Talk:Wii homebrew

Deletion

I'm thinking this article should be kept. It seems like this would be the most logical place for work on a wii linux port to take place since xbox-linux.org and playstation2-linux.org are used for the same purpose. As for the claim that this is just an ad for a website. The website is non profit and will most likely just be a money pit, there's nothing monetary to gain from more traffic. fintler 15:07, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not meant as a place to "work on" anything. It is an Encyclopedia and even if the site is non profit it is only serving to advertise the project at this time.Sir hugo 15:07, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. I see your point. Maybe later then :) fintler 15:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking that im thinking of agreeing that the article in question should be kept.....(you can say that in response to any question) But more seriously, i do believe this page should be kept, it is informing people of a project to run linux on the wii... and while the project hasnt really commenced yet, it is still something that people would like to get information on, in fact i came here and looked for this page when someone told me about the wii-linux program. and while i am not completely impartial now, i have subsequently joined the website in question. but the wiki article was helpfull in that sense, it led me to it, so im pretty confident in leaving it, ill take the deletion notices down, but i will try and fix up a bit more of the content aswell.Dionysus 15:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Consider this though. This article led you to the site, it was used to advertise the site then. This is not what WP is for. If the WP Linux project actually comes up with something notable or produces a product or even becomes an internet fad then it will warrant an article, until then I stand by the deletion proposition.Sir hugo 15:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

yes it did lead me to the site, but in the way that the google page on wiki has a link to google. my feelings arent too strong on the matter however, so if you wish to put it up for deletion again, i won't argue next time Dionysus 22:46, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

• I vote Keep. The Wii Linux project is well known, particularly amongst the kinds of people who also use Wikipedia. Whether they actually succeed in porting Linux to the Wii is irrelevant to their level of fame and/or notoriety, and to whether people want to know about them. Whether you think they are genuine, or whether you think they are trying to con you out of your money is also irrelevant, since people want to know either way. Just put up an article about a well known project, and cover their successes and failures, and their support and their controversies. That is what Wikipedia is for. Carl Kenner 16:04, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I note that there were a lot of bogus keep votes on the afd discussion page which I suspect resulted in the lack of consensus. This article desperately needs to be deleted or renamed to homebrew as it is pretty much devoid of any meaningful content at present. 59.167.63.205 05:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

• This article could condense and merge neatly into a 'Homebrew' subhead under the Wii 'Software Library' section. I don't think it's notable enough for its own article yet, but the fact that the project is being pursued deserves a mention at the bottom of the parent article. --Streetstealth 23:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Removed this

Removed this: " However, due to the outages and general uncertainty about Wiili, most new development about the Wii Remote takes place at the WiiBrew Wiki. "

If you visit both sites you will find that actually wiili.org is well ahead on development and contributions (this includes the translations and forums which wiidev doesn't even have). If some one doesn't agree there's no need to talk about this "uncertainty" as it's clearly trying to hurt one of the websites developing Linux for the Wii.

Reread that line again. Work on the Wii Remote is clearly ahead on the WiiBrew Wiki. Compare: [1] [2]. Wiimote != Wii in general. I will also re-add a more-NPOV version of the previous "controversy" section, as most of the information there, while somewhat-POV, is correct. If you find anything that you feel is POV, please change it, but don't delete the whole section. 83.36.95.40 16:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Major confusion between two projects

I posted a (similar) comment to the AfD page. This article is in need of some serious cleanup, as it is completely mixing up two projects, the Wii Linux Project, and WiiLi. Most of what's in this article is actually about the latter (except for the arstechnica/slashdot quotes, which are about the former), but for some reason at some point both were considered the same project and WiiLi/Wiili now redirect to this article's page. The former project has absolutely nothing and is not notable at all IMO (they haven't even had an update since the wii came out, and their wiki is basically empty), while the latter is a well-known (if controversial and of debatable merit) project.

Personally though, I'd just say delete the whole thing and create a single article (say, Wii homebrew) to encompass all of these sites and also including non-linux-specific homebrew (wiibrew, wiire, etc). Currently anyway, there is no Linux on Wii development, since it is impossible to run homebrew code, so the efforts to run homebrew in the first place are far more important (and more general). Stuff like the Wiimote reverse engineering is also not specific to Linux. Once someone comes up with some linux that actually runs on the wii, it might deserve its own page. Marcan 06:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• The http://www.wii-linux.com/ page has has not been updated since the Nintendo Wii was released. It still refers to the Wii as "soon to be released". Wiili on the other hand is the site usually refered to as the Wii Linux project. I say put a "This article refers to the Wii Linux project that is also known as WiiLi, not the http://www.wii-linux.com site." Or something worded better, if you think there will be confusion. Carl Kenner 15:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
  • See, the actual name of Wiili is, as far as I know, Wiili (or WiiLi). This page was clearly created with the original reference to http://wii-linux.com (see slashdot and arstechnica references), and later on someone redirected Wiili to it and it started to instead inform about Wiili, while still retaining the old name. I'm still going to recommend deleting the whole thing, creating Wii homebrew, documenting the projects cleanly there (and updating the information), and redirecting all these to that.

Controversy, controsmurfy

None of the actual web sites are particularly notable yet so having a major chunk of this little article talking about wannabe homebrew web sites squabbling with eachother just has to go.

• Who cares about petty issues with site donations?
• Who cares about which site is more up to date than another?
• Who cares about server moves?
• Who cares about external sites trying to use their advocates to push an agenda on wikipedia? (okay so this is relevant but not relevant in the article)

There is no linux for Wii and it looks to be way off so this whole article makes no sense at present. If someone eventually works out how to load unsigned code there may eventually be an opportunity to load linux but for now it is pretty much only controller hacking so this article should be about Wii homebrew. If the section on linux ever gets longer than "we don't have the vaguest clue how to do it" it might warrant a separate article.

I removed the controversy section but one of the zealots readded it. I leave it to consensus to do the right thing. 59.167.63.205 23:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

To be clear, I don't want to poo poo people's efforts on Wii homebrew, but there seems to be as much action on Wikipedia than on these other web sites. 59.167.63.205 23:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Catagory:Wii

Should this be included in the wii catagory? Mattyatty 19:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Restructuring / Cleanup

If no one has a better idea or is opposed to this, I will:

• Create Wii homebrew
  • Document the current status of homebrew (outside of specific sites)
  • Document the community (sites, IRC channels, and the like).
• Redirect everything else to it

Possible alternative: move this page to Wii homebrew, instead of creating a new one (still otherwise doing the above).

The title of this article is not appropriate, and using this to document the various available projects isn't really an option. The whole thing needs cleanup, and the subject doesn't deserve a single article per each and every project/site out there.

As for the "fanboy" section, I think it deserves a mention, although in a more general article like Wii homebrew, it should be much more condensed.

Any comments? Marcan 03:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Agree. At present there are only a couple of notable sentences in this article and all the so called controvesy is petty and irrelevant. 59.167.63.205 21:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I've revamped most of the layout, consolidated content and added additional information on some of the projects that have actually delivered results so far. 59.167.56.72 23:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Removed section about "Hullbreach Wii Remote SDK"

I removed the following text from the "Wii Remote with Javascript" section:

 The Wii Remote SDK[3] is in development at HullBreach to 
 streamline the process of integrating Wii Remote button presses into homebrew Wii software using 
 technologies based on Javascript such as AJAX. The Wii Remote SDK has been used in various 
 demonstration software at HullBreachOnline and is available for limited beta testing at this point with 
 the full release coming in June 2007. In addition to detecting button inputs, the SDK's full release will
 contain classes for 3D rotation math, texture-mapping, graphical effects, gesture input of the Wii 
 Remote pointer, and communication protocols for multiplayer gaming. It is the hope of the developer, 
 Daniel Gump, that the Wii Remote SDK will further develop Wii homebrew development for Opera.

While it may be interesting information in the future, I cannot currently substantiate it from any independent sources. The only mention of Hullbreach itself is the author's promotions. Indeed, I can't substantiate the very existence of such an API, as the referenced page on the Hullbreach site makes no mention of an SDK in development.

Therefore, I have removed the section based on Wikipedia:Notability and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. I would also caution the author against further self-promotion as this is the third time a link to Hullbreach has been removed for non-notability. I would recommend taking a look at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest for more guidance on self-promotion. --Jbanes 01:37, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Rather than jumping to conclusions on the matter, isn't it better that you ask the source? You say that no such mention of the SDK exists, yet it is in plain print at the source. I believe this to be a conflict of interest as you are the author of the API at WiiCade and perhaps see the Wii Remote SDK as competition. If I am wrong on that assumption, please contact me, and we can discuss both our intentions as I know we would both like the see Wii homebrew advanced. Geekrecon 02:50, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. First, allow me to apologize on not seeing the SDK link. My browser was probably showing me the cached version of the page, so I did not see it. Having the link there definitely helps, though I'm thinking the reference should be directly to the "coming soon" SDK page rather than its parent.

On the subject of conflict of interest, I'd like to point out that we all walk a very fine line. So if it seems I'm hard on you, it's because we all need to be held to extremely high standards for this page. It has already been up for deletion once, and will probably go up again if it appears to be an advertisement page.

You mentioned the WiiCade API, which you correctly identified as my work. (Something which I make no secret of.) However, a download page exists, third party games exist that use it, and it has been mentioned by major news sources such as Joystiq, Ars-Technica, and Wired. That is the only reason why it is mentioned here. Work on the variety of other technologies that WiiCade will be hosting is not mentioned (despite a variety of self-published sources) due to the aforementioned conflict of interest and lack of notability.

Remember, Wikipedia is not for promotion! It is for information that already has achieved a certain level of notability, and can be confirmed by independent sources. (See Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources_.28online_and_paper.29) I have little doubt that if you continue with your work, Hullbreach will become notable. But it is not yet there, and you can't use Wikipedia as a vehicle to achieve that notability.

The reason why I made this section about the edit was so that my decision to remove your text could be evaluated out in the open for other editors to evaluate for themselves. I made certain to reproduce your edit here to make it easy to restore should a consensus be found that it is notable.

That being said, the fact that a page about the SDK is up, it strengthens the case for it being included. I still don't think that it should be yet included, but I'm going to punt on this one. I'll try to find a few of the previous editors of this page to do an evaluation on the information and make a decision.

(For reference, the SDK page direct link is http://hullbreachonline.com/wii/sdk.html.) --Jbanes 04:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Jbanes, check out http://hullbreachonline.com/wii/sdk.html and the associated demo and documentation. How do you feel about the readiness of thise website to be mentioned as a source for the Javascript use with the Wii now? I want a consensus before adding it. Geekrecon 23:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been away for a while. The new SDK page is nice. I especially like the Starfox demo. However, you need notability before adding it to Wikipedia. i.e. Do any other sites discuss the project? Especially ones that demonstrate an actual impact on the Wii homebrew community?

BTW, I did contact several other editors but none of them ever volunteered to weigh in on this issue. So if you still wish to contest the issue, I recommend trying to track down an admin and ask them to make a determination. :-) Jbanes 17:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Discussion has been going on in the forums at Nintendo.com and WiiNintendo.net. I've also spoken with people briefly at GoNintendo.com and 4ColorRebellion.com. Of those websites several individuals have signed up for the newsletter that will begin this week, and a few others have asked for source code to immediately begin production of their own projects. The project will soon be on SourceForge as well. Geekrecon 18:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, none of those items establish notability. From WP:Notability, "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Forum discussions and newsletters are neither significant or independent. Nor is inclusion on Sourceforge. We need something that's actually citable, like in a science paper. Usually that means some sort of news coverage. Wikipedia can be kind of loose at times, so anything that shows it to have a significant impact on the topic is usually acceptable. Jbanes 04:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

There have now been articles about the Wii Opera SDK posted at 4colorrebellion.com, bomb-omb.com, nintendowiifanboy.com, opera.com, qj.net, nintendo-scene.com, netcode.cz, wii-inf.com, dynamick.it, talk-wii.com, olylimited.com, eurekster.com, and more. If that is not enough notability, then nothing is. Geekrecon 08:14, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry it took me so long to find this guys, i just got the message asking me to give an opinion, ive been away from computers for awhile. I would tend to agree with Jbanes that notability is required, and while i havent actually been to read any of those articles listed above, i would agree that qj.net, wiifanboy, and opera.com are probably enough to satisfy the notability requirement... if they specifically comment on it. however the lack of apparant active users of the SDK would not qualify it in my opinion at least Bumpoh —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bumpoh (talk • contribs) 02:11, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Eh, it was done already... Look up WiiToo! (with the !) 75.119.16.95 (talk) 02:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Remote Buddy, yay or nay?

It looks like an IP address just added a section about the Mac application, Remote Buddy. While the application itself has won several awards and is probably notable enough for an article of its own, I question whether it belongs here or not. Apparently the company recently added the Wii Remote to their list of supported remote devices. However, I don't see that adding a feature that has been well explored by other (free) drivers does much to advance the state of homebrewing. My inclination is therefore to remove the reference. Does anyone agree? Jbanes 04:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Attempted Cleanup of Steaming Media Section

First of all, the grammar was horrible in this section. It looked like an elementary school kid wrote it. Remember that this is an encyclopedia article, and all grammar must be carefully checked for professionalism. I attempted to clean up some of the grammar, but it was too painful to work on in a single sitting.

Second, this section of the article serves very little purpose in adding to the article. It is simply a list of competing websites, all wishing to make themselves sound like the end-all solution after incrementally tacking their plugs to the end of the section. Many should be removed; some can be merged into bullet points or lists.

Geekrecon 23:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I just deleted the broken link to orb.com and the completely unrelated link to Weezo.com. They appeared to have been attempts at promoting unrelated software that just happens to work with the Wii.

Geekrecon 23:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Merging of Web-related Sections

Are there any objections to the merger of the three sections that refer to Web homebrew (Javascript, Flash, Streaming)? Geekrecon 23:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Due to the lack of ojections to the section merger, I went ahead and cleaned it up. I also did extensive rewording to the section to make it sound more like an encyclopedia article and less like a classified ad. If anyone would like to add more information, that's fine with me. I kept some items and removed others for grammatical flow. Another big addition was official documentation from Opera's website, which was greatly lacking in the "classified ad" that was the section. Let me know what you think. Geekrecon 20:41, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The merger isn't bad, but you lost a lot of info in the transition. Information about Flash on the Desktop as well as the important Quasimondo contribution have been lost. In addition, I think there's too much information on the technical aspects of the browser for a non-technical article. That's the sort of thing that's better served in an article on another site, then linked to by the Wikipedia article.

As it stands right now, the info on the button handling is original research as it does not cite any sources. I recommend publishing that research elsewhere, then link to it from the Wikipedia article. There's a fairly popular library here that uses the same trick, but I don't know if he publishes the information on the method anywhere.

Do you want to take a whack at improving the section, or shall I? Jbanes 17:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The button information came straight from the official article at Opera.com. I just figured it was best to cite the source at the end of the few paragraphs instead of multiple times.

Ah, I see what you did. You can actually reuse the same reference in Wikipedia. Just type out <ref name="refname"/> with the same reference name rather than creating a whole new reference. That will allow you to place a [?] reference box for each paragraph.

If you'd like to add back the research leading to the Flash button detection, I have no problem with that. I just personally felt that it has nothing to do with Wii Opera. I seems to be more suited for another section of the article, perhaps in Wii Remote hacking.

The Quasimondo API is very similar to the WiiCade API. It developed the "trick" that makes JS->Flash communication work. The WiiCade API is significantly more advanced, but it was preceeded by the Quasimondo API. I believe Yatsha is still using Quasimondo's work for their games.

Without the technical details, this article seems to be nothing more than plugs for a bunch of unknown websites. The technical details, to me, legitimize the research done by several people, making the article appear as something that would be in an encyclopedia instead of a classified ad.

This is not a technical article. It's intended to provide an overview of what projects have significantly advanced the state of Wii Homebrewing. In that respect it's not a bad article. Technical details are neither here nor there for purpose of the article, unless the details directly relate back to the events that brought about a major impact.

I have no problem with continuing to clean up the article since it seems like both of us and maybe two other people are the only contributors anymore. Geekrecon 18:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it would seem that way. And to be honest, it concerns me. I'll try to fix things up more when I get the time. Jbanes 04:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Recent developments

Over at the Chaos Communication Congress there has been some real progress in getting some Wii mode homebrew, this page should be updated, and the vigilance raised since there is probably a lot of new stuff coming out about it the new couple of weeks.--Henke37 (talk) 00:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

- Updated, briefly mentioned it and tried to remove references to the previous "impossibility" of Wii homebrew.

[tnd]  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.245.109.240 (talk) 18:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC) 

initial reports of savegame exploit

According to http://www.tehskeen.com/ a savegame exploit for Zelda: Twilight Princess has allowed "4 lines" of homebrew code to be run without use of a modchip. The method reportedly involves creating a modified savegame file with proper cryptographic signatures. "Assuming we don't run into a wall, it should be able to lead to a homebrew loader. I hope. No promises. :)" Hopefully this can make its way onto the main Wii homebrew page as more details and permanent links to the information become available. 206.222.212.218 (talk) 20:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Broken Link

My apologies if this is the wrong place to report this, but it appears that link #10 (http://wii.nintendo.com/wii_faq_internet.jsp) is no longer valid. I'm not sure if there is another source for that information or if it has simply been removed. Phoenix00017 (talk) 03:33, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

wiiflash not browser based

The wiiflash.org project should be filed as "wiimote on other platforms", with an input server for the Wiimote and a Flash client. The mention of "ActionScript 3.0" should've made it obvious. 85.177.141.100 (talk) 13:06, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Twilight Princess Hack

This is a rather well known trick used to put homebrew on the Wii; it even has a stickied topic on GameFAQs! Why hasn't it been added to this article yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.252.43.138 (talk) 19:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Some developed Homebrew Wii Games

• Pong2
• BibleQuiz
• RedSquare

Waninkoko's modchip-less backup homebrew

I don't know much about editing wikipedia, but Waninkoko (wii.waninkoko.info), the creator of the WAD tools and cIOS, has been working on a backup loader without the need of a modchip. It has been recently leaked and is now to be found all over. I think this should in some way be represented in the article. Discussion of the loader can be found here http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=104722 and an incomplete faq here http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=105670 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.75.189.37 (talk) 08:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Terrible

This page is terribly written in most places, with both historically inaccurate and just plain wrong information. The style is attrocious. There are dozens of glaring omissions. I really don't have the time to correct it myself at the moment, could someone add a banner to this effect (the cleanup banner)? Thanks. 79.72.82.40 (talk) 10:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

No offense, but your comment is pretty worthless without actual details. While you don't have to fix it yourself, you need to give others an idea of what to fix. What is historically inaccurate? What is wrong? What is wrong with the style? What has been omitted? If you at least put together a simple list, plenty of editors will fix the article. Rurik (talk) 16:22, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the guy above Rurik. This is more likely to confuse the hell out of people than to provide any information. Ive made some edits to this page and its still terrible. Ill try posting this on a few sites and see if i can get some people to help clean it up. --24.205.253.215 (talk) 04:41, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

See, the problem with this article is that it's horribly outdated (not to mention written poorly). The article, with the exception of a few mentions, completely ignores all that Team Twiizers has done. It doesn't even mention BootMii, other than noting that Bannerbomb uses it to run software. I'll try and fix up a few things in the article later, but, in my opinion, it needs a full rewrite. Unknownlight (talk) 18:48, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you think a tag or a would help? Jasonxu98 (talk) 01:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Merging ?

I think this page should be merged into Homebrew (video games) -- even though I am a wii homebrew coder myself :P (I am Wack0, softmii dev and i coded WiiSCU). Why ? Because there already is a page about video games homebrew .. there doesn't need to be another one ;) 80.225.189.123 (talk) 14:28, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Image

Does anyone think that this page needs some images (like of the homebrew channel, SD cards, homebrewing process, etc.)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.204.118.34 (talk) 19:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I forgot to sign 209.204.118.34 (talk) 19:45, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Legal

Feels like the Legal section on this page is rushed and doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the page. It says its legal to use, but doesnt say why it is. " A list of all Homebrew Channel compatible legal applications may be found at WiiBrew, a wiki dedicated for homebrew development on the Wii." Seems odd that thats thrown in there as well. Such uses are completely discouraged by Team Twiizers - Why, What uses, and How? This section could use a lot of work in my mind. --64.113.125.209 (talk) 18:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Deletion

This article should be deleted becuase of it bad information and that the Homebrew Channel , the only program to succsessfuly hack the wii with out destroying it. the information on this page has nothing to do with this subject, it needs to be corrected in every paragraph, their people trying to advertise their websites to this page should be deleted pernimently.

-the only way it could stay would be fixing and make it more reasonable to keep. which would be alot of work which im not going to do all by myself.

BEWARNED or be DELETED --Blueluke234 (talk) 20:26, 4 April 2011 (UTC)