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'Copyright and Fair Use' section

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Most of this looks like original research to me. It is citing the U.S. Copyright Office, and making assertions about the law in regard to 'poop'. Furthermore, it implies that only U.S. law is applicable - which is questionable when the 'poop' sources and/or compilation isn't U.S. based. I think the section needs to go until it can be sourced to material directly discussing 'poop' and copyright law. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:15, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fine by me - I haven't got past trying to find a good reliable source to replace the knowyourmeme.com one at present. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:18, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the WP:OR, together with other unsourced claims regarding copyright status. I ask that they not be restored before discussion here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:25, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, though I'll ping @Thechemistryguy:, who wrote most of the article, towards this conversation, as they're a new editor, they won't necessarily understand or appreciate all of Wikipedia's policies. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:29, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

YouTube Poop Afc submission/acceptance

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First off, thank you for helping me to get ytp onto wiki. My jaw literally dropped when I saw it up. I was never able to check out the previous attempts, but I imagine they were pretty abysmal.

I have a couple of questions/comments with regards to the changes:

1) The very last line in the Technique section has been added. There is very little use of the older sources such as Super Mario, or cdi cutscenes. These were used greatly back in the first few years of ytp, but are all but abandoned by now. It is a common misconception by outsiders that these are still popular. Everything and anything is used. I, frankly, would like to eliminate any mention of particular sources (they come and go) except with reference to History/Origin. I'd love to move it to Origin, or eliminate it altogether.

2) I figured the reference for the interview given by Mazur [6] was imperfect, but it is the best there is. There is a general consensus in the community on a lot of details, but very few are documented with people's real names. What can I do to strengthen this reference? I'm certain I could get in touch with either Matt Mulligan or Andrew Hartford, and reasonably certain I could reach Mazur.

3) The section on Copyright and Fair Use was completely changed. The petition by the Electronics Frontier Foundation and the subsequent ruling by the Copyright Office were relevant to the rights of non-commercial video makers. Why was all of this removed?

Also:

I held back on some items I hoped to improve on later. With regards to artistic merit, there are several online lectures (YouTube) given by Professor David Bailey that explores ytp and its similarities to postmodernism. Are using YT videos as references generally frowned upon? Once again, I can easily get in contact with him as well.

Thanks!

Also, I noted another error. The person that was attributed to creating youchewpoop was not Tom Johns, but Conrad Slater. Johns started the trailer mash as mentioned in the reference. I don't have a reference for Slater except for copies of interview he gave years ago that are on his blog site. I don't suppose these are usable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thechemistryguy (talkcontribs) 19:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In response to your questions
1) Wikipedia works on Verifiability, not truth. The key reason for citing those book sources was primarily to demonstrate that the topic is notable - if you start removing them, there's the risk someone might nominate the article for deletion (and given that the article has been speedy deleted a fair few times and deleted via a previous AfD, we need all the reliable sources we can muster).
2) I can't find a better source either for this interview. knowyourmeme.com has been criticised as a self published source, though this interview seems to have been written by the editorial staff rather than any random visitor to the site, so it does have slightly more credibly. I'll ping @SexyKick:, who's a bit of a Mario expert, to see if he can comment, as he's probably heard of SuperYoshi's work.
3) The above section started by AndyTheGrump explains why the copyright section was removed - but in summary, the prose and references were talking about copyright infringement and fair use generally, and not in the specific context of YouTube Poop. Therefore, explaining copyright / fair use in this article can be considered original research. The book source here stayed because it specifically linked YouTube Poop to a copyright lawsuit.
Anyway, in summary, well done for getting the article in mainspace - at least the term is considered notable enough to have some presence on Wikipedia. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:41, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
PS: About citing YouTube, I'd say is a bit like working with fireworks or high voltage mains - you can do it if you're careful, but if you're not seriously sure about what you're doing, it's likely to cause trouble. Many YT videos are copyright violations, which are completely unacceptable to use as sources, so you need to make sure you are citing to an official channel. Something where the uploader's name is DavidBaileyOfficial or DavidBaileyScience are good, names like yoshi5154dude are not. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:06, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my, that's a hard question. I've never heard of Super Yoshi, I don't know anything about YTP, and I don't know much about knowyourmeme.com - if that interview is the only place the information you need for the article can be found, then it's the only place it can be found...and definitely the article would need to be by staff for it to have some credibility. I wish I could be more help.--SexyKick 13:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I do thank for all your help in the creation of this article and now I understand the reasoning for removal of the portions related to Copyright/Fair Use.

However, if you check the reference regarding the creation of the youchew website, you'll see that Tom Johns is credited for creating thetrailermash.com. The author's writing seems a bit muddled in this paragraph since she jumps from this website, to mashups in general and over to the youchew website. A casual read will make it sound as though this guy was responsible for both sites...which he is not.

I can also understand the philosophy of verifiability over truth (don't like it, but understand it), but there will be a veritable shitstorm when poopers finally discover this page. I've been keeping it quiet until I think there won't be a bunch of guys coming in and changing things left and right. There are certain "facts" well known in the community and giving credit to someone other than Conrad Slater will raise a lot of hackles. I'd like to prevent that. And if it means simply omitting that line/reference and losing a bit of verifiability, I see this as the safer choice.

The same goes, to a lesser extent, about the preference of sources. Would it be possible to move this line to the Origin section?

Thank you for your time

Thechemistryguy (talk) 13:28, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It really is awkward. I've certainly watched things that might qualify as YouTube Poop (the Beaker singing Ode To Joy video redone at half speed, Cassetteboy vs The Apprentice, wouldn't Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict be an early example?) but I'm no expert. People writing in reliable sources are not necessarily experts either and just summing up trends, while the real experts write on the web in unreliable sources. It means people laugh at Wikipedia and say "look all those lies!" but it also means you get an article that doesn't get slated as "not notable, speedy delete, salt, flush down the toilet" by WP regulars. Not sure what to suggest. But from my point of view, as long as you keep all the sources referenced somewhere in the article, I'm pretty much ambivalent about what text goes where. I don't own the article - I just approved it! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:57, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Once again I thank you for you help. Hopefully the last modification retains enough of a unbiased view to strike a compromise between truth and verification :) Thechemistryguy (talk) 20:09, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't this just an ||animutation|| posted to Youtube? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.164.169 (talk) 05:19, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Page title

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Should the P really be capitalized? YouTube poop is more of a genre, not a title. —Poopal retentive 20:07, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It definitely should be. NesserWiki (talk) 07:26, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I guess. Sometimes it is a title. --KoolKidz112 (talk) 00:47, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The term is almost always used as a title, and no source cited on the article doesn't capitalise the P. Therefore, I agree that it should be capitalised. SleepDeprivedGinger (talk) 09:48, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated removal of material

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This material had been repeatedly removed [1] as being improperly sourced. knowyourmeme.com is not a reliable source (it's user-generated and on Wikipedia's list of websites to avoid) and somebody's YouTube video is no better. I don't know that the material is worth including at all, but it cannot go in with the current sources. Meters (talk) 20:18, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We also don't embed external links. Meters (talk) 20:21, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Meters: If KnowYourMeme.com is not a reliable source, then why is this sentence below about YTP Tennis still in the article? (It also has a KnowYourMeme link as the sole reference.)
Under Techniques:

Alternately, two YouTube Poopers may engage in "YTP tennis" or "YTP soccer", wherein the same video is remixed back and forth.

Sole reference: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ytp-tennis
This said by the same editor who once put the sub-section on YTPMV in the article, which I see was removed because it was “poorly sourced” (because the only sources I could find to support it were from KnowYourMeme and I didn’t want to use anything else either from another wiki or that could be perceived as original research). ‐⁠‑🌀⁠SilSinnAL982100💬 03:10, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have nay particular interest i this article and I don't believe I have touched it since I made that deletion in 2017. Now that you've drawn my attention to that bit I'll remove it. We have a reliable source for the "remix", and we don't need someone's personal definition of repeated remixing as tennis. Meters (talk) 03:23, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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"Turn this feature off to help keep your kids safe on YouTube" by Rich DeMuro wants readers to turn off autoplay to keep kids safe from YTP. How can this be worked in? --Damian Yerrick (talk) 23:09, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Spingebill" listed at Redirects for discussion

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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Spingebill. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 21:10, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

YouTube Poop music videos

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Should YTPMV's be mentioned here or are they not notable enough? St. Jimmy (talk) 20:36, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@St. Jimmy Jammy: There was once a section on YTPMVs, but it was deleted because the only sources that supported it were on a website that is on Wikipedia’s source blacklist: KnowYourMeme.com. I know that because I was the author of that section and I myself witnessed its deletion on grounds of lack of acceptable sourcing. ‐⁠‑🌀⁠SilSinnAL982100💬 02:51, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Makes sense, KnowYourMeme.com isn't reliable for sourcing. St. Jimmy (talk) 02:55, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would say they're different enough from YTPs and big enough as a form of media to have their own article, but I see almost no talk about them outside of small circles, YouTube comments, and out-of-context clips on the bird app.
A lot of things on the Internet tend to have this curse. You're either neck-deep in the rabbit hole, or you have no idea what it is or why this Touhou video suddenly has shirtless men screaming at each other.
Still, if it weren't for their relative lack of news coverage (besides the MrBeast edits, which I saw at least 5 low quality articles about) and studies, I think they'd really need an article of their own. cogsan (talk) 16:25, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
and then people started adding info about them, which would be nice
but they were about as sourced as my dentally challenged british friend is chilean, and the events were unimportant at best, so they had to go
it's only a shame that there aren't that many sources on the more meaningful ones, like the old spice, jack black and apparently still ongoing ronald mcdonald collabs, or even gachimuchi
when (and if) i manage to get my home pc running, i'm digging as deep as i can for some of that good, reliable sauce, and leaving my findings here
and shame on my old self for using the scourge of the earth known as capital letters cogsan (talk) 12:42, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 July 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Opponents have effectively argued that it is not a proper noun but a genre. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:26, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]


YouTube poopYouTube Poop – If I counted them all correctly, literally all of the sources in the article itself consistently refer to the subject with the 'p' capitalized. See: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8]. Per MOS:CAPS, Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia. That condition is clearly met here. HappyWith (talk) 18:19, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Screenshot-media article

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Just wanna note this here for future editors, since I almost fell for this myself: I am 90% sure that this article by Screenshot-Media is cribbing from this very Wikipedia article, making it essentially unusable as a source. It flat-out name-checks this article at least once, and also goes through extremely similar progressions to older versions of this article (the exact same ordering of common sources in the "Throughout the 2000s" paragraph, citing the same Cvetkovski source with the exact same quotes featured, etc). HappyWith (talk) 21:14, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced stuff

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@BeatBro Please stop edit warring and adding badly sourced details. We need good sources to cover those things to include them. HappyWith (talk) 19:42, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]