then I agree that the second one looks like it has more accurate spelling/transliteration, and I like the multiple lists in terms of historical nuance, but the lack of sources is problematic. The user who created the article has been inactive for six years, so there's no way to ask them for a source. And although the Jawad Ali source might be acceptable, and the first list is based on it, basing such a list on only one source is quite problematic. So, if we go with what you suggest:

1. We keep the name of the first list
2. Keep the version of the second list
3. Still need to find more sources

I don't think this is controversial, but it is substantial. Does such a change need to be announced on talk pages for a period of time first? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:22, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

The only recent edits besides Echoboy90 are adding cats, so I'd say no. We aren't going to get any discussion on the talk pages. See WP:MERGEINIT. In any case, it could be undone. Doug Weller talk 06:32, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: fair enough. Do you wish to do the honors, or should I? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:36, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

If you've got time now could you? I'm on my exercise bike. It's actually a page move leaving a redirect behind, thus keeping the contribution history. Doug Weller talk 06:39, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: no worries, I got this. Feel the burn! MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:41, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: I have been looking through the Beaston source, but unfortunately I haven't felt well lately which cuts into my free time. But don't worry...I just thought I'd leave a note letting you know that this hasn't been forgotten. MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:33, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Doug Doug Weller talk 06:49, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Hadith of Najd

MezzoMezzo, that copypaste-claiming fool came along again. I've semi-protected the article since this has gone on long enough. Anytime you want to earn that barnstar for cleaning up and improving this article, go right ahead; I'd sure appreciate it. I could try it myself but I'd probably offend most major religions in the world, given my lack of knowledge. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:49, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

@Drmies: flattery will get you everywhere! On a serious note, I'll give it a good look over. The sources currently there are reliable though I can see that the article itself needs some work. It's a hyper-charged sectarian issue, and the fact that one sect of the roughly three involved in the conflict sort of has more historical/geographical/linguistic evidence on their side (that's not me taking sides, I want nothing to do with any of the sects involved) is bound to irk a lot of casual readers who browse and become enflamed. I'll do my best in the next week or so. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:26, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Sectarianism? in an article on a religious topic? Shocking. Thanks--anything you can do will make it less attractive as a target. Plus, a better article is better. I appreciate the help, MezzoMezzo. Drmies (talk) 12:06, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Laylat al-Qadr ( night of decree )

Hey, I attempted to have a mention of Laylat al-Qadr on the main page, in the OTD box. I was confused as there were multiple days regarded as Laylat al-Qadr and those days were a bit different for Shi'a and Sunni. I decided to mention 23rd for Shia and 27th for Sunni. However, do you think it's done correctly, as we know there's no sectarian dispute in this regard and the differences stem from ambiguity of the narrations? Mhhossein (talk) 07:00, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: yeah, I think the way you put it was fine - I doubt anybody gets belligerent/sectarian-ly charged about which of the several nights it could fall on, and it's definitely a night important enough to warrant being in the OTD box. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:21, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, I'm now more confident. It's the first time the article appears on the main page. Mhhossein (talk) 09:25, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 14

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Suwardi, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Deputy Chief Justice of Indonesia. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:16, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Translation advice

If you have time, your help with a translation dispute would be appreciated at Talk:Jizya#Al-Buti_translation. Eperoton (talk) 03:51, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@Eperoton: I'm always glad to help if I'm regularly logging in, and I already have my thoughts on the piece posted. However, it might be prudent for me to wait for the other party to respond, as a courtesy, before I enter the discussion. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:57, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

A present day martyr

I have done a bit of clean-up to an article on Asfandyar Bukhari Shaheed, removing most of the martydom statements, honorifics, etc. Please could you add it to your watch list.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:41, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

@Toddy1: Sure, I'll se what I can do. Though from the beginning, I can tell that this will take a bit of work; the article is written in a rather improper style. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:05, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

saw your name

I was wondering if you take requests? These are relatively simple, I need some names transliterated into Arabic, and a quick check to see if anything exists at the Arabic Wikipedia for them. I can't read Arabic, and when I try to cut and paste, sometimes they reverse or the characters mutate. Even when (well, especially) I've asked for help at the Arabic Wiki, even my English starts to fracture by line and put punctuation in the wrong place. Help?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 15:42, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Just in case, the list is Gamal Khashaba, Mohamed Saad el Din Sherif, Aly Aly El-Moursy, Hussein Sabry Gad El Mula

Mohamed Saad el Din Sherif Aly Aly El-Moursy Muhammad el-Hibri Farid Karam Abdallah Zouaghi Mohamed Triki Mahmoud el-Alamy Abdelaziz Drissi-Kacemi Mohamed Afilal Ibrahim Zakaria Rashid Shoucair Hassan Al-Ali Mohamed H. Fhema Mostafa Salem Mohammed Saleh Al Qahtani Samih Abdel Fattah Iskandar Malek Gabr Fawzi Farghali Fathy Farghali --Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 11:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

@Kintetsubuffalo: Yes, I'd be glad to help. Let me take a look at these for a moment. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:03, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you so much!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 07:55, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

@Kintetsubuffalo: I've looked on Arabic Wikipedia for half of the list of individuals so far. No luck; Mohamed Triki shares his name with several individuals but I couldn't find anything on him specifically. Keep in mind that this is only in regard to Arabic Wikipedia; I haven't started wider Google searches yet. I'll try to get to that phase soon. MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:03, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

That's all right, Arab Wikipedia is enough, thank you so much!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:20, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Reverted your edit

Hi. Thank you for your edit on 2016 Turkish purges, MezzoMezzo. However, it appears that you have reverted an edit that improves on the article's content. It actually explains why the Egyptians rejected a statement condemning the coup attempt. It's because the statement called for sides to "respect the democratically elected" government of Turkey, but the Egyptians feared that it would legitimize the regime of Erdogan. The previous edit did not explain why, and claimed Sisi as a "coup" leader. Zakawer (talk) 14:16, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

@Zakawer: From the source itself:

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is a former general who overthrew elected President Mohamed Mursi, of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, in 2013 after mass protests against Mursi. Turkey provided support for the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

The source itself mentions that Sisi led the overthrow of the previous government; it doesn't mention anything about fears of legitimizing Erdogan's rule. Please review WP:WHYCITE and WP:NOR. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:38, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, but the citation was moved behind that statement on fears of legitimizing Erdogan's regime. Zakawer (talk) 15:34, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Your inquiry

I have responded to your inquiry here [10]. Xtremedood (talk) 03:28, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry for my skepticism (which I didn't state but I'm sure it was obvious) about our ability to work with each other. You found a new angle to resolve both of our disagreements quickly. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:15, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Sudden traffic increase

Can you say why we've got a peak here? ----Mhhossein ^talk 19:42, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: Without the ability to view just where the traffic came from, it's hard to say. However, we can surmise that when a Wikipedia article is mentioned in an online news source, a lot of people who don't otherwise read Wikipedia will visit said article. I have no idea who we'd test that hypothesis, though. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:29, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks anyway. --Mhhossein ^talk 05:03, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, MezzoMezzo. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Assalamu alaikum warahmathullahi wabarakathuhu

Now the article about Aboobacker Amani nominated for deletion, Can you work for Kerala Muslims. Wassalam. 137.97.224.201 (talk) 06:34, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Ipigott. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Siti Noordjannah Djohantini, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Ipigott (talk) 10:24, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Nurjan Mirahmadi

Dear MezzoMezzo, assalamu alaykum. I hope you are fine. I am respectfully hoping you will help me to keep the Nurjan Mirahmadi page neutral, accurate and referenced. One editor continuously adds hyperbolic, fan-style and unreferenced material, and even keeps changing the page name itself to include Mawlana, sheikh, etc. My thanks and regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 08:28, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

@GorgeCustersSabre: walaikum as salam, I'm okay. Wow...what a mess. There's clear edit warring by the article creator there, though I'm not sure how much attention the article itself needs when it's up for AfD. Let's see how that plays out, because if the article is deleted (which it should be) then there's no reason to worry about the specific content at this time. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:26, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes that's the best course of action now. Thanks so much. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 03:53, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! --JustBerry (talk) 05:32, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

A revision of the Muslim scholar infobox

Hey! Thanks for the kind words about Ibn Hanbal edits! Listen, I was hoping we could work at making a new type of infobox for classical Islamic scholars, similar to the one right now (i.e. it will have places for time/place of birth/death, Creed, jurisprudence, tariqa etc) but, looking at the beautiful one for Catholic saints (gold on names and titles) -- I was hoping we could make one like that but deep green in color instead of gold, perhaps with white writing for titles, names etc. And try to have some pictoral representation, be it calligraphy or figurative. I just thought we could now work at making a template for Islamic scholars, which should not take so long (we can use the Catholic saint infobox as a model) and then I can help add it to pages! It can be "classical Islamic scholar infobox."

Also we can have a similar space for titles under the pictures, as the Muslim scholars also have titles! --Megalodon34 (talk) 06:36, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

@Megalodon34: that's the best original idea I've heard in a long time. I took a look at Template:Infobox saint and it doesn't seem overly complicated. Do you want to work on this in a sandbox, or on a subpage somewhere? And should we inform any Wikiprojects? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:19, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks mate! I don't know what a sandbox is; and neither do I know what Wikiprojects are! :P You tell me if those are good ideas? And yes, I do not think it should be too difficult -- how do we get the colors right? Thanks a lot again! --Megalodon34 (talk) 03:26, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

@Megalodon34: your sandbox is a single, personal page where you can practice editing, experiment or slowly create longer articles before posting them. You should see the "Sandbox" link in between the links for your talk page and preferences. You're allowed to try out weird formatting and stuff there. A Wikiproject is a page for editors with similar interests to find assistance. Wikipedia:WikiProject Infoboxes, for example, is a page where people who really, really like making and editing infoboxes can coordinate their efforts. Quite often for a project like this, the editors involved will post a message on the talk page of the project asking for help from anyone who's interested.

Take a look at that page, your sandbox and any other Wikiprojects that you think could help out. I have to log out for today, but hopefully I'll have time to log in tomorrow and we can see how much further we can take this idea. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:55, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Points

First of all, yes; you are absolutely right that it seems like "original research" -- i think i was writing in a hurry and there has to be a better way of phrasing the idea that several things became cardinal points of Sunni Islam during the classical/medieval periods, like the belief in saint's miracles ("Belief in the miracles of saints is a requirement in Sunni Islam" as Jonathan Brown says) but are rejected by several modern strands of Sunnism... I will work out how to phrase it all better!

And thanks for the recommendation of the book on Ibn Hanbal! I actually have it already! But thanks :) Megalodon34 (talk) 08:12, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

@Megalodon34: Even after ten years on this site, I still occasionally write things in a rush and end up rethinking it later. The ability to come up with quick ideas is a good one (especially the Dr. Brown ref - I don't think anyone would find him objectionable as a citation). Best of luck. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:19, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Quick Arabic translation question

Does this (in the last sentence) state that Babiker Awadalla died as a 99-year old? If so, is there an obituary you can point me towards? Star Garnet (talk) 20:05, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

@Star Garnet: Unfortunately, I've tried opening that article from the "sudaress" website in both my browser on this computer as well as on my smartphone; in both cases, I'm receiving an error message that the server can't be reached. I did run a quick search and found this article mentioning that he would turn a hundred in a year, but the article was published in 2015 which means he'd become turn ninety-nine one year after its publishing, not one-hundred. Either way, his age does seem to have a source.

The problem comes with his death. I ran an Arabic search and only found a few articles on current politicians in Sudan being compared to him and a handful of very brief mentions on his life of retirement in Egypt. Even when I googled "did Babiker Awadalla die" in Arabic, I oddly got a bunch of results about Hasan al-Turabi.

I think his age is safe to declare. As for his date of death, I can't quite help there until I can get the initial link working. I'm really not sure what's wrong. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:27, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

It's possible this article is actually an obituary, but if so, the phrasing doesn't translate well. Here's an archive link. The sentence in question:

تم تنحيته من العمل السياسي فعاش في مصر منذ عام 1972م وتوفي فيها عن 99 عاماً .

Star Garnet (talk) 06:23, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

@Star Garnet: Yes, that sentence is basically and obituary, though the whole article gives a brief look at his working life as well. The sentence says that after he stepped down from political action, he lived in Egypt from 1972 until he died there at the age of 99. I think you have a pretty solid source on your hands. Do you need help digging more factoids out of it? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:22, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your help. I just wish I could find a source with a stated date of death. Star Garnet (talk) 07:13, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

@Star Garnet: Yes, the lack of details is unfortunate. I just ran another search in Arabic, both for news articles and then a general search for anything. There doesn't seem to be mention of his death anywhere other than the link you found, which obviously doesn't mention a date. At least all efforts were exhausted though, right? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:20, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Jordan Lead Codices

You're just what I need! Information from here as been added to the article, but only minimally. I'd love to see what the article actually says. Could you email me a translation? Don't put it here, it's too much for even a talk page from a copyvio point of view, but it's legal to send it to me. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 16:42, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: I'll be able to sit down at my desktop and perform a translation on Monday evening. The article is short so it shouldn't take long (once I'm able to make the time). Does Monday evening work? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:30, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not sure if it's needed. There's now s link.to an English version in the article, so as long as they are the same, no need now. Doug Weller talk 07:17, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Tiny help needed with review of two Arabic pages

Hello MezzoMezzo,

Thank you for your multi-lingual contributions.

Just to get a feel for other languages and their Wikipedias, I occasionally make (trivial) edits in other languages, including Arabic.

A couple of months ago I fixed a typo here and here.

The changes are still pending, and are apparently awaiting review by someone else. Is there any chance you could do that?

Thanks either way, Lklundin (talk) 08:44, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

@Lklundin: unfortunately, I won't be able to; I only have pending changes review rights here on English Wikipedia. If you'd like, I could try to contact someone else on Arabic Wikipedia who could approve the changes. Would that help? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:18, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me. Incidentally, I realized this just yesterday and posted a similar request with Aboluay. So let's see what happens. Many thanks for your offer to help. Lklundin (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Another promo

Hiya! Last two weeks brought another wave of spam editing from Pakistan (or is it Iran this time?): now about Mir Sayyid Ali Hamadani. Links to his article are being pushed, mostly by IP (IPv6!) editors, to "See also" sections across Wikipedia. Where a link was already there, his name is edited to include honorifics. The range is enormous - just take a look at 150 of my recent reverts [11]. Best, — kashmiri ^TALK 22:25, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kashmiri: oh good Lord...again? Ok seriously, is there an easy way to check the range of articles being edited? What I'm thinking is that there are possibly more IP editors than you and other editors (myself included) currently know about. That isn't guaranteed, but it would make this much more complicated. In those 150 edits, has there been a limited number of articles being tagged with honorifics or is this spilling everywhere? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:39, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

It looks like anything Islam related and Sufism related, predominantly biographies. Including completely unrelated bios like Sunan Gunungjati, Dhul-Nun al-Misri or Abu Zur’a al-Razi. Just today's edits that I caught: [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17], but there certainly are many more. Honorifics are added only where they are "missing" but the main activity is adding links to Hamadani article. Cheers, — kashmiri ^TALK 09:22, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

I just ran a quick check on all those IP addresses. That's quite a rabbit hole there, but so far, you seem to have stopped the attempts before I was able to really help. For the time being, has this stopped? I know it will start again, but I think part of this is just being firm when it starts so it stops quickly and editors have some breathing room. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:20, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Going on all the time: [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] and so on. Seems like a single person, though, but completely unbothered by reverts. — kashmiri ^TALK 03:59, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kashmiri: I'm keeping an eye on the articles in question, though my main concern would be keeping track of all the potential articles that might be targets in the future. Is there a way to compile a rough list? MezzoMezzo (talk) 09:46, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Can you help verify translations of articles from Arabic

Hello,

Would you be able to help evaluate the accuracy of translations of Wikipedia articles from Arabic to English Wikipedia?

File:Language icon.svg

This would involve evaluating a translated article on English Wikipedia by comparing it to the original Arabic article, and marking it "Pass" or "Fail" based on whether the translation faithfully represents the original. Here's the reason for this request:

There are a number of articles on English Wikipedia that were created as machine translations from different languages including Arabic , using the Content Translation tool, sometimes by users with no knowledge of the source language. The config problem that allowed this to happen has since been fixed, but this has left us with a backlog of articles whose accuracy of translation is suspect or unknown, including some articles translated from Arabic. In many cases, other editors have come forward later to copyedit and fix any English grammar or style issues, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the translation is accurate, as factual errors from the original translation may remain. To put it another way: Good English is not the same as good translation.

If you can help out, that would be great. Here's a sample of the articles that need checking: {{#if:Ahmed El-Fishawy|

• Ahmed El-Fishawy
• Amr Saad
• Hassan Hosny

All you have to do, is compare the English article to the Arabic article, and mark it "Pass" or "Fail" (templates {{Pass}} and {{Fail}} may be useful). (Naturally, if you feel like fixing an inaccurate translation and then marking it "Pass", that's even better, but it isn't required.)

If you can help, please let me know. Thanks! Mathglot (talk) 09:31, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

@Mathglot: So sorry for the late response! I'm back from my brief wikibreak. Are you still in need of assistance with the translation evaluations? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:27, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi MezzoMezzo, welcome back, and no need to apologize, we all have RLs and this is a volunteer encyclopedia. We finished up the first bunch (so no need to do those ones above anymore) but I think there are more now; shall I send you a couple of new ones? Mathglot (talk) 06:33, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

@Mathglot: Yes, by all means. I'm about to log now, but I'll be back again in less than a day, hopefully. I'll try to get started then. MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:35, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

@Mathglot: I'm very sorry, it appears that I hadn't properly formatted my ping the last time. I know it's quite late, but is verification still needed? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:27, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it's still needed. Shall I send you a few to evaluate? The ones above that are in strikeout type have already been done by someone else. here are a few more:

• 779. Adam Saif ✓ Pass
• 2253. Al-Fajaa (Mallah) ✓ Pass
• 466. Palestine College of Nursing ✓ Pass
• 918. The National Control Commission for the Protection of Personal Data ✓ Pass

You can place a {{pass}} or {{fail}} right on the line itself, or just plain text below if it's easier. Mathglot (talk) 06:44, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

@Mathglot: All four of them pass, though some editing was necessary. I still need to edit the filmography for Adam Saif for the sake of transliteration, but otherwise, the articles are accurate. Are there more on the list? MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:51, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Sunna and Sufism

Hi MezzoMezzo,

Hope you are well. Not sure whether you noticed User:Historiantheman's edits, esp. his push to add the Sunnism tag onto many Sufism-related articles (incl. changes to Template:Sunni Islam). First, I am not entirely sure whether it is is historically correct - in my understanding, Sufism was mostly a recation to what the mainstream religion offered, and Sufi tariqas cannot be credibly branded as being "Sunni" or "Shi'a". Then, such a wide-reaching change would merit a community consensus.

Let me know your view please. Regards, — kashmiri ^TALK 10:05, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Of course, "Sufism" (a problematic term as regards it connotations -- tasawwuf in Arabic) was, in the high classical era, understood to be the science corresponding to the third of the components of faith outlined in the Hadith of Gabriel, namely ihsan. Men like Abdul Qadir Jilani, Shadhili, Tijani, Rumi, etc were all Sunni jurists as much as mystics -- Jilani was Hanbali, Shadhili and Tijani Maliki, and Rumi Hanafi. Especially after Ghazali, who synthesized Juwayni Asharism, Junaydi Sufism, and Shafiism in his Ihya, Sufism became "orthodox" as it were -- though the reverence bestowed upon it prior is evident from the honorary manner in which the early Sunnis honored the memories of Hasan al-Basri, Junayd, Bayazid Bestami, et al. "Sufism" is not a sect or denomination seperate from Islam -- you have Sufism within Sunnism and Shiism; Kashmiri's desire for a "community consensus" is precisely what is outlined in Ghazali and by men like Ibn Qudamah, Ibn Hajar, et al -- Islam does not have a centralized magesterium -- why desire a "community consensus" for the Sufi orders when the Ashari and Maturidi schools of Sunni theology are rejected by the Salafi Sunnis; there is hardly a consensus in theology, so why would one expect there to be one in mysticism. To say "Sufism was mostly a reaction to what the mainstream religion offered" is erroneous on several fronts -- why, then was Ibn Taymiyyah incarcerated, at least partly, for denying saints? Why was the early Wahhabi movement branded heretical by the overwhelming majority of Sunni ulema when it appeared in Najd in the eighteenth-century -- precisely because they rejected saints and much of Sufi practice. Presumptions ungrounded in historical reality are the issues at stake -- I am assuming you understand MezzoMezzo. Historiantheman (talk) 10:58, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

The fact that someone studied and wrote about Hanbali jurisprudence, etc., does not make his entire spiritual tradition a part of Sunni Islam. I have reservations against branding all Sufi orders as either Sunni or Shi'a unless we have good sources and a community consensus. — kashmiri ^TALK 11:30, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

@Kashmiri: This looks like another case of an editor confusing his own knowledge with what can be substantiated in sources and agreed on by consensus. Which articles in particular are the ones in question? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:07, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Laylat al-Qadr

I'm editing the article Laylat al-Qadr and found this scholarly article entitled "Laylat al-Qadr as Sacred Time; sacred cosmology in Sunni kalam and Tafsir" (also found here). Would you mind dealing with adding relevant info into the article? --Mhhossein ^talk 18:18, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: Do you mean info from the article you found, or, in theory, more articles that could be used? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:28, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. The article is useful although more articles can be found. --Mhhossein ^talk 17:45, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Arabic phrase check

صاحن سبتة - I believe this phrase appearing on page "1" (the last page) is what is translated as "Lord of Septem" on page 19 in this book(it has English translation first, then the Arabic original, each numbered starting with 1). I cannot find صاحن in any online Arabic dictionary. I think it is a classical word that is no longer in common use. Can you recommend any resources for verifying before I quote it in an article?--Jpbrenna (talk) 20:04, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Oops, here is the link: https://books.google.com/books?id=ZE7gAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

@Jpbrenna: It's "صاحب سبتة" not "صاحن سبتة" (bāʾ not nūn), ("صاحب" in wiktionary), (صاحب in wikipedia). Regards -Aṭlas (talk) 00:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

@Jpbrenna and Aṭlas: It looks like this was resolved just before I logged in. "Sabta" is Ceuta, by the way. Was it only that one phrase for which a check was needed? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:26, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

I knew that Sabta is Ceuta. I didn't realize the other word was Sahib because as you noticed, I was typing nun for ba. That make s a lot more sense. What a stupid mistake. Thank you for pointing it out to me. I'm sorry to have wasted your time on this! --Jpbrenna (talk) 18:35, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

No problem -Aṭlas (talk) 22:33, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

@Jpbrenna: Oh, it isn't wasting time. The community has to help out even on small (but understandable) issues like typos. I hope that next time, I actually log in promptly enough to actually help out with the request. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:34, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Encyclopedia of Jews in the Islamic World

I do not have purchased access to Encyclopedia of Jews in the Islamic World. I occasionally access it via a friend. E-mail me if you would like any articles from this source or another academic source.Bless sins (talk) 03:05, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Ahmed Raza Khan

It made me laugh heavily when you deleted.the Shajra or lineage spirituality column commenting that How can Prophet inspire a person who lived so much years after him. Blah if you don't have the knowledge of Sufism and it's lineage , it's better not to give your opinions .let Wikipedia not be your understanding of world but the true facts evident. Please give me your sources of education etc in answer to prove even if you are liable to write on Islamic topics. --Saudmujadidi (talk) 05:48, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

@Saudmujadidi: If you have a problem with my edits, then the talk page for the article in question is a better place for that. In the meantime, I'd like to remind you of the Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Civility policies. MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:43, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Notability

There isn't really a centralized "is this topic notable enough to warrant starting an article?" noticeboard per se, although you could always raise questions at the specific WikiProject for the country or subject area that the topic relates to (such as Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia or Wikipedia:WikiProject Politicians). That said, we don't actually have any rule on here that we're restricted to English-language sources at all — as long as they're reliable ones that support the article's content, you're allowed to use sources in any language. (If somebody who can't read the original language has questions about a source or needs it translated or whatever, they can always go to the WikiProjects to ask somebody who can read that language for assistance, so we don't deprecate sourcing in other languages — and there are a lot of things and people that we should have articles about, but wouldn't be able to write anything if we had to restrict ourselves to English-language sourcing. In my own country, Canada, we would have to exclude some politicians from Quebec if we couldn't use French-language sources; we'd have a problem writing about most German politicians besides the chancellors if we couldn't use German-language sourcing; and on and so forth.) So the fact that you can only find one English-language source isn't actually a reason to doubt the notability of an Indonesian state governor — sources in either Indonesian or Ternate are perfectly acceptable too, if you can find some. Bearcat (talk) 14:16, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

@Bearcat: Thanks so much for the response. I'll start to compile additional sources in Indonesian, considering your comments. My initial guess was that a state governor ought to be notable, but I was unsure; your analogies to politicians in Quebec and Germany are quite demonstrative, though. Thanks so much for the response. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:40, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Maturidi

I have several RSs on Maturidism in electronic format. If you'd like to work on this topic and are willing to email me, I'd be happy to share. Eperoton (talk) 00:29, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

@Eperoton: I must apologize, I did see your comment and entirely forgot to respond. Regarding the article: is there another means for me to access the electronic sources? Are they a part of public domain, perhaps available on Archive or another site like that? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

No problem. None of the texts listed here are in the public domain, but you could find a number of them in PDF out there, depending on your perspective regarding copyright laws. Another classic summary recommended in the same article beyond the paywall is: Ayyub, Ali M. “Māturīdism.” In A History of Muslim Philosophy I. Edited and introduced by M. M. Sharif, 259–274. Wiesbaden, Germany: Otto Harrassowitz, 1963. Eperoton (talk) 00:41, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

@Eperoton: I've given this some thought, and I don't think I can download books without copyright. That cuts a bit close to ethical issues for me. I do think there are some ways for me to contribute, though. My local library does have copies of the Encyclopedia of Islam. It's an old edition, though. I don't think the information would have changed much since this is a historical topic. Do you think it would be acceptable? There are other sources in the Middle Eastern section as well I could try, so that isn't the end of my options, but it's the first that came to my mind. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:52, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Do you mean the first edition? The article on Maturidi there is rather sketchy, and scholarship in this area seems to have advanced considerably since then. Perhaps there's more relevant material in the Kalam article by the same author, which I don't have at hand. It's too bad you don't have email enabled, which would let you use the WP Resource Exchange, among other things. Judging from Abbasid Revolution, you're a superb content creator. Eperoton (talk) 01:24, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

@Eperoton: I didn't know about the Resource Exchange until you linked to it just now. That seems like a rather useful feature of the site. It's tempting, but not enough for me to allow anybody to email me when they feel like it. There were only two active users who had my email address, one an admin, and I believe both of them are retired now.

If I email you on your profile, can that be with the understanding that my address won't be given out, and that we might have to mention that as a disclaimer on certain discussions? FYI, I get accused of being a sockpuppet a lot. Usually by actual sockpuppets trying to deflect attention. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:48, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Giving out another editor's email address without permission falls under WP:OUTING, which I believe results in a summary indef block. In the rare unfortunate cases where personal info is posted to WP, one should alert an admin to get it quickly deleted from edit history. I don't think we need to make a disclaimer about communicating through email, unless we use email to coordinate edits, which I have no intention of doing. If you're concerned about privacy, you may want to create an anonymous email account just for Wikipedia use at Gmail, Yahoo, or another site. That's what I've done. Eperoton (talk) 23:32, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

@Eperoton: Oh, don't remind me of outing...I have very little faith in site admins regarding that. I've been outed twice, including the posting of my full name, screen names on other sites, and hometown. The edits were removed, but the perpetrator(s) was/were forgiven and still have active accounts. I was actually talked down to (by separate independent admins) when I requested they be blocked to prevent them from doing it again, as they're part of an off-Wiki campaign to harass my family. Nobody seemed to care. Coupled with the lack of enforcement of NPA even when insults are hurled right in the middle of ANI, and I don't have much faith in the system.

I'll email you, though. Just don't be surprised if your name pops up on a noticeboard randomly. There are a few other editors on here who can tell you stories about that happening whenever a POV warrior decides to come after me. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:31, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Wow, I'm very sorry to hear about your experience. Some admins are certainly much stricter about outing. I've emailed you a couple of sources. Eperoton (talk) 01:24, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Help with Islam in Turkey Page

Hello!

I would like your help reviewing the stunning amount of POV material on the Islam in Turkey page. Hopefully, we can use the talk page to come to a consensus that improves the page.

We will be using the talk page for the next month (until 9 November 2017) to discuss the material in question and come to a decision.

I would appreciate your input! User: Editor10! —Preceding undated comment added 02:31, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

New user can't make sections

Hello MezzoMezzo I'm removing the perspective about radicalism in Syaik Rabee Page, he is a Scholar that warns about khariji (terorist) Isis. So it is not true that he is radicalist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daweng (talk • contribs) 14:16, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

@Daweng: Wikipedia functions based off of reliable third party sources for all of its claims. If you want to help, I strongly recommend you review the Wikipedia:Citing sources and Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources content guidelines. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:20, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

October 2017

Please do not attack other editors, as you did at Talk:Malik ibn Anas. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. [23] MPS1992 (talk) 21:03, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

@MPS1992: Thanks for your concern, but please be aware of Wikipedia:Don't template the regulars. Essays are quite relevant sometimes, especially when an established editor is handling an IP troll. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:31, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

A regular would understand WP:BLP. That remains to be demonstrated. MPS1992 (talk) 04:27, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

@MPS1992: now I’m actually confused. What BLP issues are you referring to, and on which article? MezzoMezzo (talk) 11:35, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Wait, are you referring to this? Why didn't you inform me of that at the first message? Do you understand how your manner of commenting as well as the wording you're using can come off as hostile? MezzoMezzo (talk) 12:47, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

And yet referring to a living scholar as a "known pathological liar" and an "academic fraud" is not hostile? 78.144.68.129 (talk) 13:08, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

So these IP addresses are actually you, right? MezzoMezzo (talk) 02:39, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Was that addressed to me? MPS1992 (talk) 21:15, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Could you help with some Arabic sources?

I found your name at Wikipedia:Translators_available, and was hoping you could look over the non-English sources added here as they're being discussed at User_talk:Maxkris88#Famousbirthdays.com_as_a_source. If you could even just suggest how to find someone that could help, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --Ronz (talk) 21:17, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

@Ronz: I checked the two Arabic sources, MBC (a famous family of entertainment channels in the Mideast) and Mkhbr (I have no idea what it is). MBC claims she has 5m followers and Mkhbr claims she has "over" 5m, for what it's worth. I'm skeptical as to whether that renders a person notable (or if Mkhbr is even reliable), but Youtube celebrities isn't my forte in editing. I can just confirm that the information in the Arabic sources does match the text of the English draft article. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:43, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm more concerned what these references actually are. The MBC ref looks like a blog post for Joelle Mardinian's show, and could be there solely because of public relations efforts rather than any independent reporting. The Mkhbr piece is just a reprint of https://www.nawaret.com/%D9%81%D9%86/%D8%AA%D8%B9%D8%B1%D9%81-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89-%D9%86%D9%88%D8%B1-%D9%86%D8%B9%D9%8A%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA , whose format and presentation suggests it might also be the result of a pr campaign. It appears to be based upon an alarabiya.net interview that I cannot find.

Thanks again for the help. I've directed the editor to focus on finding sources that meet notability criteria. If you have other suggestions, they'd be appreciated. --Ronz (talk) 15:10, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

@Ronz: I checked Nawaret, and it looks like Stepfeed: a lot of non-journalists posting about culture and scandals. Whether the piece itself was PR or not (it does look like it), a source like that still isn’t reliable. They have over 1,000 contributors and no editorial board listed. This is hard for me to comment on because, like I said, I don’t know the expected outcomes for YouTube celebrities. I would honestly prefer that such a subject received real, mainstream coverage in media first, and she hasn’t even in Arabic. But are there other standards for Internet celebrities? I don’t know. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:05, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Neologism‎

Greetings! A wikipedian keeps linking here the neologism Afro-Russian instead of Russian or Russian of unknown African origin. However, the url doesn't actually use the neologism; it just indicates that he was of African origin. More importantly, MOS:OPENPARA stipulates that-- "the opening paragraph should usually provide context. In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if the person is notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable. Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." Could you please have a quick look? Kind Regards-- Soupforone (talk) 16:54, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

@Soupforone: I can certainly take a look at the issue. If there is another editor involved, though, then they’ll also need to be aware that I’ve been asked for a third opinion by another party. Full disclosure is important. MezzoMezzo (talk) 19:27, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I've left a disclosure note on the talkpage. Thanks for taking a look at this. Kind Regards-- Soupforone (talk) 04:26, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Greetings! Have you perhaps had a chance yet to see the lede? If so, could you please leave your thoughts on the talkpage? Your insight as an experienced rollbacker would be most valuable and appreciated. Kind Regards-- Soupforone (talk) 04:44, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

You might want to see this!

Hey, I just meant to let you know about this. --Mhhossein ^talk 16:24, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: That's very courteous to point that out; glad to know that civility does still exist here. Honestly, though, don't worry about it. What you're seeing is a group of sock and/or meat puppet IPs who were upset only at the specific group of neo-traditionalists I criticized (Haddad, Keller, Qabbani, etc.) and was sensitive about any sort of criticism being revealed. In all cases, my points were made and the articles changed for the better, so they're free to redact, delete, or archive whatever I said. Thanks for noticing, though - I think many of the old school Islamic topics editors from the 2000s are inactive now, so it's nice to see you still around. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:38, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome MezzoMezzo! Thanks for the recognition. Users like you, who have got a quite correct of understanding of the policies and guidelines after years of editing, are much needed here. Btw, I registered my username just about three years ago! --Mhhossein ^talk 13:30, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Khalid ibn al-Walid good article reassessment

Khalid ibn al-Walid, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:53, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

@Emir of Wikipedia: Sorry for the delay. Are there still ongoing issues with the article in question? MezzoMezzo (talk) 05:22, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

They are ongoing I think, but if you don't want to help right not then just demote the article please. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 10:30, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Please help with Abdul Qadir Jilani page

the saint infobox isnt coming properly...Historiantheman (talk) 09:38, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

@Historiantheman: Sorry for the delay. I know it's been a while, but has the issue been resolved? MezzoMezzo (talk) 05:11, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, MezzoMezzo. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Yasonna Laoly has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, MezzoMezzo. Yasonna Laoly, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:01, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Yasonna Laoly

Hello! Your submission of Yasonna Laoly at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! – Muboshgu (talk) 01:27, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Kristiane Backer

Assalamu alaykum my dear friend, I hope you're fine. Please can you look at the Kristiane Backer and its recent edit history. Another editor is filling it up with detail drawn from sources that clearly fail to meet RS standards. I have pointed out that Wikipedia requires reliable and published third-party sources, but the editor doesn't seem to understand this. Thanks and best regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 04:42, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Ismail ibn Musa Menk

Assalamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. I hope you’re fine. I’ll be very grateful indeed if you can help me keep the Ismail ibn Musa Menk page neutral and properly referenced. One editor has a real commitment to a total whitewash. Thanks and best wishes, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 17:33, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

@GorgeCustersSabre: walaikum as salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. This case is...interesting, to say the least. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:36, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Arabic translation

Hi, please can you assist with Arabic-to-English translation at Talk:2018_Gaza_border_protests#Images, much appreciated! Waddie96 (talk) 16:58, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

@Waddie96: I'm awfully sorry for missing your request. I took a bit of a wikibreak due to extreme busyness outside of the Internet. If there's anything else you need translation help with, I'll do my best. MezzoMezzo (talk) 09:57, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Editing a webpage

Dear MezzoMezzo,

I'm part of the European Young Chemists' Network (https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/European_Young_Chemists%27_Network). In order to reach to a higher audience we've planned to translate the wikipedia article of our association to several languages, including arabic. We've even translated the text through a native friend (https://www.odrive.com/s/c18c1533-25b3-45ea-af38-3804d475115e-5bb4e68f) but I've tried and failed to upload the content since I haven't been able to surf the arabic version of wikipedia, even less edit it. If you don't mind and have some time we'll be really pleased if you can upload the translated content for us.

Thanks for your time!

Cheers,

Diego ∽∽∽∽ — Preceding unsigned comment added by DiegoGG1985 (talk • contribs) 15:01, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

@DiegoGG1985:I'm so sorry for missing your earlier message! I'm thrilled to see young people getting involved in such a project, and now that I'm sort of back from my Wikibreak, I'd be glad to help. Do you still require assistance on this point? MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:27, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

@MezzoMezzo: Hi! Thank you very much for your answer. Yes, I still require assistance. I'd be great if you could help by uploading the EYCN wikipage in arabic (you can find and already translated version here: https://www.odrive.com/s/c18c1533-25b3-45ea-af38-3804d475115e-5bb4e68f) and linking it to the english version. Thanks again for your kind help! If you need anything at some point to be translated to Spanish you know where to find me.

@DiegoGG1985: Alright, give me a few hours and I'll try to get on that. I'm on my way out the door currently, but I will be at my computer again later in the day, and I'll make sure to do what I can at that time. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:37, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

@DiegoGG1985: I'm very sorry to say that the name of the article is, apparently, on the blacklist for Arabic Wikipedia. I've been trying for a day, but I receive the same result every time. Has an Arabic-speaking classmate of yours tried to create the article previously? If so, and it was deleted, then that could be causing the problem.

If not, then I'll need to investigate further to see why the article is on such a blacklist. In that case, I'll try to let you know as soon as I receive an answer over on the Arabic site. Again, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:18, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

@MezzoMezzo: Hi again! And thanks again for you help. I'm sorry this is taking so much of your time. I'm not really sure if somebody tried to create the article before, it could make sense. Let's wait for an answer from the Arabic site and please, let me know if there is something else I could do.

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, MezzoMezzo. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Possibly Arabic sources

We have these articles:

• • Gesudaraz I
  • Syed Adam Banuri
  • Syed Ali ibn Ismail
  • Syed Jafar al-Qa’im
  • Syed Muhammad Masood
  • Ali ibn Ismail
  • Syed Muhammad Tayyab Shah
  • Sheikh Isa Mashwani
  • Syed Muhammad Ahmad Shah
  • Syed Faateh
  • Syed Qaaf

They are all suspected of being hoaxes or not verifiable, just like another article that was deleted from the same author. I'm not certain if they are all Arabic; I think so. Could you help with the translations? The relevant discussion is at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/incidents#Possible hoax on Syed Soleman Shah. IWI (chat) 23:41, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Please accept my apologies for the late response, User:ImprovedWikiImprovment; I’ve been absent for quite some time. The issue seems to have been resolved; is that correct? MezzoMezzo (talk) 15:20, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi MezzoMezzo

I worked with you on editing the Muawiyah I page a few years ago. How are you getting on. Are you an administrator now. Johnleeds1 (talk) 12:36, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi MezzoMezzo

I added some content to some pages like Treaty of Amritsar and Kashmir conflict and Gilgit_Agency but Kautilya3 keeps on removing it even though it has all the references. What can I do. Johnleeds1 (talk) 09:46, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello User:Johnleeds! Yes, I remember you. I’ve been gone for a while. Give me a few days and I’ll try to get my bearings again, though I imagine that I might need some time making simple copy edits to get comfortable again. MezzoMezzo (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

ArbCom 2019 election voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2019 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 on Monday, 2 December 2019. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2019 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Centre of Muslims

As-Salam O Alaikum! Brother,

I recently created Wikiproject Centre of Muslims. It is created to improve the articles about places with more than 80% of Muslim Population. After sometime the percentage could be reduced to 50% (places with majority Muslim Population). Similar wikiprojects are working like in the case of [Australia], The only difference is that their scope is countrywide and scope of this Wikiproject is larger, i.e Muslim World.

It was put on Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Centre of Muslims because of solo participant. Someone also asked that "Would Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam be interested in this project as a Geography task force?" and I think that Centre of Muslims project should be merged with Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam's Geography task force. Can you please guide me regarding this?

Thank You in anticipation! --Muhammadahmad79 (talk) 16:14, 22 June 2020 (UTC)