User talk:Hydrox/Archive 3

Finnish parliamentary election, 2011

yall set to work on this article? were heading for something notable and similar to the sweden page..Lihaas (talk) 19:52, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Lihaas, my friend, I've been ramping up for this article at least since autumn, but you beat me to mentioning it :) Let's try to make this article just as good quality as the Sweden article. I can promise there is some absolutely kickass Creative Commons vector graphics underway, that I'm working on just right now, unseen ever before in any Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons. So at least what it comes to the tools for writing a comprehensive, balanced and well-illustrated article, I think we are headed for the big "win".

Also, can't help mentioning that the atmosphere right now feels it is gonna be one historic election. No on can ignore the elephant in the room: They have risen by 400% from the margins to one of the big three four. So, everything's set for a historic even in April, now we only need to cover it! :) --hydrox (talk) 22:03, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Nice, eery parallels...hopefully we can keep the mad mobs away. I must say the sweden election article was the start of my keeping the election articles up to date around the world (esp. when others dont)

so lets try and get a campaign elections section going, possibly put stuff there instead of controversies unless some major stuff starts. im having trouble finding polling for it throughLihaas (talk) 22:17, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

That's a good starting point. You can find the party convention (puoluekokous) election results in the official protocol (pöytäkirja) that documents the meeting for archiving. You can find these on each party's website (sadly though, most are in Finnish and/or Swedish only) or by going to the register office. Here for example is the Social Democratic Party 2008 convention protocol. On page 202 we find that contestants for party chairperson were Jutta Urpilainen, Erkki Tuomioja, Tarja Filatov, Ilkka Kantola and Miapetra Kumpula-Natri. Urpilainen received 218 votes, Tuomioja 132 and everyone else zero votes. Note that the number of votes is low; selection is done by a college of delegates. --hydrox (talk) 23:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

dont know why im getting excited (probably anice change from the hordes and fights on here) but i did and am doing some researching. added some stuff there. check it out. ill try and start getting to this but you mayve have to do the others as i cant speak swedish/finnish.

also i think we could give a brief about each partys stance either in the election of historical issues in the parties section. the finnisn name can be italicised in brackets.

also this

is there a Sapmi party like in norway? (forget the name there)Lihaas (talk) 02:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

You must be referring to a Sami party. No, there's no Sami party. All parties that can participate in the election are listed on List of political parties in Finland (the list is up to date). I'll try to check the article today evening European time. --hydrox (talk) 11:51, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

were starting to get pov problems with TF that we had with SD. we need update the campaign for the other parties. Any news going on?Lihaas (talk) 00:20, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure, let's write a similiar summary of other major parties' platforms. I'll be busy tomorrow, but let's see what I can do over weekend and friday. --hydrox (talk) 00:40, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

cool, give me a shout. im working on all the arab stuff right now.

also, a question unrelated to wikipedia but on finn politics: this islamic party over there is unsourced on here but is it true thats its made of ethnically indigenous finns who converted or is it others? the former would make it more rational and to me legitimate.Lihaas (talk) 02:15, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

update: major update added to the page including the recent debate (not sure of the deate, but its after the release of the latest Feb polls) and background info on the new constitution. check it out and see if it needs any more or clarifications.Lihaas (talk) 06:26, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Kiveinmi said shed work with TF...interesting, and better than the dictatorship status qupo across the seas ;)

also should we include this? Jyrki Katainen's reaction is very likely pertaining to the rise of TFa nd fear of losses in the election that is some 5 weeks away.Lihaas (talk) 09:02, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

dude, your pm's gone mad. bailing out the failurse. at that rate finland will need a bailout ;)

so, soini for pm...? looking pretty close now judging by the additions on the page (which have cleared out the pov for the large pasrt. we just need details on the SPP.Lihaas (talk) 15:38, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Swedish People's Party? It's mostly a party for the Swedish language minority, but also identifies as a liberal alternative in regards to economic and social values, like supporting immigration. I think Soini won't be the PM, TF was in decline in the previous poll, and analysts generally agree there is lots of air in their poll figures, TF voters will be the hardest to mobilize on Sunday.

But if nothing else, I think the TF have managed to almost totally hijack the central themes of the election: everything's been about immigration or European bailout money. The divides go (ignoring extraparliamentary paties) so that TF identifies as anti-immigration while everyone else sees opportunities in it, and also that TF is against bailouts. SDP and Left Alliance made a compromise and said they'd support contributing to the bailout funds to save Central European banks only if the banks would have to take some credit loss, calling for "investor responsibility." The sad thing TF don't tell you is that Finland can't be in euro without contributing to common stability.. no party that takes itself seriously can match their populist claims.

Ps. Sadly it appears extremist activism has landed in this election like in Sweden last year too. Last night eco-activists sabotaged purpose-built free-for-all-parties election billboards, and on Sunday there was some extreme right activists apparently attacking voters and party members in a skirmish over photography in Oulu. Not (yet?) in the article, as the details of attack remain very unclear. Also, TF campaign offices in Helsinki have been repeatedly sabotaged. --hydrox (talk) 21:16, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

moved your stuff away from the debates section

but we also need all this stuff in the article. like SDP/Left with the euro banks.

all this about TF may be true but i think theyre still easily the better of europes "far-right" parties. at least theyre not 1-issue parties that are incapable of running a government ;) but i guess they have a good marketing eteam. were setting up got an interesting weekend...Lihaas (talk) 22:55, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

wed also need to eventually update the police investigation to put the article above B-grade. at least GA should be good when we incorporate full resultes. then we can nominate for FA.Lihaas (talk) 23:02, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Question: will Soini be an MP and MEP? is that allowed? I believe Gerry Adams is both right now, but i could be wrong.Lihaas (talk) 23:05, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

THIS IS gonna be the best election article on wikipedia, escluding the ones with the mad mobs from english speaking countries (usa,. uk, aus, can, india). added a lot. i think if we answer the tags then its already a B article and GA as soon as its don e next week.

also, per your TF criticisms [1] seems conteroversial;. but it seems to be the lay party worker not the national levellike soini who's persona seems attractive to many voters (see the poll section). whats the story on that?Lihaas (talk) 17:43, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Seems like usual election talk to me. Analysts generally say TF supporters are not the average guy in politics, so no wonder if there were some over the top reactions. --hydrox (talk) 00:14, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Problem

the polling for january contradicts with this [2], i cant read it so can you fix that,.? although i do know that TF are apparently much closer to 3rd place on that chart than on the wikipage.

Also these two [3][4] from the same source contradict each other.

Also this january is different from the page. Lihaas (talk) 05:32, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

coming back to the article? ;) Lihaas (talk) 11:23, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Lihaas, I've been very busy with work and other stuff in Wikipedia. But I haven't forsaken it, just there's still time to the election :) --hydrox (talk) 12:59, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I made some visual contributions to the article. I've been mostly working (offline) on this map lately.. But now I can easily generate more Finland maps, and make a similiar party-popularity map as in Swedish election after the results are in. --hydrox (talk) 02:14, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Now I have a huge backlog to catch up with the article text.. There's been lots of stuff in the news .. and many of them could go in the article. Election is in two weeks and the article is still quite TF-heavy like you said. --hydrox (talk) 02:18, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Nice to see you back. migrating back to the election articles myself from the warring on the arab world stuff ;)

if you post the links ill try and add some, and the rest ill leave for you (finnish ones im guessing)

couple of things though:

[5] im not sure of the details of this but can you see if its right?

Totally agree with this one. hydrox (talk) 17:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

also, im a little wary of this this and this. Both terms are correct, but should we just stick to the common term used internationally for the english language page?Lihaas (talk) 16:40, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, the thing is that official English-lang. materials use "electoral district". I boldly made the change (17 pagemoves and re-directed all redirects) yesterday. As a non-native speaker I feel like "constituency" and "electoral district" are pretty synonymous in this sense, but I would tend to give precedence to what official materials use. In the light of this "official use" by ministry of justice materials (such as vaalit.fi), do you still feel like "constituency" fits better? I am especially interested in British usage, as it has the most "official" status of the English dialects in Finland. --hydrox (talk) 17:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Good point. i might be based bn american lexicon. lets put it up at talk or scout related pages (like uk election last year)

also, should we move the map to another section?

and we need to add the recent changeof PM since the last electionLihaas (talk) 19:36, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

also can we get a breakdown of seats by the disctricts map you put in the background?

weve got a link on talkpage of the whole list of mps and could manually break it down. though im afraid i dont know all the districtys/seat names. the ip on the page could hlep you there::also youre r2 note isnt quite clar. not sure what is t means about who elected in 2007 and 2011 )(wouldnt the former be irrelevant here?)(Lihaas (talk) 17:06, 21 April 2011 (UTC)).

per [6][7][8] seems like wya too many susbection and cluttering up the contents box. although for at least the first one, precedence has meant/shown we dont need re-title the results bit, mainly because the election on itself then becomes empty.(Lihaas (talk) 09:26, 22 April 2011 (UTC)).

Well, okay I changed some of them back, but we can't have all the headings as ;, as it is a violation of the MOS. This also makes life hard for eg. search engines, as they probably can not tell the context from non-standard markup. WP:TOC has some pointers to changing the layout of the TOC, if you think it is messing up the page layout. --hydrox (talk) 09:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I've changed it. TOC now displays only headers up to the depth of three: ===Header===. ====Four==== and smaller is not shown. --hydrox (talk) 09:43, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Question

[9] has the latest poll results but it says TF hit a record high of 184.%. when was this, we dont have it on the apage.Lihaas (talk) 15:40, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I am making a polling diagram in a few days. I'll run through the poll statistics then. --hydrox (talk) 00:14, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

for different polls or the ones on the page?

Also is this chap Jari Lindström swdish? if so what he doing in the TF.(Lihaas (talk) 19:23, 20 April 2011 (UTC)).

Definitely Finnish (citizen), because going for the parliament. A quick tutorial to Finnish language politics terminology: Finnish-Swedish (fi:suomenruotsalainen, sv:finlandssvensk) means a citizen of Finland with Swedish as mother language. These people are not Swedes, but Swedish-speaking Finns. They generally cheer for Finland in hockey games and conscript in the Finnish army - so Finns. So the question should be, "is he Swedish-speking". I'll answer that as well: he does not say what is his mother language on his home page, but judging that he comes from an unilingually Finnish city, probably Finnish. People can have Swedish last name without being Swedish-speaking, eg. as a result of marriage, or due to the fact that only as recently as 70 years ago having a Swedish last name was seen as elevating one's social status. --hydrox (talk) 19:38, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

oh yeah, Finnish citizen obviously (wouldnt be able to sit in parliament otherwise). I meant ethnically Swede, but you seem to have answered that ;) Would still be strange to see a swedish speaker in TF, no?(Lihaas (talk) 23:21, 20 April 2011 (UTC)).

Don't see why would that be a problem. Even if TF is rather Finnish-speaking, most urban Finnish Swedes (such as those in Helsinki) still speak absolutely flawless Finnish, and there is no telling someone's home language unless they make an explicit point about it. TF is not anti-Swedish or anti-Finnish Swedish – just absolutely not – and even if the media of Sweden is apparently trying to portray them as such. TF is against compulsory Swedish-language education at the elementary school and university level. However, the central themes of the party's campaign were euroskepticism and stricter immigration policy. So if someone whose mother language is Swedish finds these values supportable I don't see why they couldn't join the TF, just like the party has also colored and immigrant members. Unlike the SD, TF has no connections to fascist groups. I personally see them as a popular protest movement, much like the Tea Party movement in the states. --hydrox (talk) 01:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

True, but at least theoretically why would an ethnic swede (if he is) oppopse changes against the swedish curriculum in schools. I suppose he is a True Finne ;) (btw- is that the exact trnalsation of its finnish name?)(Lihaas (talk) 12:57, 21 April 2011 (UTC)).

Jari Lindström is a Finnish speaker. He only has a Swedish surname, his first name is Finnish. But there is one Swedish speaking TF MP, Tom Packalén from Helsinki. But Swedish speakers of Finland don't usually consider themselves to be ethnically Swedes (although Åland is a case of its own.) --89.27.103.116 (talk) 03:47, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

btw- youre watching the STL page too? since when? i did most of the stuff but have forgotten it for awhile, id better check it out soon.(Lihaas (talk) 17:08, 21 April 2011 (UTC)).

STL page? --hydrox (talk) 09:30, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Special GTribunal for Lebanon(Lihaas (talk) 13:47, 22 April 2011 (UTC)).

Yes, though it's rather stalled now because: "The pre-trial judge Daniel Fransen is now reviewing the indictment and thousands of pages of supporting evidence, a process which could take months according to an STL spokesman." --hydrox (talk) 13:56, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

you know what that means right? intl community scared shitless about the after-effects esp. since the fall of the govt. Lebanese government of November 2009

havent rally been following tt though since the last few weeks/months, havent even visited my ol' lebanon website al manar in awhile.(Lihaas (talk) 18:53, 22 April 2011 (UTC)).

Election over

Heh, how bad was my guess of TF supporters not mobilizing. Absolute total victory for TF, even better than what the polls showed. Nothing like this has ever happened in the Finnish politics. Ps. You might be interested in commenting at Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#True_Finns_party_wins_election_in_Finland. It would be great to get a rush of editors to the article. I am a bit dissatisfied with the current state of our references, as few follow {{cite}} template guidelines. --hydrox (talk)

holy shit! within a hair-trigger of the 2nd most popular...soini could be PM soon...;)

someone said in polling that tehy could be off as TF instructed its peeps not top speak out(ie- controveersy bound to emanate), but they pulled it off in what must be a top election for analysis and the failure of polling. (think ill be bold and increase its importance on the talk page)

sorry, i was away for a few days fixing some work stuff and couldnt get onlibne, was damn anxious to know the result too, but it seems the markets reacted as such. which is something we need to add about reactions. were there protests like in sweden?(Lihaas (talk) 19:00, 20 April 2011 (UTC)).

Well, no protests except some silly stuff in social media, like many people saying that this is shocking they are gonna move out from Finland and such :) No problem if you have work, I for one know how frustrating it is to have professional commitments taking time away from my wiki-editing ;) I haven't had time for this article at all as much as I wanted because of hectic work situation. Hope it will ease by summer when the students set in. PS. I overwrote your edit to results template. Finland is truly bilingual country down to constitution, and neither of the languages (Finnish or Swedish) has an officially 'primary' or a 'preferred' status. So it is most neutral to use the language the party prefers to use (legal corporations, such as parties, can of course officially establish the corporations "primary language" in their bylaws), and for Swedish People's Party this is Swedish. Also, Åland representative column I will disambiguate a bit.. --hydrox (talk) 19:16, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

well thats certainly not rs. but you heard that too. i actually had an ol' finn friend that ive conversed with more in the last few weeks than in the last odd-decade since school. he said the same ;) are you a professor? of poli sci? ive discovered the term psephology AFTER graduating and i think i should habve done that instead fo poli sci/foreign affairs ;)

could we list both languages?

i was also curious if the aland fella has a party or just basically unopposed. the swedes peoples arent running a candidate there?(Lihaas (talk) 23:25, 20 April 2011 (UTC)).

Look here (2007) for the answer. SPP could put up candidates in Åland I guess, but Åland has a low number of voters and they always get exactly ONE representative in the parliament, so it's not really a party but a person election. Åland has BTW 100% political autonomy, exemption from Finnish conscription, own postal system and a special area within the EU, ie. exempted from some of the freedom of movement stuff (a fundamental pilar of the EU!), EU tax exemptions and can sell snuff despite EU regulations (IIRC). In 1995 they could have even decided not to join EU at all, creating a truly bizarre situation, but they decided to join EU with these special exepmtions. I am not at all an expert on Åland issues though, should visit the place first before talking ;). --hydrox (talk) 14:19, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Also as an aside, have you seen article that liks to ANOTHER election and back? this election is unique. links to the upcoming portugal article and from there i also linked it back here. anyhoo, check this out and edit away the change you may deem necessary. Portuguese_legislative_election,_2011 --> the background part, but thats more fact, the Portuguese_legislative_election,_2011#Ongoing_bailout_issues could perhaps use another eye.

oh my word, look how this shot u p on the 18 [10](Lihaas (talk) 23:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC)).

i agree bailout will be most important, but thats just synthesis of the educated (you and me)

but what are your bets on Soini's new ministerial portfolio? makes sense for stubbs to continue (continuity and all that), so i reckon its finance or defense; and finance seems to be the hot issue he ran on. then you can definately discount an EU bailout (IMF will continue the seedy games though)

have you seen Yes Minister? admin affairs can be a lot bigger than expected, esp. when you want change. TF should also take education ;)

Further, the odds of an early election mayu be stacking up now. when was the last tiem that happened in finland?(Lihaas (talk) 10:31, 22 April 2011 (UTC)).

You ask have I seen Yes Minister? Haha, of course I have, and it was one of the best laughs I've had. I ain't yet seen Yes, Prime Minister though. Soini's cabinet will indeed need to work hard to push their policies to action. Minister portfolio speculation (established expert) at YLE[11]: Katainen for PM (surprise, surprise!), Urpilainen finance, Stubb to continue his well-praised work as foreign (has excellent relations to Hillary Clinton BTW), Soini for either interior or employment and economy + some (yet unknown) TF candidate for justice. Halla-aho of TF has also said he'd like to get interior.

New election? Isn't that a bit early? See Belgium. If a cabinet can not be formed the caretaker government (Kiviniemi I) will continue until new cabinet can be formed. No new election is organized, I would hope – that would violate the democratic process, because the election result is valid – now its the job of the politicans to adapt to the outcome. Remember that if TF is too strict in their policies, we could see "Kiviniemi II" eg. NCP, Centre, Greens, SPP + X (eg. Christian Democrats?) OR a "national unity government" eg. SDP, NCP, Centre and everyone else in the opposition.. :) Personally hope TF in the cabinet but compromising on their hillybilly EU policies. --hydrox (talk) 13:28, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

classic. best comedy since My Fair Lady, they dont make stuff like that anymore, since the americans invaded the world with Friends ;)

what abou defense? forgot interior, thats big too, but what will Soini take? and does he have to give up his MEP seat? if not then he can create a new EU-affais ministry...;) Justice/law is big too though, but too small for the highest vote getter in the election.

its not illegal. parliamentary govts fall all the time. a la portugal, australia, canada, india, etc.(Lihaas (talk) 13:54, 22 April 2011 (UTC)).

Not illegal, but would as far as I know mean to the common citizens that the parties were not satisfied with the result, so people will have to vote again. Let's just hope they can form a new government. BTW last time re-election happened I think in 1972, when President Kekkonen was not satisfied with the Parliament's composition. Sometimes this guy's actions were only a head short of those of his pal's in the East --hydrox (talk) 14:04, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

ah that way. yes thats what it generall means ;)

just had an idea though: perhaps Soini would not take a ministership/tone an issue in exchange for a presidency nom next year>?

He has not yet commented on presidency much, always saying 'let's wait over the parliamentary election'.. so.. hard to know? Really skeptic of Soini's chances for presidency, so many people are against TF.. seems like people are either for or against, few are in between. President generally has to be a bit popular with everyone. PS. In the Finnish system every party can nominate president candidates. Given that Soini has TF in the tight grip, he wouldn't have problem getting the president nom if he wanted --hydrox (talk) 14:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Granted, BUT what about an accomodation of support in return for at least outside support for a govt. NCP and SDP get their important portfolios and TF get at least something out of it. mostly ceremonial posting, no? it would show europe as the tf wantS. everyone happy? except CP ;)

though the soc-dems in finance is a reciple for disaster...need a conservative there(Lihaas (talk) 14:36, 22 April 2011 (UTC)).

LOL'd ;) --hydrox (talk) 14:40, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Sauli Niinistö was maybe the best finance Finland ever had. Katainen was finance in Kiviniemi I, but now that he's gonna be PM.. Don't know if Niinistö would be as nice as to become MoF again. He was the speaker of the retired parliament. SDP finance minister is not unheard of in Finland though, eg. Eero Heinäluoma, who is still in the politics BTW. --hydrox (talk)

Also see Erkki Liikanen, SDP and MoF. Now at the Bank of Finland though and not available for the MoF, but still a red politican who's up to date with the economics (I hope;).. --hydrox (talk) 15:08, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Lasse Männistö BTW there's a young and ambitious NCP guy for the Minister of Finance, has M.Sc in finance from Aalto University, got elected in Helsinki --hydrox (talk) 15:17, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

they can run fin min, but is it best for finland? in times of austerity you dont want a lefty there. although they did oppose the bailout to a lesser measure. TF shouldnt oppose them there ;) the main thing is trying to figure out 1. what Soini gets, and 2. how high a portfolio the TF can get (ie- how much influence in govt)(Lihaas (talk) 21:42, 23 April 2011 (UTC)).

i think were practically GA at least if not FA. anything short for a nomination? think there are a couple of tags on the page. and i imagine wed need to complete the govt formation bit in the next few weeks.

ooh, also, how come the enhancements to the sweden page (per the barnstar) are lagging here? isnt your knowledge AND interest stronger here? even if youre from aland it still should be, no? ;)Lihaas (talk) 00:59, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Finance ministry?? ARRGHHH!! and for aff? kicked out stubbs after he was the 2nd most popular in the entire lection?

not to mention 2 IMPORTANT portfolios for the little teenie swedes??? Whta if theres a war with sweden?? guess we can count on civil servants..Lihaas (talk) 07:05, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Help

need your help to finish this List of MPs in the 72nd Finnish parliament. suppose we can take parties and divide the workl between 3?Lihaas (talk) 02:00, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure, willing to help. --hydrox (talk) 02:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

the ip did TF, im doing NCP, so i guess soc-dems for you? then we can finish up the small ones anyhoo.Lihaas (talk) 12:53, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

weve only got soc-dems and most of CP to go..

anyhoo, i nom'd the election page Talk:Finnish parliamentary election, 2011 for GA (see the tag on top.)Lihaas (talk) 02:03, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

we coudl very well hae the first non-english-speakign FA election article [12]. any help? what of those graphis you were workign on?Lihaas (talk) 18:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Hey, and sorry for my inactivity again. I work in software development, and the current project I am on has been eating heavily on my time and energy for the last 3 months. However, the project will be finished at the week's end, after which I will take some vacation, to among other work on this article.

Someone else did the map graphics, but it could be still improved a bit. I want to also do a well-referenced polling performance graph and other visualization. --hydrox (talk) 20:50, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

no probs. the pollin graph akin to waht you did for sweden was what i hoped for, but een the detailed election results graoph by districts woyuld be nivce. Whenevr you have time.

UPDATE: the article is pending a GA review (but it takes forever). Ive also asked for a peer review as a basis for an eventual FA nomination. Its pending here [13] you may be interested in following it, or asking an uninvolved editer for his views. Obviously you me and the IP cant review it as were directly involved.(Lihaas (talk) 20:16, 15 May 2011 (UTC)).

See the talk page. I made some changes but theres some clarification needed (eg- that Nauclear sits with the spp)(Lihaas (talk) 23:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)).

Hello again Lihaas. I wrote I would be having vacation this week, but current work situation is so that it will have to wait until June. BTW seeing your comment on ITN/C, are you from Lebanon by any chance? If you want to keep the communcation confidental, you can mail me . --hydrox (talk) 02:39, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Nice to see you back, even if for an interim. Ive been working with the ip to enhance that article per the peer review. I think the only tag on the page right now is the Aland-spp ref needed.

which comment on ITN incidentally? im not even arab though, but i do follow that (though not for a few weeks, mainly b/c the WP mobs are on those articles). i am asian though (would you believe from the TF comments? evidence enough thats its not racist ;))(Lihaas (talk) 08:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)).

I was just referring to this comment on ITN/C, and you also previously asked about the Special Tribunal as well. Recommend vacationing there, it's a beautiful country! --hydrox (talk) 10:36, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, just cause i was interedted adn did the whole peage really (esp. b/c of that important event). Would love to go...when elections are there, itll be fun ;) (but all this "isliamist" nonsense they talk about is rubbish...hezb. members from waht i here are from religiopus fanatics as the american/western media portrays). there was thi s book by an american jew who visited and h e said the same thing)

Incidentally, can we get a graph like this Members of the 31st Dáil for "opur" finland page?(Lihaas (talk) 23:48, 26 May 2011 (UTC)).

Can you help with that newbie editor whos muchking about with convention and then not resorting to BRD? (hes alsready resorted to NPA instead of contrent discussions)Lihaas (talk) 09:36, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

nom'd for GA but some kook came over to mess with conention (which is in his right but then he doesnt adhere to BRD) and now its [rightfully] put off. can you help sort some issues on the talk page.Lihaas (talk) 08:23, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Suomen Sisu

whats the story with them? any connection to TF? a google search leads to blog posts ready to condemn as "neo-nazi". but is there a connection we can add here to electoral politics?(Lihaas (talk) 04:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)).

Some TF members are also member of Sisu, but the connection is rather weak. --hydrox (talk) 02:39, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

yeah, weve just added it to the page, the IP got the details.(Lihaas (talk) 08:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)).

URGENT

we need to finish this in 7 days to be GA. im moving house and will not be free till Monday so can you start Talk:Finnish_parliamentary_election,_2011#GA_Review and ill work through then.(Lihaas (talk) 11:08, 3 June 2011 (UTC)).

Thanks

Why thank you. Nice to be apprecisated ;)

Any Finnish graphics coming due? were at GA (almost) with all stuff done. Gpnna FA it soon..?(Lihaas (talk) 19:39, 18 June 2011 (UTC)).

I promise, this weekend. It will only be a few graphs though. --hydrox (talk) 20:34, 12 September 2011 (UTC) Argh... surprise trip to other town, was offline for the whole weekend. --hydrox (talk) 19:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

FA nom

We got the article to GA.

Now we should try for FA. just 2 deadlinks i see as a prob.

1. The National Coalition Party re-elected incumbent Minister of Finance Jyrki Katainen the party leader on 12 June,
2. However, there were some problems with expatriate voting as the embassy in Germany ran out of ballots on 9 April forcing an extension to 11 April.

Any sources in finnish? tried but couldnt find.Lihaas (talk) 23:23, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Papal conclave, 2005

the article is utter rubbish but apparently a FA on the Finnish one (didnt know its a catholic country for the most part). but can you help improve the english one from that?(Lihaas (talk) 19:29, 22 April 2011 (UTC)).

Sorry, don't really have time for this article right now. :/ --hydrox (talk) 02:02, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

kivienmy/vanhannen govt

is their a page for it? we could add her cabinet [14]Lihaas (talk) 23:20, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

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re: your message

Hi Hydrox, I've left a reply to your message on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 23:15, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Hydrox, I've left you another reply on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 01:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit the mistakes, don't simply revert

Hi. Thanks for notifying on the date convention, but please, do not just revert my edits. I spent quite a lot of time writing that... Correct just the mistakes, please. Thanks. -- ~~

Sorry I was too busy to edit, but at least my message got across. --hydrox (talk) 22:51, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Request

Hello! Could you write an article about my city - ~Żagań on Finnish Wikipedia? Only 2-4 sentences enough. I would be thankful. Saganum (talk) 10:04, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Norway bomb

• Dagbladet is a reputable source so you shd not have deleted my reference to the man's ideological hang-ups (anti-Muslim, pro-Israel - that's what they said!)

86.24.102.36 (talk) 14:27, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

• • Let's wait until we have some 2nd party news source(s) publishing their synthesis on these alleged texts. Currently the way this was introduced to the article smells strongly of WP:OR --hydrox (talk) 14:32, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

clearest case yet of WP:IDONTLIKEIT that specifically against this consensus while claiming consensus is not needed.[15]. and then he retaliates that theres OR for sourced infoLihaas (talk) 22:28, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Have to say I kind of agree with him. My understanding currently is that this is domestic terrorism. --hydrox (talk) 22:56, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, and the guy needs to know WP:IDONTLIKEIT is for deleting articles, not content... anyways I droped by for another matter, but saw this so had to comment. Thanks for being a correct wikipedian even when we disagree. :)--Cerejota (talk) 04:47, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

U can has cheezburger!

For being a cool cat, and doing the stuff correct. Cerejota (talk) 04:49, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

*om om om* Thanks! Little cheezeburger is never bad, especially when you've been up all night wiki-editing :). --hydrox (talk) 05:22, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

BLP1E dramas

So dude, here is the thing. There will always be a tension between what admins, who generally due all the dirty work like fix double redirects, deal with vandals, etc, and editors, who do all the dirty work of gathering sources, structuring content etc do. BLP is not above this tension, and I understand that. But part of why consensus can change and why we need to see each case on a one on one basis is because no amount of policy can fight content. I am not sure, and neither are you, about the intent of BLP1E being what you say, or what the other dude said. And this is because, since it was a consensus collaboration, it is probably both that are correct! One editor wanted one thing, the other wanted another thing, and they found something that made them both happy. So, jokes aside, I think that in general one should try not to fork BLP1Es, but in some cases it is worth the aggravation to admins and to the wikimedia office. Never forget, ever, we are here to edit content, not obey or impose rules... :) --Cerejota (talk) 05:07, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Hey. I was a bit surprised that there was even any opposition to this, I thought my WP:BOLD action to just merge the articles would have worked (it once worked very well in case of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant <-> Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster, but back then I was against the merge :). Anyway, now that I know there is a rather strong consensus against the merge, I thought I might just as well contribute to both articles. I am all for closing the debate for now at least, though the merge discussion still might resurface later. But for now, I am happy with the status quo. --hydrox (talk) 05:22, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Hahaha, same thing happened to me with Death of Osama bin Laden, which I wanted deleted as "too early" (this was like minutes after announced) and the text go into Osama bin Laden's "Death" section. That's why I knew where consensus was now ;).--Cerejota (talk) 05:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

breivik

please note that user scottperry has re-inserted the claim that breivik admired osama bin laden again [16]. i think this is his 5. or. 6. revert less than 24 hours. he tried to muster support [17] but still doesn't have any consensus at all. he is not even discussing any more. i suggest to remove the unreliable material he has yet again included, and a proper administrative response to his breaking of the three-revert rule.-- mustihussain (talk) 09:55, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

The obstinacy of this user is just bewildering. He posts essay-like talk page comments and seems to ignore everyone else. --hydrox (talk) 10:12, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

yes, i now see that he has started another thread ("this is censorship"). that's quite disingenuous as there is a thread already discussing this issue. There is a massive vote against him. -- mustihussain (talk) 10:20, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

unbelievable, he just reverted again [18]!-- mustihussain (talk) 10:44, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

sigh, the third thread on this issue started by scottperry [19]-- mustihussain (talk) 11:28, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Hydrox. You have new messages at Talk:Anders_Behring_Breivik.
Message added 10:23, 25 July 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

what ya think? Cerejota (talk) 10:23, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

RE: ITN admin request

Ack, sorry, I saw this about two minutes after you removed it. Pretty engrossed in this editing! Glad it's sorted. — Joseph Fox 14:51, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

J-P E. Mattila

Thank you for your informed comments, much appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 17:55, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I think this person is notable all right. He was one of the leading private entrepreneurs in his country in the 80s and after the crash in 1991, managed to create one of the leading production automation companies in the world. Robotic Technology Systems PLC (RTS) was not an investment company. It possessed cutting edge machine vision technology providing various industries with the ability to see and react to changing circumstances. RTS's market cap was over 1 billion USD in 2000 and it employed over 1800 professional staff. However, since Mr. Mattila has been under politically motivated attacks by his government for almost two decades, it seems that they have decided to start feeding libelous information about him via Wikipedia. I know this case thoroughly, since I was working in a law firm in 90s doing a legal due diligence about him to the London regulators. This case has drawn my interest ever since, because it has been so illogical and bizarre. I hope the page will remain, but under some level of protection.Barrister568 (talk) 20:17, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I have replied on your talk page. --hydrox (talk) 10:03, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

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Foreign languages assistance

Hi! I noticed you are listed at Wikipedia:Translators available. Could you please take a look at a post at Talk:Battle of Vukovar#Next steps: a call for assistance and advise whether you might be able to help in terms of a Finninsh translation of summary of the article lead? Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:41, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello. There is already a rather extensive article in Finnish (suomi). --hydrox (talk) 05:43, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Oops, sorry about that. Thanks for pointing that out! Cheers--Tomobe03 (talk) 09:39, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Federal enclaves

Dear Hydrox,

I am responding to your decision to eliminate my extensive revision of the entry for Federal Enclaves. Your comment was that it did not conform to the Wikipedia heading style and was therefore difficult to read. I would be happy to add headings and improve the style, and submit it to you before posting it, if you have time to look at it. I am new to this, but I think my contribution was very balanced and useful.

Thank you for helping improve the entry.

Roger W. Haines, Jr. Del Mar, CA (858) 350-5177 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roger W. Haines, Jr. (talk • contribs) 18:27, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Dear Hydrox,

In the interest of time, I added headings to the entry for Federal Enclaves, and, as amended, restored the entry that you had deleted. Please let me know if you still have a problem with the entry. I am quite new to this.

--Roger Haines (858) 350-5177 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roger W. Haines, Jr. (talk • contribs) 23:26, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I have replied to your talk page. --hydrox (talk) 03:14, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Hydrox,

 I liked your edits, but changed the first couple of paragraphs to:

1. incorporate the reference tot he "Special Maritime and Territorial Jurisdiction of the United States" that was in the final "other complications" paragraph. It belongs at the beginning. The phrase is a term of art which you may want to convert to a hyperlink (I don't know how). 2. I also changed your statement that the District of Columbia is a federal enclave. Technically it is not, because it is not within a State, and the rules governing enclaves do not govern the District of Columbia and vice-versa.

 Please drop me a note if you make any other changes.  I will be away from my e-mail from Nov. 5-13.

--Roger — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roger W. Haines, Jr. (talk • contribs) 04:36, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Hydrox. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/Advanced High Performance Reconnaissance Light Aircraft.
Message added 04:45, 3 November 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:45, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Hydrox. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/Advanced High Performance Reconnaissance Light Aircraft.
Message added 05:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Uintascorpio

I have responded to your review at DYK. --Kevmin § 20:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Bugaboos review

Do you mind finishing it? Template:Did you know nominations/The Bugaboos Thanks, The Interior (Talk) 02:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

 Done Ehm, sorry for the delay. Somehow missed your reply :/ --hydrox (talk) 06:16, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

No worries. It was a lot worse before they started using the subpages. It would take about fifteen minutes to go through the template page history to figure out who had said what where. Have a good one, The Interior (Talk) 20:29, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Redundant information

Hydrox, The information "92% of the inhabitants speak the Finnish language" is redundant. It is stated below Languages (where it should be) "The native language of 92 % of the population is Finnish". It is not good Wikipedia practice to have duplicate information in the same article. Your undo/comment makes no sense to me. (Filadifei 20:15, 16 November 2011 (UTC))

Feel free to revert if you disagree. I thought you meant that it was redundant because Finnish people by definition speak Finnish. But if you removed it for some other reason maybe it is then redundant. --hydrox (talk) 20:22, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Unreferenced text

Please read wp:CHALLENGED and wp:BURDEN.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:45, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Please don't ...

... repost posts to a user's page, once the user has deleted them. That's not appropriate. As to the article, I'll try to get to look at the refs tonight, and if appropriate I will withdraw.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:07, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I would recommend that you accept it if an editor wishes to delete your posts. That's clearly their right. Deletions reflect that they have read them. If they don't wish to enshrine them, that is their right as well -- they are not required to enshrine them, even if you would prefer that they do so.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:21, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed you edit warring on Epeefleche's talk page, and went to see what the hubbub was about. Thus:

• Please review WP:3RR and WP:TALK. Your edit warring to include material on Epeefleche's talk page was inappropriate.
• The "blanking during AfD" guidelines apply to the entire article, not to uncited material challenged by another editor. Epeefleche was entirely within his rights to remove what he did, since it was unsourced.
• Furthermore any material which could reasonably be construed to be harmful to a living person must be appropriately cited. Allegations of BDSM conduct would not bother many people, but they would cause real harm to some persons, even if clearly untrue. As such, you were entirely off base to suggest they be retained in the article. Please review our biographies of living persons policy in its entirety.

I hope these points are instructive. Wikipedia policies can be a bit daunting, but the last one is clearly the most important--we don't host potentially defamatory material about real people unless we have a very good source about it. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 18:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

It's funny how I seem to be regarded as some kind of an idiot since I archived my talk page history, and people drop by and see my talk page almost empty and drop all sorts of self-evident comments here.

• I am aware of the policy of users "owning" their talk page. I personally rarely revert comments to my or other people's talk page. I am all fine with Epeefleche owning their talk page, I only reverted the comments so that other users could follow the thread. Please notice that Epeefleche also chose to ignore the disclaimer on MY talk page asking him to reply to my comments on his own talk page rather than here. So how is it that Epeefleche seems to have greater ownership to his talk page than I have to mine?
• Blanking is not appropriate when the {{fact}} tags were only posted five days earlier, even less so when it's the same user posting those tags and redacting the content. And even less so when it's the same user who's at the very moment driving and AfD to delete the article altogether! How could editors possibly have time to fill in citations in such time if they have day jobs? Normal grace period is much longer. Also, the blanking was done only after I replied to his comment on the AfD, which is a strong suggestion that Epeefleche only wants to influence the AfD's course with their deletions – the same material has been in the article for years anyway totally uncited (but its now cited though).
• O really? For anyone who would have bothered to study the article it's apparent that there was never any question of her BDSM history; instead that's the very subject that she writes about, her only valid claim to fame.

--hydrox (talk) 18:46, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

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Wifione ^Message 16:46, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Karachi logo.svg

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Thanks for uploading File:Karachi logo.svg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 05:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Seal/Logo of Karachi

Sir, as you can see from this Official website of Karachi Government that the former administrative setup of the City District Government of Karachi has now been replaced by Karachi Metropolitan Corporation and so is the seal/logo. This is the reason why i've replaced this logo. Can any one upload the .svg version of this file?? nomi887 (talk) 09:24, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

It is requested that kindly make SVG version of the new seal & thanks for the quick response. nomi887 (talk) 08:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Helsinki

[20] Vandalism? really, seriously? Check the block log and the user page please. -- DQ (ʞlɐʇ) 16:24, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Replied to your talk page. Let's keep the discussion there, hydrox (talk) 16:29, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Translation assistance request

Hi! Would you mind reading a talk discussion over at http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:Victoria_Silvstedt#Victoria_does_not_earn_millions_a_year... We have need of someone who can translate an article from a Finnish newspaper. Thanks! Fasttimes68 (talk) 00:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done Replied. --hydrox (talk) 01:03, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!Fasttimes68 (talk) 02:33, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

In The News/Recurring Items

I am posting here to ask for editors to look at Wikipedia:In_the_news/Recurring_items and to comment at the talk page to discuss/vote on an amendment to the ITN/R list. I am posting this message on a number of editor's talk pages to encourage debate.

In connection to an ongoing debate on which items can appear on the front page under "In The News", "Recurring Items" are nominated events which require very little debate in the nomination process.

I propose the following amendment to the current ITN/R list. In addition I will put this on the talk page of as many editors as I can find who are contributors to ITN/C

At Wikipedia:In_the_news/Recurring_items, I propose the following amendment to section 3:

• At line 5, delete "and", and add after "territories" the words "and the world's twenty smallest nations".

Section 3, Line 5 would then read:

• Disputed states, dependent territories and the world's twenty smallest nations should be discussed at WP:ITN/C and judged on their own merits.

I look forward to the debate doktorb _words^deeds 07:28, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

ITNR for elections

As someone who regularly contributes to election articles: Due to recurrent discussions that lead nowhere, an open-ended discussion and proposals are invited Wikipedia talk:In the news/Recurring items/Elections for ITN on the main page as to what should be recurrent without ITNC discussionsLihaas (talk) 07:24, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

French election # ITN

Just out of curiosity (to get a better understanding on future requirement), where was the update you saw for the french election that was posted? Just because its large doesnt mean its updated ;)Lihaas (talk) 08:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Not sure if my judgement on the quality of the update in this case was especially impartial. I believe at the time I supported its posting the article was shwoing the preliminary results. But more importantly for me, several major news sources and agencies had already had articles on their fronts pages declaring monsieur Hollande's victory for up to an hour. Because there was anyway Snowball's chance in hell the French presidential election article was not going to be posted eventually, I saw no reason to delay it either. Once in a while, it's nice to see ITN being actually up-to-date, for what it's worth. I am not saying your cricitism on the substantiality of the update wasn't founded. One can look at it either way. --hydrox (talk) 21:58, 7 May 2012 (UTC)