Talk:Bridges and tunnels across the Yangtze River

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On 9 August 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to List of bridges and tunnels across the Yangtze River. The result of the discussion was Procedural close.

Formatting

Whoever created this article - by copying-and-pasting a fragment from Yangtze River - lost all the wiki formatting that was there. Care to fix? -- Vmenkov (talk) 04:21, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally, it probably would make more sense to arrange bridges in the upstream-to-downstream format, and not in the stramge reverse format used now. -- Vmenkov (talk) 04:21, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Table Layout

I would like to point that in the creation of separate tables for the Chongqing and Hubei sections of the river, what was once a single-sortable table is now non-sortable. This change may have been inadvertent but is significant to the article. A sortable table allows readers not only to see all of the information listed but to manipulate the information for different purposes. For example, the sortable table allows bridges to be ranked by when they were built, their length and type. With separate tables, the ability to gain new insights from the same data is lost. I do not think it would be difficult to recombine the tables into one main sortable table. All it takes is to re-insert of one narrow column for order and another for province. The location and carries column could be made narrower to create the space. Thank you for your attention. ContinentalAve (talk) 04:22, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give some background as I changed it over. I am working through the List of bridges in China creating articles, adding info and generally tidying up where I can. I came across this page, added to it and have added multiple related articles. Personally I didn't think it needed the storability function but I must admit I didn't do a lot of planning on the new structure. I added photos and coordinates, removed the Chinese as per WP:Manual of Style (use of Chinese language), which states "if a term is Wikified and has an article, do not provide (Chinese) characters or romanization again", and one length column (bridge length is always a little ambiguous). I'm obviously still working on it and adding further articles. Before I changed it I looked at a few similar articles which are well developed. The majority of which are in the USA an UK. See a selection below.

I can’t seem to find any guidance on Wikipedia:BRIDGES or anywhere else I could think of on the preferred structure. I guess the question becomes How useful is the storability and what value does it add to the article. Other things to note are how sortable it becomes with tunnels etc. anyway. Also other columns such as location and use would need to be further standardised.

Also worth thinking about is the multiple dams especially in the upper stretches (see Category:Jinsha River), multiple ferry crossings and some notable electrical pylon spans. Should these we added? If so in the main table or separately? Also as was previously asked should it be upstream-to-downstream format? Finally the last question I have regarding this list is should the upper stretches of the river pass Yibin be included eventually or should there be other pages i.e. List of crossings of the Jinsha River? ShakyIsles (talk) 03:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, ShakyIsles, for starting this discussion. I had included Chinese characters as a column in my table because separate articles did not yet exist for most of the entries. The table was designed as a starting point for authors to create articles for those bridges. I am most pleased to see that many more bridge articles have been created.

The Chongqing Metro now has one line over the river via the Caiyuanba Bridge with more to come.

File:Nanjing Metro Blueprint.jpg

The Nanjing Metro plans to have as many as six metro lines crossing the river.

Sortability by date is especially important to this article. As the text portion of the article indicates, one of the most prominent aspects of the subject matter is how the crossings have been built across the Yangtze. Despite the fact that the Yangtze River is one of the longest in the world, cuts across one of the oldest and largest civilizations, and sustains some of the world’s densest populated areas in its middle and lower reaches, there were no bridges across this river prior to 1957. By 1980, there were only five crossings spread out over 2,884 kilometers (1,792 miles) of the river. In the last 30 years, the number of crossings has grown to about 70 and will continue to grow. Big cities like Nanjing and Wuhan now have over five crossings in their city limits. As more entries are added to the table, only sorting by date will allow readers to see the chronological progression of when and how quickly the bridges and tunnels have been built. If they can sort by the length of the crossing, they will find that many of the longest bridges are, unsurprisingly, concentrated in the lower reaches of the river, which can be as long as 2-3 km wide, but also among the more recently built as technology and capital are now available to build crossings at wider parts of the river. Sorting by type shows that some bridge designs employed in older bridges such as beam have given way to newer designs such as cable-stayed bridges. I do not see how tunnels pose a problem to sortability. If you look the sortable table that I’d created, tunnels are designated as a type of “bridge” and therefore can be grouped together through sorting by type.

It occurs to me that for location, one column may be sufficient, if combined with the inclusion of the order column. Within the location column, we could have both the names of the city and province in which the bridge or tunnel is located. Sorting by location would yield an alphabetical list of cities where crossings exist. Sorting by order will restore the list to order in which the bridges appear going upstream and this order naturally groups the crossings by province.

The lack of guidelines for such lists should allow this article to treat the subject matter in a functional manner. Not all of the lists that you’ve identified have included the dates that each of the crossings were built. Perhaps for those articles, the date is not salient, but not for this one. I think this article has a good chance to become one of the most prominent and interesting list of bridges in Wikipedia. It certainly should be one of the most dynamic as there are new bridges and tunnels being built up and down the Yangtze on a scale and at pace that exist on few other rivers of this size. In fact, one of the challenges for this article is to keep it up-to-date. In the time since I created the original table in the fall of 2010, metro lines have begun to cross the river. I can't think of too many other rivers with multiple cities each having multiple metro lines crossing the river.

Your suggestions for the Jinsha River crossings are all good. The Chinese Wikipedia version of this article already has a nice list of crossings upstream. The river is narrower upstream and those crossings date as far back as 1879. Given the difference between Changjiang and its upstream sections, I think we should have separate tables within the same article. There is already an article for Yangtze River power line crossings. I think upstream dams should go into a separate article unless they also provide a means for traffic to cross the river. I had included the Sanjiang Bridge at Gezhouba because it, along with the dam itself, formed a crossing, but you appear to have removed it from the partial Hubei table in place. Ferry crossings are very numerous both on the Changjiang and the upstream sections. The ferry crossings are also changing as new bridges open, ferries close. I would focus on getting the bridge list done before starting on the ferry crossings. ContinentalAve (talk) 07:45, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have a copy of this article with only one table and new entries : Yangzi bridges

There's a pipeline bridge downstream Yibin Yangtze River Bridge I didn't put in the list and many new really big bridges planned in the Jiangsu and Shanghai part

a general list about chinese bridges with many facts but I had to write it in small, it was unreadable without. Unfortunately, we only can sort by road and not by river. Also you can do multiple sorting, for example, sort by date and after by province or span with province, there are many possibilities. I know that it's really too big but this is the best way to find a particular chinese bridge or to have a good view of all of them.

China bridge list

About this discussion, personaly I think it's a good idea to include tunnels (there're no hundreds of tunnels under yangtze it doesn't make sense to create a separate very small list), but powerlines crossings are very differents than bridges, they only have their own weight while bridges have to support trafic. Also I think that we have to stop at Yibin because Min river has small bridges (compared to Yangzi crossings), and Jinsha river is very less wide, there's no bridges over the Yangzi who cross the total length of the river with one span of 260 meters (the Rongzhou bridge, the first of Jinsha river). There are others tributaries of the Yangzi with bigger spans like Wujiang or Jialing rivers. About dams, I think there's only the 3 gorges dam who crosses the entire Yangtze and there's no road on.--Glabb (talk) 18:12, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'm okay with it however really. One idea could be different ways to show the progression over time either with a gif of a map over time (lots of work involved) or just a simple graph with number vs. year. Regarding the tunnels I think they can stay in. And the pipeline bridge - I guess we need to decide if it is a list of bridges and tunnels (should probably be included) or a list of crossing (don't include but should have ferry crossing eventually). ShakyIsles (talk) 02:39, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

First off, Glabb, I really admire the work you've done uploading pictures of the highest bridges in the world in southwest China. Really amazing work. And wow, based on the number of new Yangtze River bridges that Glabb has added to the table I'd created, I have to say that the number of bridges is growing at a faster pace than even I had anticipated. Which ever table format we settle on must be easy to update. ShakyIsles, I really like your animation idea. It'll help show the concentration of bridges around certain cities, while other stretches of the river have large gaps without bridges. Anhui Province, for a long time, has had only 4 bridges, although Glabb's table shows that is about to change. The bridge tally graph is easier to create but would only show aggregate numbers rather than which bridges and where. ContinentalAve (talk) 06:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Photo problem

Now, I'm no genius, but I think that the photos of the Shanghai Yangtze River Bridge and Tunnel should be switched.--172.162.3.71 (talk) 08:26, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done All fixed! ShakyIsles (talk) 19:50, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

MaanshanBridgeView.jpg

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Requested move 9 August 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close. No valid rationale with 1 opposition (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 05:54, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bridges and tunnels across the Yangtze River → List of bridges and tunnels across the Yangtze River – Please place your rationale for the proposed move here. 112.200.9.88 (talk) 11:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC) 112.200.9.88 (talk) 11:02, 9 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 18:49, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:CONCISE and that this article is much more than a list. Station1 (talk) 06:08, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment why does this use "across" while your other nominations use "crossing" ? -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 05:54, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.