Talk:Womyn's land

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Changing the article's established reference/citation style

No editor can suddenly change how sources are cited in an article. (a) Per WP:CIT: "Citation templates are used to format citations in a consistent way...editors should not...change an article with a consistent citation format to another, without gaining consensus"; (b) WP:CITEVAR: "Editors should not attempt to change an article's established citation style merely on the grounds of personal preference, to make it match other articles, or without first seeking consensus for the change....When an article is already consistent, avoid: switching between major citation styles, e.g. parenthetical and <ref> tags".
On 9 March 2019, User:Woodsy lesfem added content, for the first time, with parenthetical referencing, using Template:Sfn -- which was contrary to the existing inline citation style that was used in the article. Even WP:PAREN > Consistency states: "If you choose to use this style...it should be used for all citations in the article, not merely a selected subset....you should not use inline footnotes (using <ref> tags) for reliable sources that are websites, and parenthetical citations for those reliable sources that are books."
It wasn't until today that I took a closer look at the citations in source screen. I did so after seeing the redundancy of the same citation ("[80]") that was added 3x to the introductory sentence in Fiction.
There's more to editing Wikipedia than having good intentions; you also need to follow policies and guidelines ... and there are many. When it comes to citing sources, the guidelines are unambiguous. Pyxis Solitary yak 11:14, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I didn't utilize the talk page/get consensus before I switched them, but I'll switch them back if it's really disagreeable. The point was to be able to reference the key sources without severely bloating the reference section. Some of the sources I've switched to sfn probably won't be used that often so that's a mistake on my part. I just figured citing, for example, Shugar or Keridwen for ideas expressed over the course of their books would create an unwieldy reference section, in terms of a full citation for each time I use another page from the book. WP:IBID describes what I was trying to do--even if I didn't go about it the right way, I still think there's merit in using sfns. WP:SFN, two sections down on that page, helps me understand it a little, but I still am unclear on how sfns and long footnotes coexist. I've seen a lot of articles set up like Winston Churchill#References, where sfns and long citations are together in the notes section. This was what I was trying to do by converting the heavily referenced sources (or sources I hope to reference heavily as I expand the article--I understand this puts the cart before the horse though) to sfns. I understand it's a little late now, but I'd like to discuss it further before switching everything back if it can be useful Woodsy lesfem (talk) 15:34, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CITEVAR guideline is clear: "If the article you are editing is already using a particular citation style, you should follow it...." The citation style that existed before you began to edit the article -- {{cite web}}, {{cite book}}, {{cite journal}} -- did not hinder the understanding of the article's text and sources used for content verification.
You may consider the use of parenthetical references as less "bloating", but many non-academic and scientific readers may find them obtrusive and interruptive. Whatever an individual editor's idea may be regarding their preferred referencing style, in Wikipedia the referencing style within an article must be consistent with the already-prevailing style. You discovered this article 10 months after it was created, made 3 edits within the same month, then returned 13 months later (almost 2 years after article was established), rearranged content, and started editing the article using parenthetical references.
In regards to citing "Shugar or Keridwen for ideas expressed over the course of their books", there's also the risk of citation overkill. So instead of the bloating you think may occur, you instead create citation clutter; and as in the case of the no."80" reference for "Luis 2018" that was repeated 3x (side by side), you also create senselessness in the article.
I've observed that you are an intelligent editor and I do not doubt that you mean well, but when it comes to using parenthetical references, sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Pyxis Solitary yak 05:45, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Pyxis Solitary and Woodsy lesfem: I volunteer to bring it back to the original citation style. It's a simple find and replace operation after all. But first, I have a suggestion:

Can we please use {{rp}}:

However, as each group developed distinct ideologies, tension formed between radical feminists and lesbian separatists.^[1]^: 39 Lesbian separatists used the separatist ideology as a way to "test one's feminist commitment,"^[1]^: 40 which resulted in a divide.

References

^ ^a ^b Shugar, Dana R. (1995). Separatism and Women's Community. University of Nebraska Press. ISBN 978-0803242449.

instead of repeating the full footnotes literally dozens of times:

However, as each group developed distinct ideologies, tension formed between radical feminists and lesbian separatists.^[1] Lesbian separatists used the separatist ideology as a way to "test one's feminist commitment,"^[2] which resulted in a divide.

References

^ Shugar, Dana R. (1995). Separatism and Women's Community. University of Nebraska Press. p. 39. ISBN 978-0803242449.
^ Shugar, Dana R. (1995). Separatism and Women's Community. University of Nebraska Press. p. 40. ISBN 978-0803242449.

Cheers – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:57, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sources used more than once are supposed to use refnames. For book sources with more than one referenced page, using "|ref name=XYZ" along with "|pages=1, 2" is sufficient. Using individual {{rp|p=1}} {{rp|p=2}} etc. can confuse less experienced editors and create clutter. I stick to the templates, which are provided in the editing toolbar under Cite > Templates > cite web, cite news, cite book, cite journal. Adding an extra layer to how it's done is not the goal of WP:CITEVAR, which is to have a uniform citation style for all editors to follow. The only time citations deviate from the uniformity is when newer editors dive in without bothering to review how sources are cited, and when students are assigned articles without their teachers instructing them on how to edit Wikipedia. (Thankfully, Wikipedia has also moved away from using Harvard style citations, since W is not an academic project.) Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 18:05, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New source

In the current year's first issue of Women's History Review (Lesbian Nation issue) several articles are open access. Among these is "‘A meeting of different tribes’? Travelling women and mobility between European and Australasian women’s lands", doi:10.1080/09612025.2021.1954336 by Rebecca Jennings. There's new info in this article on 'Amazon Acres' in Australia, 'Kvindelandet' in Denmark and 'Cefn Foellat' in Wales. Jennings also writes about the many women travelling to visit these and other womyn's lands, almost leading a nomadic lifestyle. (I always thought the Van Dykes were kind of unique in their itinerancy. Well, they were not.)

One of the sources of this article is the very readable "Sisterhood and Squatting in the 1970s: Feminism, Housing and Urban Change in Hackney", doi:10.1093/hwj/dbx024 (2017) by Christine Wall, about the dozens of (lesbian) women squats in the London borough of Hackney in the 70s. SanderO (talk) 23:54, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: LGBTQ Reproductive Health

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2024 and 9 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Fvreeves (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Fvreeves (talk) 18:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Shugar1995-1] Shugar, Dana R. (1995). Separatism and Women's Community. University of Nebraska Press. ISBN 978-0803242449.

[2] Shugar, Dana R. (1995). Separatism and Women's Community. University of Nebraska Press. p. 39. ISBN 978-0803242449.

[3] Shugar, Dana R. (1995). Separatism and Women's Community. University of Nebraska Press. p. 40. ISBN 978-0803242449.

[1]

[1]

[2]