User talk:पाटलिपुत्र

पाटलिपुत्र is away on vacation and may not respond swiftly to queries.

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How about installing auto-archive, to shorten your talkpage? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:17, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Joshua Jonathan: Thanks! I moved the content manually. Best! पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 10:21, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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File:Map of the Sakas.png

The range on File:Map of the Sakas.png needs to be extended further west because the territory of the Massagetae reached the eastern and northern shores of the Caspian Sea until the Volga as well as the Kyzylkum and Karakum deserts and the Ustyurt plateau (see the "Location" section of Massagetae with the sources, and 519 BC: Persians Occupy the North Pontic Coast by Alexandru Avram in Connecting the Ancient West and East: Studies Presented to Prof. Gocha Tsetskhladze (2022)). Antiquistik (talk) 17:25, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Antiquistik:Thanks! I had this lingering doubt too. Tell me what you think of the new map (you might have to refresh your browser). Best पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 17:33, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's good, but:

the range needs to include the Kyzylkum and Karakum deserts and the Ustyurt plateau
the range on the north shore of the Caspian Sea should be thinner and not reach more northwards than the latitude of present-day Makat in Kazakhstan since the territories further north were inhabited by the non-Saka Sauromatae. Antiquistik (talk) 17:53, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Antiquistik: I tweaked further. Tell me what you think. पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 18:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's better, but the range still needs to reach till the Volga delta in the north while not extending more northwards than the latitude of present-day Makat in Kazakhstan. Antiquistik (talk) 03:53, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Antiquistik: Like this? पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 04:59, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's it. It's perfect! Antiquistik (talk) 06:55, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Antiquistik: What is your perspective on adding the Ordos culture to the Saka realm? पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 07:26, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am presently not too familiar with the Ordos culture, but from what I understand, their identity is not certain. So it might be prudent to not include them into the Saka realm for now.

However, I will let you know if I find any further information on the issue. Antiquistik (talk) 07:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Antiquistik: Thanks! पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 08:11, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is Map of the Saka and Scythian realms.png meant to represent all Scytho-Siberian cultures or only the Scythians and Saka?

If its meant to represent only the Scythian and Saka cultures, then it should include the Yuezhi, who were a Saka tribe (see Asii on Encyclopædia Iranica).

If it's meant to represent all Scytho-Siberian cultures, it should include the Sauromatians as well. Antiquistik (talk) 13:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Antiquistik:. Thanks for the comments. The Yuezhi are not considered as Saka, AFAIK. I tried to add the area of the Sauromatians. Tell me what you think. पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 14:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From what I understand, the Asioi, Pasianoi, Tocharoi, and Sakarauloi are collectively identified with the Yuezhi.

And at least the Sakaraukoi are considered Sakas. But since they were one of the tribes of the Yuezhi, this might imply that the Yuezhi themselves were part of the Saka according to the broader definition of the term. Antiquistik (talk) 15:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I think I have never seen an identification of the Yuezhis with the Sakas. Probably better to leave this aside..... But it seems the Wusun may have been... पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 15:53, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Although everything known about the Yuezhi suggests they were Eastern Iranic nomads who were, at the very least, related to the Saka groups like the Massagetae (see the section on the Alans in Notes on the presence of Iranian peoples in Europe and their Asiatic relations by Marek Olbrycht.

So maybe it's worth including them on the map with their territory marked with another shade/another colour. Antiquistik (talk) 17:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yuezhi prince from Khalchayan

Saka warrior from Khalchayan

Hi @Antiquistik:. Nice read, but I don't see any mention of the Yuezhis, nor a suggestion that the Yuezhis were Scythians or Iranians (maybe I missed something?). If I remember well, the Greco-Bactrians were first overrun by Scythians indeed, but the Yuezhi soon followed "in pursuit", ultimately even displacing the (Indo-)Scythians in India with the establishment of the Kushan Empire. I think nothing is known for certain about the ethnicity of the Yuezhi, but they certainly do not look very much like Scythians, and were even their enemies (see Khalchayan). They adopted the Iranian Bactrian language for their inscriptions (and the Greek script) while settling in Bactria, but that in itself does not make them Iranians (nor Greeks for that matter...). I'm afraid we would need some strong secondary sources about the Yuezhis being Scythians, if they were to be included in a map... पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 20:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The line This statement vindicates the view that the Asioi, a powerful tribe which took part in the nomadic invasions o f Bactria in the 2nd century B.C., are to be identified as a people closely affiliated to the Alans on page 126 of the Olbrycht text is what I am referring to.

The Olbrycht article continues, "The location of the Alan homeland in Central Asia can be detected from information given by some classical writers (Jos. Bell.Jud. 7.244; Ptol. Geogr. 6.14.9. On this issue see Olbrycht 1998, 190ff.). Moreover, the Alans’ ancestors originated in the Transcaspian areas according to some writers of the Islamic period whose sources are obviously much earlier"

And then "The Classical writers Cassius Dio (69.15.1) and Ammianus Marcellinus (31.2.12; cf. 23.5.16) identify the Alans with the powerful people of the Massagetae, known in the Transcaspian steppes in the Achaemenid and Hellenistic periods. Based upon those statements and the tradition which connects the Alans with Central Asia, one can assume that the Alans were formed when some older tribal groupings embraced the Massagetae."

The Asioi are also the same as the Asii/Asiani that the Iranica article I linked to covers and which it identifies with the Yuezhi. And the Iranica article seems to identify the Asioi as being at least Iranic, and possibly even as a Saka (in the broader sense of the term) group.

The political differences do not necessarily mean that the Yuezhi could not have been related to the Sakas. Ethnicity does not necessarily correlated with positive political relations. For example, the Pontic Scythians had hostile relations with the Agathyrsi and the Cimmerians despite most Scythologists being of the opinion that these groups were very closely related and possibly even spoke the same dialect.

Likewise, the cultural differences are not necessarily an indicator of a lack of relation, given that, for example, only some tribes of the Sarmatians practised cranial deformation while the other Sarmatian tribes did not. Antiquistik (talk) 05:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Antiquistik:. All of this is OK, but it all seems rather tentative and indirect, and based on uncertain interpretations of ancient sources. Even the Encyclopedia Iranica, although equating the Asii with the Yuezhi, does not affirm the Asii as Iranic (only their name as reported by ancient Western sources seems to have an Iranic root). Olbrycht only states that the Asioi associated with the Alans. To go back to our original matter, I'm afraid that as long as mainstream secondary sources do not affirm that "the Yuezhi were probably Scythians", we won't have a good reason to put the Yuezhis into a map of the Scythians (and personally I have never seen such sources). You don't have to convince me, it just has to be stated clearly by mainstream secondary sources. Thanks for the discussion! Best पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 06:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. This is quite reasonable. Antiquistik (talk) 06:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Manichaeism draft

I noticed you edited a lot of Manichaeism related articles and I am wondering whether you would be up for helping with this Manichaeism related draft Draft:Huastvanift Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 09:03, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you @Immanuelle: for the invite, but this is really beyond my area of expertise. I only edit sporadically in that erea... Best! पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 09:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

File:Princess Li Jingxun (died 608 CE) reenactment on Chinese television.jpg listed for discussion

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Xiongnu

About this edite done by Giresunlu1993 in 10:37, 13 October 2023 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1179928290

First; without source

Second: language of Xiongnu is unknown. An analysis by Savalyev and Jeong has cast doubt on the Yeniseian theory. If assuming that the ancient Yeniseians were represented by modern Ket people, who are more genetically similar to Samoyedic speakers, the Xiongnu do not display a genetic affinity for Yeniseian peoples 7712Touch74396 (talk) 23:50, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Why are you deleting my edit

Why are you deleting my edit????? Oilcocaine (talk) 20:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Oilcocaine: I am deleting those of your edits that do not make sense. पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 20:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
please discuss before deleting my edit Oilcocaine (talk) 20:58, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pataliputra Lyuli are originated from India. Please check the "lyuli" article before deleting my edit Oilcocaine (talk) 21:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
deleting Romani people in Central Asia in also see!!!

How it can be irrelevant???

Please discuss ??

How someone's relevant is someone's irrelevant Oilcocaine (talk) 21:08, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not start edit war please!!!!!! Oilcocaine (talk) 21:11, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Oilcocaine: You have to obtain consensus on the Talk Pages of these articles.

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Continental Asia in 20000 BP

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Season's Greetings

		Season's Greetings
		Wishing everybody a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! The Nativity scene on the Pulpit in the Pisa Baptistery by Nicola Pisano is my Wiki-Christmas card to all for this year. Johnbod (talk) 02:59, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you @Johnbod:. Merry Christmas to you to! पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 08:43, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt–Mesopotamia relations

Hi पाटलिपुत्र! A courtesy notification, since the nominator did not: Egypt–Mesopotamia relations is at AfD. Jfire (talk) 18:19, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Steppe admixture analysis

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Avoiding links to disambiguation pages

Although you've fixed the link from Kitâb al-Diryâq to the Theriaca disambiguation page, it still links to a dab page at Northern Iraq: I haven't fixed it because I don't know which meaning is best.

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Genetic admixture of modern Turkic-speaking populations map

Hello, I see you created this image: [1]. Thanks for the work! Would you mind correcting the captions per source?

“

D, Ancestral composition of post‐Iron Age Eastern/Central Steppe pastoralists and modern Altaic‐speaking populations based on supervised ADMIXTURE. Mongolia_N_North (labeled as ANA in figure) and Ashina were chosen as ANA ancestry, Russia_Sintashta_MLBA was used as West Eurasian‐related ancestry, YR_LN was regarded as the additional millet farmers of Central Plain of China. The diverse ancestral compositions of post‐Iron Age Eastern/Central Steppe pastoralists showed a high proportion of East Eurasian ancestry in Eastern Steppe nomadic populations with the exception of early Xiongnu_west and late Xiongnu_Sarmatian, and West Eurasian ancestry dominant in Central Steppe nomadic populations. Present‐day Turkic populations exhibited high genetic heterogeneity with diverse proportions of ANA, and the ANA ancestry decreased almost longitudinally.

”

Also would you mind adding the population names like in the journal article? For example, Nog_S look like it's actually Turkey, whereas Trk (Turkey) looks like Cyprus). Thanks! Bogazicili (talk) 09:44, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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deleted

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Battle of Waliyan moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Battle of Waliyan. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it needs more sources to establish notability. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

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Empress Ashina

Aysugulgun said that Empress Ashina's name is Asena; he also claimed that he founded in Old Turkish Sources, but I Don't speak Turkish, nor I can find it,can you go back to my edit? Historydiver (talk) 03:51, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Sampul Tapestry origin discussion

I accept better judgement, but just for discussion, wouldn't you say that the fact that the tapestry seems to be Greek/Hellenistic (centaur with Herculean cape) and that the man in the image has a headband like many Greco-Bactrians and Greek rulers, plus the spear and likeness to images of Alexander the Great like those from Roman Egypt, could more likely be interpreted as a Greek rather than a Yuezhi? Why would he be a Yuezhi?

If you think it's a Yuezhi, we'll leave the wikipedia edit at that, but it's a possibility it could be Greek or at least Greco-Bactrian.

Cheers,

Helios Heliosfallen (talk) 12:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Heliosfallen: The style is Greco-Bactrian, but the individual is wearing Yuezhi clothes, not Greek ones (see the long tunique and red trousers). Most sources now consider the figure as Yuezhi, although there were indeed suggestions for Greek in older sources. Best. पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 14:11, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Battle of Waliyan for deletion

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Images

Please be more thorough in terms of image adding... HistoryofIran (talk) 23:37, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Map of Karnata dynasty

Hi, page 32 of the Schwartzberg Atlas has a location given for the Karnata dynasty. Given your experience with creating maps, would you be able to make one for the Karnat dynasty as well please?

Source: https://dsal.uchicago.edu/reference/schwartzberg/pager.html?object=069

Thank you Ixudi (talk) 17:51, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ixudi: I added a location map. Best पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 06:07, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Very much appreciated. Ixudi (talk) 11:01, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Siege of Baghdad

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Why did you remove my sourced material

Give me one good reason why you removed my sourced statements from the pages Mihir Bhoja and Paramara dynasty and I feel you are being biased here Harshitbhati2006jik (talk) 11:26, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting from a blog and removing properly referenced material. पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 11:55, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vacations!

पाटलिपुत्र is away on vacation and may not respond swiftly to queries.

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Question

Hey, I see your work and I'm very amazed by it. Now I wanted to ask whether it is in your area of interest to expand Kurdish entities of history articles? many of them are very thin filled. Thanks. Fuad Dijvan (talk) 14:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fuad Dijvan: Thanks! No not really, my centers of interests are pretty serendipitous. पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 15:44, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Sogdian metalworking has been nominated for splitting

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Kara-Khanid map

Hello there,I’ve noticed that my edit was reverted (I changed the map which I took from https://www.thoughtco.com/turkey-facts-and-history-195767 as if you’re biased and a pan-turanist or something. What was the problem? What is your source? Can we come to an agreement? My map at least has a source, I don’t think the map is too different,I can’t see sources where Kara-khanids extended that north or east. I know about Suyab, of course it’s included in the map I put up. Cheers. Vofa (talk) 12:54, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Help

Hello, I appreciate your templates you started with South Asia in 1500 CE, etc. I have tried to create a template Template:Map of Himachal Pradesh kingdoms, unfortunately I am not able to get started on it because of multiple errors. I would really appreciate your help.

Thanks, GujaratiHistoryinDNA (talk) 21:32, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pleass help

Look at this users Fact Check Mongol Eena2u Dorjzav

And edits they make https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1218870559&oldid=1218870503&title=Slab-grave_culture&diffonly=1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1207107068&oldid=1207024679&title=Slab-grave_culture&diffonly=1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1219495811&oldid=1218930204&title=Slab-grave_culture&diffonly=1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1219706509&oldid=1219528671&title=Slab-grave_culture&diffonly=1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ordos_culture&oldid=1219882144 Most likely they are the same person 7712Touch74396 (talk) 17:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you

	The Original Barnstar
	Thank you for adding this intriguing little gem here. Uriel1022 (talk) 20:38, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 14:44, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abhira-Kalachuri-Chedi era

hello, @पाटलिपुत्र. Can you make Abhira era map? https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Abhira_era_%28Kalachuri-Chedi_era%29.jpg 2409:4085:8E92:49A0:0:0:88C9:5D0F (talk) 07:45, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aramaic inscription of Laghman

This is a bizarre non-NPOV article. As Falk (2006) notes, there is no accepted reading of the inscription; in contrast, you have reproduced Dupont-Sommer's reading of the inscription and translation. Hell, there is considerable doubt on whether it is an Asokan edict at the first place! TrangaBellam (talk) 14:56, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Falk (2009; p. 5-6):

There are some texts called 'Aśokan' which do not deserve this label. Cunningham in his first edition of the Aśokan texts included a stone inscription from Deotek, which no one today would link with Aśoka. An inscribed doorframe found at Amarāvatī is often referred to as Aśokan, but there is no proof that it really is. Much clearer are the two inscriptions from the Laghman valley in eastern Afghanistan. They are written in Aramaic script and language and contain a reference to Aśoka, but only as a means of dating them to his regnal years 10 and 16. Because of his name and because of the difficulties of this script, scholars were tempted to find references to Aśokan ideas in them. On the other side, we have some studies on these texts from specialists in Aramaic who show that they are the results of law cases, the verdicts of which the winners have put in stone to demonstrate their claims in public.

TrangaBellam (talk) 15:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maps

sir TrangaBellam IDK where to contact पाटलिपुत्र so I am replying you on a recent talk, I have a request for you. DEMIS mapserver isnt working I guess. But I need a political map of south asia which overlaps correctly with that of the topographic map of south Asia. This is an anonymous comment, so kindly give me the image here. Thank you. I really need it Da.Pandit (talk) 08:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Continental Asia in 200 CE

Template:Continental Asia in 200 CE has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:24, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

help

hi i was wondering if you could improve the cossacks page when you have time, I have seen that you have good contributed on other pages Turkiishh (talk) 00:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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