Template talk:Assassination attempts on presidents of the United States

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2016 Donald Trump Las Vegas rally incident

Fellow editors, There's been a few additions & reversions of 2016 Donald Trump Las Vegas rally incident over the past few months. I've removed it myself a few times, on the basis that Trump was not President at the time of the incident. Given that it's been regularly re-added, it's time to discuss. Thoughts? - Ryk72 ^talk 03:34, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We actually don't have any editorial say in this -- WP:BLP forbids us from claiming that an intellectually-disabled man attempted to assassinate someone when a court found otherwise. Remove it on sight, no matter how often it is added. If anyone editwars over it, immediately contact the admins at WP:ANI for assistance. In the unlikely event that didn't solve it immediately, we'd proceed to WP:OFFICE. Wikipedia cannot be libelous. Feoffer (talk) 03:45, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This approach is not applied consistently. For example, the Barack Obama assassination plot in Denver article is about "three men who were charged with drug and weapons charges, but did not face federal charges of threatening a presidential candidate." The Assassination attempts against George W. Bush article includes the case of Robert Pickett, who was only convicted of "a local firearms violation and an "Alford plea" (acknowledging there was enough evidence to convict him but not admitting he was entirely guilty) to assaulting a federal officer". If this is the policy, we should remove all articles where the person in question was not convicted of the specific crime of (attempted) assassination (or at least attempted murder), or rename the template. McPhail (talk) 08:15, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. The 2001 shooting was indeed a BLPvio when included in an an article about presidential assassination attempts. I've removed it. Feoffer (talk) 22:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Trump was not president, and it remains uncertain how serious of the threat this actually was. This incident shouldn't be listed among US Presidential Assassination Attempts. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 14:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a strong view on whether the Trump article is included or not. My point is that if an article is not being included in the "US Presidential Assassination Attempts" template given WP:BLP because there is no court conviction of an assassination, several of the articles already included should be removed on the same basis. McPhail (talk) 15:08, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First, why would there need to be a conviction for assassination to be included in a list of attempted assassinations? Second, BLP is being misrepresented. If you were charged with attempted murder, but convicted of aggravated battery, that doesn't mean there was not a murder attempt. It means that either some elements weren't provable or that there was a plea to a lesser charge. It's not a BLP issue to say you'd been charged with attempted murder. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:11, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're misunderstanding me. We have an article titled Assassination attempts against George W. Bush which includes a man who was convicted of a firearms violation and assaulting a police officer. He was not convicted of attempted assassination. There's a clear BLP issue there. The same is true for multiple other articles. I have flagged this at the BLP discussion page. McPhail (talk) 19:24, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're misunderstanding me. The absence of a conviction for a specific offense doesn't mean there was no attempted assassination. Pleas to lesser offenses happen all the time, but they don't erase the fact that the original crime occured. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:54, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"We have an article titled Assassination attempts against George W. Bush which includes a man who was convicted of a firearms violation and assaulting a police officer." Not anymore. Feoffer (talk) 07:06, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's an excellent start. McPhail (talk) 08:13, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. He wasn't president, thus the incident lacks one very important criteria for inclusion. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:47, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: move the template to Template:Assassination attempts on presidents of the United States, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 16:44, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Template:US Presidential Assassination Attempts → Template:Assassination attempts on the president of the United States – To sync with the the name used on the navbox NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 19:56, 30 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:58, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Aside from my request to revert it back to the current title, I think it's fine the way it is. Maybe it could be called "American Presidential Assassination Attempts" or some other variation. Maybe "Assassination attempts on President's of the United States" is another way to name it. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 21:04, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think the new name is better. But the P in President should be capitalized. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:53, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Changed so that this is a move from Template namespace to Template namespace, not to article space. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 02:15, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Template:POTUS assassination attempts would be shorter -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 11:51, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support with "President" capitalized. The current wording making sound as if it is a list of assassination attempts made by US Presidents. (Plus US doesn't have appropriate initials). --ZimZalaBim ^talk 14:30, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support with "president" in lowercase as proposed. Uppercase would violate MOS:JOBTITLES--Woko Sapien (talk) 15:32, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Present name solves the problem of whether "President of the United States" should or should not be treated as a title and a proper noun phrase. If there must be change, then it should be made plural, as in Template:Assassination attempts on presidents of the United States. Would support that template name change. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 00:23, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd support Template:Assassination attempts on presidents of the United States. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 00:31, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I tried to uppercase "president" with this edit, and it was reverted. So use of the singular "president" is controversial. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 01:49, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.