Talk:W. E. B. Du Bois/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Who wrote this rubbish? The Du Bois Clubs?

The Cold War is over, and Du Bois' side not only lost, but was utterly discredited. Yet this article seems ripped from the pages of Izvestia. And who checked it for POV?

This article ignores the issue of religious Stalinism. For example, did Du Bois support the Hitler Stalin pact? Did he think that the Poles wanted the Lublin Group to rule them? Or that the United States started the Korean War? (Or does this mean that I'm a MacCarthyite for bringing the matter up?)

In the end, Du Bois was a self-made joke and never advanced the cause of racial justice. Instead, he identified it with the world's most bloodthirsty tyrant (and a disgusting racist as well).

At least add a POV tag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.46.91 (talk) 08:31, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Semicolon and...

I noticed a number of instances in this article of "; and". According to every grammar book and website I've ever read, you don't use conjunctions with semicolons. You can use conjunctive adverbs (however, moreover, therefore, consequently, otherwise, nevertheless, thus, etc.) or just remove the "and" and leave the semicolon. Bobnorwal (talk) 00:07, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out ... I take responsibility for any grammatical errors. My understanding of semicolons is that they are a pause, a bit longer than a comma, but shorter than a period. The MOS WP:HOWEVERPUNC says that "however" is okay after a semicolon (as you point out above), yet "however" is identical to "but" in that situation. And "but" and "and" should be treated the same in grammar rules. As you might glean, I'm not hard over on grammar rules: I view English as a dynamic, living language that evolves over time. I view grammar rules as descriptive, not prescriptive. That said, I don't own this article, so if any editor wants to improve any grammar in this article, their efforts would be appreciated. --Noleander (talk) 00:59, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

wording: blind, incensed

My opinion on the wording choices: (1) "is blind to" is probably better than ignored or other choices. The sources suggest that he was looking thru rose-colored glasses; like a parent blind to their own child's faults. (2) "incensed" seems best of the choices I've seen so far. Outraged it not bad, but it was more of a slow burn; a teeth-grinding, silent "I'll show you". Just my 2 cents, from what I read in the sources. --Noleander (talk) 14:42, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

"Blind" is a bit metaphoric, but I understand your point. It seems fine. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 16:09, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

NPOV?

"Du Bois was bitterly disappointed that many of his colleagues – particularly the NAACP – did not support him during his 1951 PIC trial, whereas working class whites and blacks supported him enthusiastically" Huh? This sounds like communist propaganda. Working class whites supported Du Bois? in 1951? A handful of very left-wing ones, maybe. 169.231.55.127 (talk) 05:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Many white communists and socialists in the 1930s through 1950s were strong supporters of African-American causes. For example, communists were the primary defenders of the Scottsboro Boys. In any case, the material quoted above is an accurate reflection of what the sources say. --Noleander (talk) 05:57, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

WhiteWash

Du Bois was a open Stalinist who cheered the invasion of Hungary, eulogized Stalin as a "great man ... simple, calm and courageous", and was a supporter of eugenics. Why none of this is included in a "featured article" supposedly the best of what Wikipedia has to offer, is a fitting testament for this place. WallyBert (talk) 16:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Do you have some sources you think should be included?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:41, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Would it really matter? 74.8.175.242 (talk) 16:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Joseph Stalin was a great man; few other men of the 20th century approach his stature. He was simple, calm and courageous. He seldom lost his poise; pondered his problems slowly, made his decisions clearly and firmly; never yielded to ostentation nor coyly refrained from holding his rightful place with dignity. He was the son of a serf but stood calmly before the great without hesitation or nerves. But also—and this was the highest proof of his greatness—he knew the common man, felt his problems, followed his fate. [1]

74.8.175.242 (talk) 16:50, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

If you have a secondary source which could add more insight to the article, provide it and we can probably include more material. The quote you provide above is a primary source. Du Bois wrote millions of words on thousands of topics. One can selectively quote him to prove anything. Secondary sources (historians/biographers) who have distilled and analyzed his thoughts are better sources for this article. Based on my research, his opinions on communism/socialism (a) evolved over time; and (b) were often contradictory. The article currently has a "Cold War" section which reads as follows:

When the Cold War commenced in the mid 1940s, the NAACP distanced itself from Communists, lest its funding or reputation suffer.[207] The NAACP redoubled their efforts in 1947 after Life magazine published a piece by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. claiming that the NAACP was heavily influenced by Communists.[208] Ignoring the NAACP's desires, Du Bois continued to fraternize with communist sympathizers such as Paul Robeson, Howard Fast and Shirley Graham (his future second wife).[209] Du Bois wrote "I am not a communist ... On the other hand, I ... believe ... that Karl Marx ... put his finger squarely upon our difficulties ...".[210] In 1946, Du Bois wrote articles giving his assessment of the Soviet Union; he did not embrace communism and he criticized its dictatorship.[208] However, he felt that capitalism was responsible for poverty and racism, and felt that socialism was an alternative that might ameliorate those problems.[208] The soviets explicitly rejected racial distinctions and class distinctions, leading Du Bois to conclude that the USSR was the "most hopeful country on earth."[211] Du Bois's association with prominent communists made him a liability for the NAACP, especially since the FBI was starting to aggressively investigate communist sympathizers; so – by mutual agreement – he resigned from the NAACP for the second time in late 1948.[212] After departing the NAACP, Du Bois started writing regularly for the leftist weekly newspaper the National Guardian, a relationship that would endure until 1961.[213]

The section is not perfect, so if you can provide a secondary source, it could perhaps be incorporated. --Noleander (talk) 17:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I've added a sentence about his Eulogy to Stalin, and a paragraph on his views on Eugenics.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:32, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Honorary Emeritus Professorship at the University of Pennsylvania

On February 17th, 2012, Dr. W.E.B Du Bois was appointed Honorary Emeritus Professor in Sociology and Africana Studies at the University of Pennsylvania. This appointment was approved by the University of Pennsylvania Board of Trustees during an all-day conference held at Penn honoring Du Bois's scholarly accomplishments. 130.91.95.51 (talk) 15:05, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Sources: http://www.upenn.edu/almanac/volumes/v58/n21/dubois.html http://www.thedp.com/article/2012/02/w.e.b._du_bois_receives_honorary_emeritus_professorship

I believe this could be added under the "Personal Life" section of the page and right above the "Honors" section.

Done. Thanks for the suggestion. --Noleander (talk) 17:06, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Lead: "experienced little racism as a child"? proposed edit

The sentence in the lead that states Dubois "experienced little racism as a child" is contradicted by an incident he recounts on page 2 of Souls of Black Folk, where he describes how he first became aware of the "veil": 'I was a little thing, away up in the hills of New England...[the schoolchildren are exchanging greeting cards]...one girl refused my card -refused it peremptorily, without a glance. Then it dawned on me with a certain suddenness that I was different from the others...shut out from their world by a vast veil."

That this was by his account a formative event in his life makes the sentence in the lead inaccurate. I propose replacing it with a simple 'Dubois was born in Great Barrington, Massachusetts.' Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or any sources where Dubois himself says he experienced little racism as a child that would contradict his writing quoted here?

Juro2351 (talk) 14:17, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

DuBois's primary biographer, Lewis, makes a big deal out of the fact that the town DuBois grew up in was relatively tolerant (in contrast to former slave-holding states). Lewis make the point that DuBois grew up in New England, home of the abolitionist movement, and that his he went to school in an integrated situation. His friends and schoolmates were white (page 24-25). That tolerant environment influenced his outlook on life. When he went to Fisk, he experienced severe racism for the first time. I have no objection to improving the wording, as long as those concepts from the Lewis source are retained. The change you suggest above is a bit too much, and deprives the reader of valuable information. Can you propose something else? --Noleander (talk) 15:31, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I have to respectfully disagree. I don't see what the valuable content is in the statement "he experienced little racism" when it is contradicted by Dubois' own writings. If you want to illustrate the influence of growing up in a relatively tolerant, integrated setting on Dubois' later worldview, that's one thing, and if you want to follow Lewis's lead in contrasting the setting to the more overt racism he experienced later in his life, that's fine too, but the current sentence in the lead makes neither of those points.

The distinction between aversive and dominative forms of racism may be helpful here. An integrated classroom in Massachusetts in the 1870s was not somehow free from all racism - the incident Dubois relates fits well within the definition of aversive racism. Dubois expands on the significance of this event at length, both for his own development and in the development of other young black boys he knew, who had similar experiences. I think the text of chapter one of the Souls of Black Folk supports this interpretation clearly.

I'm not coming at this from some rigid historical method that says one should always prioritize the work of a historical figure over later biographers. I do think it is factually inaccurate to say he experienced little racism as a child when he begins his book elaborating on the effects of racism on him at an early age, and of how he came to the concept of the veil. I don't yet have the expertise to make either of the points (about the relatively tolerant early setting or its contrast with the racism Dubois experienced later in life) succinctly in the lead. But I do think this would be a better article without that line. Additionally, I think the line in the section Early Life: "...and he knew little discrimination" needs expansion/revision for similar reasons.

I'd appreciate your feedback! Does (as I see it) making a more nuanced account of his early life in the lead and in Early Life make sense to you?

Cheers! Juro2351 (talk) 14:10, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure that makes good sense. What about this: In the lead, we say merely that the town he grew up in was relatively integrated & tolerant. In "Early Life" change the existing sentence to say that he grew up in a fairly tolerant town that was integrated (and which treated his family well & paid for his college education) and his friends are schoolmates were white. Then we add a new sentence that says that he experienced his first examples of racism in his youth during the greeting card situation. How does that sound? --Noleander (talk) 14:40, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, sounds good. I think adding the word 'relatively' to the sentence in the lead, so that it reads: "Born in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, Du Bois grew up in a relatively tolerant and integrated community." (or similar) would be fine. For 'Early Life,' what do you think of something like: "Great Barrington's primarily European American community treated Du Bois generally well. He attended the local integrated public school and played with white schoolmates, though the racism he experienced even in this context would be one of the subjects of his later adult writing." Hopefully that doesn't change the balance of things too much. Let me know what you think.

Juro2351 (talk) 14:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that sounds good. --Noleander (talk) 02:28, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Done, and thank you for your help. Juro2351 (talk) 13:50, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Baseball section?

I reverted the section on baseball because I looked at a couple of the sources and they did not mention DuBois. Could we discuss here on the talk page first? What exactly do the sources say about DuBois & baseball? The Lewis biography does not mention baseball at all. --Noleander (talk) 16:21, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

The section on DuBois and baseball came from me. I thought I cited my source: Ken Burns Baseball, Inning 2, about an hour and twenty-two minutes into this second chapter.

I am a professional writer and editor accustomed to peer review. Somewhat new to wikipedia. In my 'spare' time, I enjoy interacting with baseball and its history, including baseball's connection with things beyond the baseball field. I am not an expert on DuBois, and never read "Lewis" or "the sources", though I am also interested in civil rights movement. Major themes in the Ken Burns' Baseball documentary are baseball's reflection (or at times generation) of broader economic, political, and social, ideas and manifestations, including the growth of the so-called Negro Leagues and their impact. Other authors and editors (besides Burns) participate in this Burns documentary.

This documentary, which is now ten chapters (called innings), I think is considered an accurate and credible source of information for the most part. The first nine chapters aired in 1994 and the tenth in 2010: with one exception, I have never heard or read anything from another source that directly contradicts or cannot be reconciled: One exception is a story a former player tells, at the close of Inning 5, of an alleged occurrence in the 1942 'Colored/Negro' World Series; the facts of the story have been seriously questioned, if not completely discredited. While the Burns documentary, generally, does not conflict with other sources, the Burns documentary, generally, does not cite sources.

I don't work for the Burns team and don't have any kind of property interest in the cited material. Just a fan. The effects racially-segregated baseball, the 'colored/negro leagues', and then Jackie Robinson, had on players, other individuals, communities, economies, America, and baseball, are themes as explored/developed as any in the documentary: each of the nine chapters spends on Jackie Robinson and/or Branch Rickey (chief executive of the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947), African-Americans/Black-Americans and baseball pre-1947; and, the obstacles and progress in connection with African-Americans/Black-Americans and executive and management roles in baseball, long after 1947.

While variations of stories about Jackie Robinson receive ever more press: Unfortunately for both the student of baseball and the student of civil rights movement, references to 'black baseball' and its importance go under-reported (and perhaps also pre-1947 racial segregation of baseball goes under-recognized): while many parties and sources work diligently to research and produce material from/of the Negro Leagues, there is some lack. Sometimes I edit wikipedia articles about baseball history, feel like I have to add or qualify, and do add or qualify, language in recognition of Negro League ball: one example is the 1947 World Series page, which I altered to note that Red Grier and Luther Farrell pitched no-hitters in a "world series" game.

I was watching Burns' Inning 2 the day I made the DuBois edit. After a montage about Rube Foster, the film mentioned DuBois, quoted DuBois making reference to Foster. Sources treating the Negro Leagues credit, without dissent, Foster, who began his career as a pitcher and manager in the 1900s, as the founder of the Negro National League (1920s). The name DuBois sounded familiar to me, but I had never known much about him; I then internet-searched DuBois, and read the Wikipedia page. After reading the DuBois page, I thought the matter in Burns' documentary connected with the material in the Wikipedia DuBois material to a degree worth referencing. If the Burns' material regarding DuBois is accurate. Which should be examined.

The following is a transcript of the spot in the documentary that I pin-cited in the DuBois edit I made, as well as some material immediately surrounding the pin-cited spot, which relates to Foster, whom DuBois allegedly referenced:

[from Ken Burns, Baseball (copyright 1994 The Baseball Film Product, Inc.), Inning 2 (1900-1910), at point beginning 1 hour, 22 minutes, 29 seconds, until point ending 1 hour, 23 minutes, 40 seconds:]

[Main narrator's commentary accompanied by photo of team with "Chicago" jerseys:]

". . . Black Chicago alone supported three great teams: the Leland Giants, the Unions, and the Union Giants."

[Supporting narrator apparently reading unacknowledged quotation; photo of team wearing "Chicago" baseball uniforms:]

"'Baseball should be taken seriously by the colored player. An honest effort of his great ability will open the avenue in the near future, wherein he may walk hand in hand with the opposite race in the greatest of all American games, baseball.'"

[Main narrator commentary, up-tempo blues guitar music begins, photo of John Lloyd and then photos of Rube Foster:]

"Two players dominated the decade [1900-1910]: John Henry "Pop" Lloyd was a hard-hitting shortstop whose fans called him the Black Honus Wagner. The authentic Wagner said he was honored by the comparison. [accord (for example) Hall of Fame, halloffame.org/hof/lloyd-pop] But best of all was Andrew "Rube" Foster, star pitcher and manager of the Chicago Leland Giants, who got his nickname by beating the great Rube Waddell in 1902. Foster's team had a record one season of one hundred and twenty three wins and only six losses. [Accord Baseball-Reference.com Bullpen (1910 Chicago Leland Giants), Wikipedia (same team); compare blackbaseball.com (90+% wins in fewer games for 1910 team); Seamheads.com (90+% from smaller sample size).] John McGraw himself [manager of the National League's New York Giants] quietly hired Foster to show the New York Giant pitching staff what he knew. Christy Mathewson is said to have learned to throw his celebrated fadeaway from Rube Foster."

[Audio and video of interview with Buck O'Neil, former player and manager of Kansas City Monarchs, with up-tempo blues music continuing underneath:]

"Excellent mind. Excellent mind. He was born to be baseball, Rube was. And he was actually, more or less, two innings ahead of everybody.

[O'Neil continues; music continues; close-up on photo of Rube Foster which pans out to "Chicago" team photo:]

"That was Rube Foster. Rube gave all of the signals. Rube put on all of the plays. And he had the men that could do just what he wanted them to do."

[Same music; same photo; main narrator replaces O'Neil audio:]

"Abandoned by the Federal Government, segregated from the rest of society, Black Americans were on their own. They established colleges, started newspapers, formed organizations to stop lynching. And now Rube Foster began to dream of organizing a league of black teams, which would one day compete with the major leagues, as equals."

[music concludes, ceases; photo of W.E.B. DuBois sitting, dressed in suit, at what seems his desk; main-narrator audio:]

"W.E.B. DuBois, editor of The Crisis, the journal of the new National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, recruited boys to sell subscriptions door-to-door by promising them baseball equipment."

[Video pans in on same photo of Dubois to closer focus on face; supporting narrator [allegedly?] quotes DuBois:]

"'Baseball is a most popular sport in this country. In every hamlet, town, and city, may be the future Rube Fosters. Romping over corner lots, batting, pitching, and learning how to play the game. Organize your team.' W.E.B. DuBois." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thegooddogman (talk • contribs) 06:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

WEB DuBois phd

After graduating from Harvard, where he was the first African American to earn a doctorate, he became a professor of history, sociology and economics at Atlanta University.

DuBois was not the first African American phd as the text could be interpreted.

Clarification:

After graduating in 1895 as the first African American to earn a doctorate from Harvard, he became a professor of history, sociology and economics at Atlanta University.

Note: the first African American phd was from Yale in 1876.

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/List_of_African-American_firsts

Terry Benson — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrybenson (talk • contribs) 01:53, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

New book

To add to further reading secion: * {{Cite book |last= Appiah |first= Kwame Anthony |authorlink= Kwame Anthony Appiah |year= 2014 |title= Lines of Descent: W. E. B. Du Bois and the Emergence of Identity |location= Cambridge, MA |publisher= [[Harvard University Press]] |isbn= 978-0-674-72491-4 }} — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.142.77 (talk) 19:01, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I've added it to the article. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:09, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2014

W.E.B Du Bois made major contributions to early american sociology(as well as classical sociology of the late 19th early 20th century) with his theories and publications, as well as research methods, I would like to tie them into his contributions to sociology of the early 20th/late 19th centuries Most of his publications were some of(if not) the first addressing social issues in inner-city America of the time.

Tgvfred (talk) 08:43, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

You have made no edit request in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ", so it is unclear what you want added.
Furthermore, you have not cited any reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information can be added to this article. - Arjayay (talk) 10:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

"first scientific treatise"

"He wrote the first scientific treatise in the field of sociology" is very contestable. Even if one were to consider the "sociology" of Auguste Comte or Herbert Spencer not to be "scientific", one could hardly so dismiss Emile Durkheim, who had published three important works before Du Bois wrote his PhD thesis. Expand to "... field of sociology of race relations"? Alternatively, "... one of the first scientific treatises ..."? --Wikiain (talk) 23:08, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected Edit Request on 23 February 2014

Please add "Shirley Graham Du Bois, in her memoir about life with Du Bois, remembered him giving her a copy of Darkwater and saying "My books do not have wide circulation... But I want you to have it, and particularly, I want you to read the first piece. It is -- my creed". The first piece being "Credo" suggests that Du Bois may have had a belief in God." after "His 1904 prose poem, "Credo", was written in the style of a religious creed and was widely read by the African-American community." in the Religion Subheading. Thank you and the citation is below.

Citation: Shirley Graham Du Bois, His Day Is Marching On: A Memoir of W.E.B. Du Bois (Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott, 1971), 45-52. Secondary source: Blum, Edward J. W.E.B. Du Bois, American Prophet. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania, 2007. 30-31. Print.

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Add it where? Do you have any non-primary RS? — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 01:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Please add it at the end of the "Religion" heading under "Later Life". The book by Edward Blum is a non-primary RS.

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 22:07, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Religion

I'm going to try to raise the sub-subsection on Religion up one level, for the topic appears broader than just late in DuBois' life. While I don't claim to be an expert, I right now have at a library carrel 2 books written on the subject throughout his life. Furthermore, the specific incidents initially cited in this section (before I added the refs), despite its location, occurred early in his life.Jweaver28 (talk) 18:45, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

David Graham Du Bois

Not sure if this should be included or not, but the closeness of David Graham Du Bois to his father can be demonstrated by the fact that David established and was the head of the WEB Du Bois Foundation, and ran the estate for his stepfather from his mother's death in 1977 until his own death in 2005: http://articles.latimes.com/2005/feb/10/local/me-dubois10

Fred — Preceding unsigned comment added by Perm Dude (talk • contribs) 22:02, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Clean up EL

It might be an idea to arrange the EL into some order, I think anytime we get more than 4 EL they need some structure by having categories and grouping them accordingly .--Inayity (talk) 14:15, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Edit request February 22, 2012 - remove racist, inflammatory language

The caption under the first portrait photo of WEB DuBois is and inflammatory.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Peatbog (talk • contribs) 23 February 2012

Edit request February 22, 2012 - remove racist, inflammatory language

Sorry, double post. I am not a regular talker.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Peatbog (talk • contribs) 23 February 2012

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:W. E. B. Du Bois/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Astrocog (talk · contribs) 15:50, 1 December 2011 (UTC) Had to work late IRL, so will have to finish tomorrow. AstroCog (talk) 04:04, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

• Make sure that all references have complete citation information. The books look fine, but the websites in the ref list have little more than a title and link. Try to get more bibliographic (webliographic?) information for them (author(s), dates, publisher, etc).

 Done Web sources have been supplemented with as much info as available, esp retrieval date. --Noleander (talk) 17:36, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   • Throughout, there are many one- and two-sentence paragraphs. Try to combine these into larger paragraphs.

    Done ... except for 2-sentence paragraph "Du Bois became incensed in 1961 .." at end of a section: it is entirely unrelated to the paragr above it, so cannot be combined.--Noleander (talk) 03:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

   • Be careful with language that borders on un-neutral. For example, "...some blacks felt that African Americans should not act as cannon fodder for what was a white man's war" should be modified to say something like "...for what they considered a white man's war."

    Done. --Noleander (talk) 00:20, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

   • Is it "African-American" or "African American"? I'm not sure, but be consistent throughout the article.

    Done. The convention is hyphen when used as an adjective; no hyphen when used as a noun. --Noleander (talk) 00:20, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

   • The lead may not be long-enough given the length of the article. Make sure that every section of the article is represented by at least a sentence or two in the lead, with larger sections represented by more sentences.

    Done - Added some important points to the lead, but the lead is getting a bit large (4 paragrph maximum, per WP:LEAD) so I did not include mention of every section from article, but I think I got all the important points. --Noleander (talk) 04:08, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

   • I've gone through and looked for obvious misspellings and grammar mistakes and am at a loss to find more. Good job in this respect. However, I highly recommend having a copy editor do a fine-tooth reading, especially for formatting issues (such as en- and em-dashes...I'm terrible with those). In fact, I recommend Finetooth, who is a great reviewer. (note: copy edit is not a requirement here to pass GAR)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   The most problematic issue with the content that I can see is the discussion of the Atlanta Compromise, the only references supporting the description come from biographies of Du Bois. I think to make this section stronger, you'll need broader references for the basic facts of the Atlanta Compromise - from sources independent of the Du Bois biographies. The linked Wikipedia article on the compromise is quite weak (doesn't affect this GAR), but it states that nothing was written down in the "agreement", so I think to make this section strongest in terms of verifiability and neutrality, you'll need to triangulate the facts from multiple, independent sources. I bring this up, because the language in this article is stronger than in places such as this. Sadly, there may be some readers who dispute the uncomfortable facts, so additional references will help.

 Done - I added more sources on the Atlanta Compromise; also added sources to the Atlanta Compromise article (for future reference ... did not improve the article yet); and improve the description of the A.C. in the Du Bois article. --Noleander (talk) 03:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   This is a comprehensive article which presents a compelling biography of Du Bois. Any interested reader would feel satisfied.

2. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   See comment above about Atlanta Compromise. Otherwise, no major red flags.

 Done See comments above. --Noleander (talk) 03:47, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

1. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   No edit wars. Seems stable, apart from improvements from main contributor.

2. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   • Make sure that the non-free images have the copyright holder listed in the fair use rationales. I noticed that not all of them did.

There are 3 pics that are an issue: File:Du Bois with Mao Tse Tung 1959B.jpg, File:WEB Du Bois PIC hearing reduced Resolution.jpg, File:Du Bois 95th birthday in Ghana 1963.jpg. Those are from the University of Massachusetts Amherst's Du Bois collection. here. There web site has a good assortment of photos, but they do not identify the copyright holder of each individual photo. Is it acceptable to indicate that fact ("copyright holder not known") in the fair use rationale? --Noleander (talk) 04:02, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

That's good enough for me and GAR, though you should make sure that's made clear in the file pages for those images. When an FAC reviewer looks at them, they'll want to know why the copyright holder is unknown.

 Done - added explanation to each of those image's fair-use rationale, explaining why copyright holder not (yet) known.

1. • Only a few images have alt-text. Be sure to put in alt-text for every image used in the article.

 Done. All have "alt" text except the book cover images, since the caption is adequate. --Noleander (talk) 03:54, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

1. Overall: This is a wonderful article with only minor issues as far as the GA criteria are concerned. I'll place a hold on the review until these are fixed. I think this article is near FA quality. I recommend getting a peer review and a copy edit, which will bolster its chances at FAC. You might also look at recent FANs and see who the active voters are and ask one or two to look over the article.

   Improvements made by Noleander bring this up to GA status. Congratulations!AstroCog (talk) 13:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

   Pass/Fail:

 Done All tasks above have been completed, with the exception of a few minor deviations, noted in the comments above. --Noleander (talk) 04:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Astrocog: Thanks for volunteering to review the article. I was planning on taking this article to FA sometime soon, so if you could subject the article to rather strict scrutiny, verging on FA standards, that would be great. Thanks. --Noleander (talk) 19:13, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

No problem. I'm reading it closely and checking all the little things. It's a big article, so I'm taking it bit by bit. It's a wonderful article, and very comprehensive, so I think you won't have much trouble with GA. Should have the review completed by tonight. Cheers, AstroCog (talk) 19:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Mason

Which lodge was he in? Seen this in a documentary, but forgot the title of the film. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.98.124 (talk) 00:19, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

University education

The article currently states,

In 1890, Harvard awarded Du Bois his second bachelor's degree, cum laude, in history.[Lewis]

I don't have access to the source, but am I right in thinking this should be "…making him the first African-American in history to receive a Harvard bachelor's degree" or similar?

This is an outstanding article, by the way, a credit to Wikipedia and to Du Bois. FourViolas (talk) 14:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Facepalm. The sentence is saying that the degree was awarded for completion of a course of study in the field of History. Sorry. If I'd read the article carefully, I would have noted that Du Bois was the sixth African American Harvard admit, and presumably not the first to graduate. Would it be okay to capitalize "History" to clarify, or shall we assume that most people are capable of avoiding my silly mistakes? FourViolas (talk) 03:33, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

photograph

Why is the photo not showing? SusunW (talk) 14:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

It seems ok now. Wikiain (talk) 23:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

References / Articles

New reference: "Inter-Racial Implications of the Ethiopian Crisis. A Negro View" in Foreign Affairs, vol. 14, nº 1, october 1935, ps. 82-92.Linspiration (talk) 08:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)linspiration

Status as first "scientific sociologist"

The lede of the article asserts that Du Bois was "wrote the first scientific treatise in the field of sociology". This argument, which has been advanced by Aldon Morris, is contentious even with regards to American sociology, where some would name Albion Small as a predecessor. However, globally, it is not contentious that Quetelet was an earlier, scientifically based, sociologist. So this sentence needs to be moderated, ie. "According to some, Du Bois wrote the first scientific treatise" or some such. Cheers. 89.23.241.204 (talk) 21:07, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

I can't see the source cited in the article, but this 1983 paper says

Nevertheless, the pioneering studies of African cultures and Afro-American realities and history initiated by W.E.B. DuBois from 1894 until 1915 stand not only as the first studies of black people on a firm scientific basis altogether- whether classified among the social or historical sciences - but they also represent the earliest ethnographies of Afro-America as well as a major contribution to the earliest corpus of social scientific literature from the United States.

which pointedly avoids the claim the article makes. Therefore fulfilling the request. FourViolas (talk) 23:06, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

The original source (page 165 of W. E. B. Du Bois: An Encyclopedia, edited by Mary Young and Gerald Horne) says:

Recognized for its thoroughness yet largely ignored for its social commentary at the time of its publication, The Philadelphia Negro stands as a classic in both (urban) sociology and African American studies because it was the first scientific study of the Negro and the first scientific sociological study in the United States (Wilson x).

The last bit in parentheses is a reference to:

Wilson, Walter, ed. The Selected Writings of W. E. B. Du Bois. New York: New American Library, 1970.

I think the change to the fourth paragraph of the lead was appropriate, but the original source supports what the article said in the "Atlanta University" section: The Philadelphia Negro "was the first scientific sociological study in the U.S. and the first scientific study of African Americans." — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:26, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing the quote. I agree that Young & Horne supports the status quo ante, but the intro of this sympathetic 2016 paper makes it clear that this position is contrary to "everything I learned as a PhD student in sociology...about the history of sociology" at a prestigious university—that is, contemporary academic consensus. On the other hand, this Aldon Morris seems to make a convincing and notable case against this consensus. It seems like WP:BALANCE is the way to go: either in the text or in a footnote, note that disagreement exists among contemporary historians of sociology about whether Du Bois was the first or merely a pioneering scientific American sociologist. FourViolas (talk) 05:25, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Not being a sociologist or a historian of sociology, I'm out of my depth here, but based on the underappreciation of Du Bois's Black Reconstruction in America, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he has been "whitewashed" out of the history of sociology just as he was erased from American historiography for most of the 20th century. I agree that we have to report what the majority of reliable sources say, but we can quote them in the footnotes. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 02:41, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

I haven't read the book (Morris' The Scholar Denied), but my understanding is that the argument isn't that he is the first scientific sociologist or even that his work was first, but that he is the founding scientific sociologist. Articles about the book seem interested in calling him the first, but I think there is a difference. It should be possible to find prior works (Florence Kelly or even Atlanta school contemporary, Kelly Miller, might present nearby examples), but Du Bois, in his influencing of Weber, etc, is foundational in a way that those contemporaries were not.Smmurphy^(Talk) 03:24, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing that up.The footnote quotes are good, and I think it might be worthwhile to get a sentence about what Morris' book says (with appropriate nuance) and how it's being received into the article, if we could do so while avoiding WP:Recentism. Here are the sources which have cited it so far. FourViolas (talk) 13:37, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

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"This article is about the black scholar"

"Black" seems unnecessary, as none of the other people on the dab page seem to be considered as "scholars". CJK09 (talk) 23:32, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Not only is "black" unnecessary, I don't think "scholar" conveys anything. I copied the description of Du Bois from the disambiguation page, which probably originated as the first sentence of this article: "American sociologist, historian, civil rights activist and author". — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 23:52, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Du Bois"

The pronunciation is incorrect. In Du Bois' own words, the name is supposed to end with an "s" sound rather than a "z" sound. He pronounced his own name as "Due Boyss, with the accent on the last syllable" in a letter to the Chicago Sunday Evening Club, Jan. 20, 1939, cited in David Levering Lewis p.11. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071216180519AABATNE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.174.180.207 (talk) 16:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

The article says his name is pronounced /duːˈbɔɪz/ doo-BOYZ, which is how I think most people pronounce it—it's certainly the way I've heard most people pronouce it.

The problem is that it isn't 100% clear how Du Bois pronounced his name. According to this book's "Note on Pronunciation", Du Bois said it was pronounced "Due Boys". According to this book, cited in your Yahoo link above, Du Boys said it was pronounced "Due Boyss".

Frankly, I would continue to go with the most common English pronunciation—"Due Boys"—over the way Du Bois may or may not have pronounced the name. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:45, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

The two sources are in no way equivalent. One source is David Levering Lewis, directly quoting Du Bois himself:

“The pronunciation of my name is Due Boyss, with the accent on the last syllable,” he would patiently explain to the uninformed.

The other source is Jacqueline M. Moore misquoting David Levering Lewis:

As his most recent and thorough biographer, David Levering Lewis, points out, Du Bois himself corrected people's pronunciation, writing that it was “Due Boys” with the stress on the second syllable.

As is evident from the actual quote from David Levering Lewis's book, he pointed out no such thing.

Thus, it is 100 % clear how Du Bois pronounced his name. I will edit the article accordingly. Libhye (talk) 07:34, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

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"Slave mistresses" offensive and inaccurate label.

The entry about DuBois's paternal great-grandfather includes an offensive and inaccurate line about him fathering children with "slave mistresses." "Mistresses" implies that their relationships were consensual, which is impossible when the white man owns the slaves. These slave women were forced to have sexual relations with their master. Please remove "slave mistresses" and replace it with "slaves." Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:8A49:3F00:29E9:AC16:C718:5E08 (talk) 03:43, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your message. I don't believe the phrase "slave mistress" or "slave mistresses" implies consent—the way slavery was practiced in most of the Americas, the notion of a slave providing or withholding sexual consent is an absurd notion. Nevertheless, I changed it to "slave women" to avoid any confusion on the subject. Thanks again. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 05:27, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

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Northern Arizona University building

In the Honors section, it says the du Bois Center at Northern Arizona University (NAU) is named after him. I believe this is incorrect. It was named after Alan Van Fleet du Bois, who created a scholarship at the university. I live in Flagstaff and attended NAU. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cermus (talk • contribs) 00:17, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Cermus, and thank you for pointing out that error. NAU's du Bois Center was so named in honor of philanthropist Alan Van Fleet du Bois. I've removed the incorrect sentence from the article. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 02:03, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2018

In this part of the article it says: "Du Bois himself also made this observation in an interview published in in November 1965.", which can't possibly be true because Du Bois was dead in 1965. It should say 1963. Dalovato (talk) 21:23, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done The interview was conducted in early 1963 but, as our article says, it was "published in The Atlantic Monthly in November 1965" (emphasis added). — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:21, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Add to Bibliography

• Hamilton Beck: "W.E.B. Du Bois as a Study Abroad Student in Germany, 1892-1894" in: Frontiers. The Interdisciplinary Journal of Study Abroad. Vol. 2, Nr. 1, Fall 1996, pp. 45-63. ISBN 1085-4568

• Hamilton Beck: "Censoring Your Ally: W. E. B. Du Bois in the German Democratic Republic," in: Crosscurrents. African Americans, Africa, and Germany in the Modern World. Ed. David McBride, Leroy Hopkins, and C. Aisha Blackshire-Belay. Camden House, 1998. pp. 197-232. ISBN 13: 978-1571130983

Hamilton beck (talk) 08:45, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion, Hamilton beck. We'll see what other editors have to say, but my opinion is that in the interest of brevity, journal articles and chapters about Du Bois should probably not be included in the article's "Further reading" section. (There is currently one chapter, by Martin Bulmer, about The Philadelphia Negro, and it probably ought to be removed.) There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of articles and chapters and we're trying to be a general purpose encyclopedia. See WP:FURTHER and WP:Further reading for more information. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 02:27, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Du Bois as a "democratic socialist"

I'm concerned about recent attempts to use garbagy sources to add this article to a category of democratic socialists.

I'll be blunt. This is a featured article, and an article at Huffington Post won't cut it as a source. Why doesn't a real biography of Du Bois refer to him as a democratic socialist. My own view is that it's because that's today's fashionable substitute for "left liberal", now that older phrases like liberal and progressive have been tarnished.

Du Bois was a socialist. He was a communist. I have yet to see any credible source written before the 2010s that describes him as a democratic socialist. Is that because I've been reading the wrong sources or because today's democratic socialists want to claim him as a philosophical forebear? Du Bois was known for being verbose and widely published. (See W. E. B. Du Bois#Selected works for a small selection of his published works. A small portion of his unpublished papers is available online here.) Why did he never refer to himself as a democratic socialist?

Regardless of the reasons, please find reliable sources worthy of a featured article that describe Du Bois as a democratic socialist, or it will be removed. Yet again. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:08, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

This 2007 biography does.[2]

This snippet seems to: "W. E. B. Du Bois: Negro Leader in a Time of Crisis - Page 202[3] But a visit to London the same year suggested that the Socialist movement, carrying on with imperialism "from sheer momentum," had not yet learned that Asia, Africa, and the Balkans needed democratic socialism as much as Great Britain. Doug Weller talk 05:41, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't surprise me (a) that the book was written in 2007, barely before the 2010s, and (b) only five pages in a 281-page volume use the phrase "democratic socialism" or "democratic socialist". Sure, maybe if you squint real hard, Du Bois was a democrat and a socialist, and that makes him a democratic socialist. Why don't any of the standard biographies of Du Bois or any of the histories of socialism (including our own article about democratic socialism) describe Du Bois as a democratic socialist? Maybe because it's as meaningless exercise as asking what Abraham Lincoln thought about gay rights? — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 22:25, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Also pointing out that the HuffPost article is by historian Lawrence S. Wittner so is clearly a reliable source. Doug Weller talk 05:48, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm not questioning whether it's a reliable source. I'm saying it's not a good enough source for a featured article. As WP:Identifying reliable sources makes clear, "When available, academic and peer-reviewed publications, scholarly monographs, and textbooks are usually the most reliable sources.... Reliable non-academic sources may also be used in articles about scholarly issues, particularly material from high-quality mainstream publications. Deciding which sources are appropriate depends on context." Considering the wealth of academic sources and non-academic sources from high-quality mainstream publications about Du Bois, why would we use something from the Huffington Post? — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 22:25, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Among scholarly authors and Du Bois scholars, I can find only one, Reiland Rabaka, who makes of point of frequently describing Du Bois as a democratic socialist and his politics as democratic socialism; other co-occurences of his name with the phrase all seem to be of people quoting or citing Rabaka. However, at one point he cites four other authors in support of this claim, going back to 1986. If people around here can look up those sources and find them strong, that might be enough to support use of the phrase in §Socialism.

It might be more promising, though, to cite some of Doug Weller's sources to add Du Bois to Democratic_socialism#Forerunners_and_formative_influences. Also, has there been discussion of adding a §Legacy section to this biography? There's certainly enough discussion in biographies and academic histories to go into further depth on the reforms in sociology and anthropology he's credited with introducing, and then we could add a bit of information on the later social movements, including democratic socialism as well as the Black Power movement and others. FourViolas (talk) 23:06, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2018

He also went to Stuyvesant High School. SiezeDeath (talk) 22:21, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:29, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Request to replace .jpg signature with new .svg version

I just created and uploaded a new signature of W.E.B. Du Bois from a 1895 letter in .svg vector format. The wikipedia file info For some reason, the black signature displays on a black background on the media viewer page, but it should display correctly on the main page. This is a much better resource than the .jpg version since the signature can scale properly. IronShikra (talk) 02:39, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello IronShikra. I tried replacing the current signature with the new version you uploaded, but the signature was very hard to see -- it looked like it was in gray letters against a black background. I know almost nothing about manipulating images, but perhaps somebody at Commons can help fix the colors. You may want to start at Commons:Graphic Lab. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:55, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Malik Shabazz I think I finally fixed the issue. The .svg vector file along with the automatically generated .pngs can be found at IronShikra (talk) 14:42, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi IronShikra. Nice work! I replaced the signature in the infobox as you requested. It looks much nicer. Thank you very much. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:09, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2019

w.e.b. du bois loved little kids and loved big white wemon Jackryan1110 (talk) 16:28, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Roadguy2 (talk) 16:39, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

W. E. B. Du Bois-Stoddard

Perhaps this merits a mention? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

References

Du Bois and Bahai Faith -- please help

I want to make reference to Du Bois's association to the Bahai Faith his first wife Nina was a Bahai and he met with Abdul Baha the then leader of the movement..I'm not sure how to frame it or where but it adds to the intellectual complexity of Du Bois. "Du Bois himself also became deeply involved in Bahá’í community life by keeping a small circle of black Bahá’í friends, speaking at Bahá’í schools, and attending Bahá’í events. According to long-time friend and active African American Bahá’í Louis Gregory, Du Bois lectured at Green Acre Bahá’í school sometime prior to 1937. Gregory also mentioned the “joyous” news that Nina had become a Bahá’í in his letter to the religion’s elected administrative body." DOI:10.1386/bsr.17.3_1 Any suggestions welcome.

Skinnytony1 (talk) 10:22, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2020

Please list dates of births and deaths of his children and first male born after Burghardt’s death, Arthur Edward McFarlane, II.

Burghardt Gomer Du Bois October 2, 1897 - 1899

Nina Yolande Du Bois October 21, 1900 - 1961 Teresa McFarlane (talk) 00:51, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Please tell me how the great grandson, my husband, can have edit rights. Thanks

To reply to the (just) above question, all they need to do is create an account Cheers, - FlightTime (open channel) 01:04, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 17:34, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2020

DUring middle school he continued his passion for art and continued it on throughout high school and even college. 2600:1700:94A0:DE10:4D26:560B:2FFE:919E (talk) 01:42, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 03:48, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps something about his PhD thesis?

Du Bois was according to the article the first African American to get a PhD from Harvard. The article mentions the title (Suppression of the African Slave Trade in the United States of America: 1638–1871) and has a photo, but there is not even a line about what his thesis (i.e. argument) actually is. A single sentence would do.LastDodo (talk) 16:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Son's death

i guess i'm a new user and can't edit the page, but his son died in Atlanta because white doctors refused to see black patients. citation is ibram xendo's intro to the 2018 edition of Souls of black folk — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wallybenjamin420 (talk • contribs) 21:06, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Antisemitism?

I came upon this editorial in the Jewish Daily Forward (a relatively progressive Jewish publication) that mentions, as an aside, that DuBois disliked Jews.

Looking up on Google to find verification I came across this scholarly article, which is a potential source but is behind a paywall. There are also some articles flatly denying he was anti-Semitic, but most of them seem to have an axe to grind (in particular, a few are from pro-Nation of Islam sources). So I’d be more inclined to view the affirmative argument as more credible. The fact that he disliked religion as much as he did makes it seem likely (if you believe organized religions are totally evil then it’s not that far of a leap to blaming Jews for essentially originating them, at least the ones Westerners are most familiar with). 97.116.88.75 (talk) 03:42, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

There is a relevant discussion in our article on Du Bois' 1903 book The Souls of Black Folk, which includes statements that were denounced as antisemitic. Du Bois changed the wording in his 1958 edition. This academic article (first three paragraphs outside a paywall) says that Du Bois had antisemitic attitudes early in his career, but that he later made strong denunciations of antisemitism. A Google search shows that this issue is widely discussed, so we should mention it. We should at least mention the claim that Du Bois was antisemitic and that this has been rejected by several authors. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:11, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2020

Change "Born in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, Du Bois grew up in a relatively tolerant and integrated community, and after completing graduate work at the University of Berlin and Harvard, where he was the first African American to earn a doctorate, he became a professor of history, sociology and economics at Atlanta University. Du Bois was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) in 1909."

to

"Du Bois was born in Great Barrington, Massachusetts. After completing graduate work at the University of Berlin and Harvard, where he was the first African American to earn a doctorate, he became a professor of history, sociology and economics at Atlanta University. Du Bois was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) in 1909."

Reasoning: This line: "Du Bois grew up in a relatively tolerant and integrated community" is not backed by any evidence. It seems this line could serve the purpose of diminishing credit given to De Boid 73.39.23.103 (talk) 20:42, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Reason why not — this line is (apparently) directly lifted from the "About the Author" page of DuBois' autobiographical book, The Souls of Black Folk, so is granted some authority in describing the author's life. (https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Souls_of_Black_Folk/OSkhDgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Du%20Bois%20grew%20up%20in%20a%20tolerant%20and%20integrated%20community) Lindenfall (talk) 23:38, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2020

changing the wording from "Blacks" to "POC" or "People of Color" in order to avoid offensive wording. SOLOSOD (talk) 03:42, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: The Manual of Style doesn't regard "Blacks" as offensive (and in this article in particular it would probably be historically appropriate); see for example Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch § Vulgarities, obscenities, and profanities or the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters § Proposed update to MOSCAPS regarding racial terms. There's also a Wikipedia guideline Wikipedia:Offensive material. If you think that Wikipedia should treat "Blacks" as offensive for writing style purposes, you'd want to start at the policy level (by attempting to achieve consensus for such a change on the talk pages of the policies) --‿Ꞅtruthious 𝔹andersnatch ͡ |℡| 04:44, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

While I cannot speak for either blacks specifically or people of color generally, I believe many in the black community would find the excising of tthe term black itself to be offensive & perhaps censorship, including Du Bois himself. Please see Black Power movement & Black Lives Matter. Peaceray (talk) 06:39, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2021

2600:6C5A:4A7F:ABCC:E96D:3AFE:EA8E:5797 (talk) 17:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

y

No edit requested. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:52, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2021

Citation 81 (https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/flashbks/black/mcgillbh.htm) is a dead link, replace with https://web.archive.org/web/20201210101232/https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/flashbks/black/mcgillbh.htm ? NKulp (talk) 21:06, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

 Done I kept the original link, however I added the dead link, as well as adding the date the website was archived, and set the link status to dead. GameTriangle (talk) 22:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Misleading picture

The photo of the Congregational Church in Great Barrington, Massachusetts shows the present church, said to have been built in 1883. If that's correct, Du Bois can't have attended it as a child and the picture, however beautiful, doesn't belong in the article. At the very least, the caption should make clear that this building is a newer one. 151.177.57.31 (talk) 00:28, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

The present structure was built in 1882 and dedicated in September, 1883, at which time Du Bois would have been 14-15 years old. That pretty neatly lands him in the camp of child congregants. WhampoaSamovar (talk) 15:27, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

W.E Dubois is Not Ghanaian

There is no evidence to suggest that W.E Dubois is from Ghana. He only died in Ghana. That does not make him Ghanaian. He is an African-America. His mother was African-American and so was his father. Sorry, but this is revisionist history and a disrespect to actual Black American History. MeiChan01 (talk) 11:41, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 November 2021

There is no substantial evidence that W.E.B Dubois is Ghanaian. Both of his parents are from and born in the United States. W.E.B Dubois died in Ghana that does not mean he is from there. MeiChan01 (talk) 11:55, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

As the article states, and I quote "In October 1961, at the age of 93, Du Bois and his wife traveled to Ghana to take up residence and commence work on the encyclopedia.[315] In early 1963, the United States refused to renew his passport, so he made the symbolic gesture of becoming a citizen of Ghana.[316] He had, at various times in his life, both American and Ghanaian citizenship. --Jayron32 12:06, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

WEB Dubois Is not Ghanaian

This is a lie and need to be changed. This is disrespectful to African Americans who history African immigrants is trying to change. 2601:14F:8300:E50:8D70:AF5F:1F3C:7721 (talk) 12:38, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

The statement has a source. It is cited to David Levering Lewis's Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of DuBois, W. E. B. Du Bois: Biography of a Race, 1868–1919, page 712. Lewis is not an African immigrant, and he is not lying. He's a well-respected historian, and unless you have evidence that he is lying, you should produce it. You can't just level accusations like this without proof. --Jayron32 13:36, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. There is no source that says he is Ghanaian at all. Both of his parents are Black American. MeiChan01 (talk) 13:51, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

No, there is a source. I just cited it for you. He became a Ghanaian citizen in 1963. This article is not about his parents, it is about DuBois, who was an American citizen at birth, and a Ghanaian citizen by naturalization as of 1963. --Jayron32 14:11, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

W.E.B Dubois Isn’t Ghanaian Part 2

Just because someone moved to the country and denounced their citizenship doesn’t mean they are that. He is not Ghanaian he is African American. Example: Just because someone moves to China does not make them Chinese. Even if they became a citizen in that country. That is not their ethnic group. Again. Stop revising Black American history and historical figures it’s giving White Supremacist. It’s giving ethnocide, and it’s giving colonization right now. Also who ever wrote that please learn the difference between race, ethnicity and nationality. Tina Turner’s page needs to be changed as well. She’s not Swiss, she just nationally Swiss due to renouncing her citizenship. But if that person was raised and born in said country that is what they are ethnically. I won’t be the first here considering black American groups have caught wind of this. If it’s changed to Ethnically American and Nationally Ghanaian. 2601:40B:8400:AD10:B9A6:3828:509B:A906 (talk) 22:34, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Please see Here for Wikipedia conventions for the opening paragraph of biographical articles. The mentioning of American and Ghanaian is not an indication of ethnicity. As noted there, this is "the country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident" He was a citizen and permanent resident of both The United States of America and Ghana, so both are mentioned in the lead. You'll also notice that "ethnicity" is not discussed. Just citizenship. As it states in the guidance page I linked to you "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead". He is American and Ghanaian by citizenship and that is why the lead mentions both. You've invented this weird scenario where this is done for nefarious reasons. Please understand it was not. It was done because it is true. He really was a Ghanaian citizen. No one lied about that. It really happened. --Jayron32 13:00, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

I do agree that it isn't necessary to include "Ghanaian" in the introduction as he is primarily notable for his activities in the United States, rather than in Ghana. Sources such as Encyclopedia Brittanica don't describe him as a Ghanaian. Jaqoc (talk) 11:47, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

I have moved mention of his Ghanaian citizenship to the infobox Jaqoc (talk) 20:28, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

WEB Dubois wasn the first African American attain a PhD in the US

I’m the intro of the article it claims that he was the first AA to get a doctoral degree, his thesis is dated 1896, yet Edward A Bouchet received a PhD in physics from Yale in 1876, 20 years earlier. 67.194.230.225 (talk) 00:04, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2022

You MUST add to the bibliography the award winning book by Aldon Morris THE SCHOLAR DENIED (a biography of Du Bois) 2601:246:1:A750:7544:77B0:4F6D:B828 (talk) 14:10, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please provide sourcing to show that this book is WP:DUE for inclusion. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:26, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2022

I have a simple grammatical correction: In Section 2.3 "hung" should be replaced with "hanged" Thanks Thing69 (talk) 16:33, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

 Done Peaceray (talk) 17:01, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2022 (2)

In the World War I section, "of the soldiers were hung..." should be "of the soldiers were hanged" Thing69 (talk) 16:42, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

 Done Peaceray (talk) 17:01, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

How to pronounce last name

According to the French, "Du Bois" is pronounced either as 'dew boy' or 'dew bwah.'

And though W.E.B. supposedly stated the correct pronunciation to be "dew boyss" (the double "s" indicates a sibilant sound and not the harsh 'z' sound); when he actually wrote it in a notation, he states the "u" as in "you" and the "oi" as in "boy."

He makes absolutely no mention as to how the "s" is to be pronounced. To me, that makes the "s" silent and the correct pronunciation to be the French way.

Especially since the name is of French origin anyway.

Thoughts ? 2600:8800:204:C400:438:C8C5:F0B5:680D (talk) 03:30, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

It is pronounced like "dew doys." His stepson David Graham Du Bois was clear on the point. Perm Dude (talk) 22:34, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"Commemorating W.E.B. Du Bois’s In Battle for Peace"

New source – American Communist History has a special issue "Commemorating W.E.B. Du Bois’s In Battle for Peace": https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/rach20/21/3-4 czar 07:38, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Ghanaian-American

When talking about Americans born in other countries we put there country of origin first, it should be Ghanaian American, not American Ghanaian. 2603:7000:3B40:B500:9D63:A879:1714:7772 (talk) 16:07, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@2603:7000:3B40:B500:9D63:A879:1714:7772 Du Bois was born in the United States and became a Ghanaian citizen later in life. Hence, he was American-Ghanaian. Epicneter (talk) 01:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Epicneter: Gain consensus for this addition and cease the slow edit war. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:35, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

W.E.B. Du Bois American sociologist and social reformer; the information is out in the open, he was of Haitian descent, it's not mentioned

W.E.B. Du Bois American sociologist and social reformer, was of Haitian descent, the information is available and omitted GuyBernardLalanne (talk) 14:25, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

The fact that his father was born in Haiti and emigrated to the US is clearly mentioned in the article. PianoDan (talk) 17:04, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2023

There are at least two references to the University of Berlin. This should be changed to Friedrich Wilhelm University, in Berlin (today Humboldt University). There is more than one university in Berlin. The links point correctly to Humboldt University, and can provide more background. 79.252.197.124 (talk) 19:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Jayron32 19:06, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2023

Change: Another important African-American leader of the 1920s was Marcus Garvey, promoter of the Back-to-Africa movement and founder of the Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA).

To: Another important Pan African leader of the 1920s was Marcus Garvey, promoter of the Back-to-Africa movement and founder of the Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA).

(Marcus Garvey was an activist from Jamaica in the Caribbean, not African American.) 195.94.45.94 (talk) 17:06, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

 Done. I've taken the liberty of rewriting it in a different way, but still fixed the error claiming Garvey was African American, to more clearly state that he was Jamaican, which matches the information in his article. I also tightened up the language a bit as well. Does this work for you? --Jayron32 17:13, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2023

The article cites multiple works by David Levering Lewis, but the shortened versions of the footnotes only say "Lewis pg #" so it's hard to tell what comes from what. I request that the shortened versions of the footnotes be amended to include a shortened version of their respective titles as well as the author name. 45.37.107.202 (talk) 22:45, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Hmm. It's a good idea, but at this point, I don't know how I'd identify which quotes are from which sources. PianoDan (talk) 23:11, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Not done for now per PianoDan, while a good idea this request is too vague to be immediately actionable. Marking as answered, feel free to reopen if there is further detail about which source is which. GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:25, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

All the footnotes that say "Lewis pp. xx" are referring to the 2009 single-volume edition of W. E. B. Du Bois: A Biography. I added a note to the "Footnotes" section to clarify. When the article was completely re-written in 2011, that 2009 Lewis was the only work by Lewis mentioned in the article. I guess there are more now. Noleander (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Dubois is also a Philosopher

Autobiography of Dubois 1960s

By his own admission one of the subjects he took and completed was philosophy. 2603:8081:5000:1E66:2D03:DFDB:17F5:86AE (talk) 13:16, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Disavowal of the Talented Tenth concept

Later in his life (1948 to be exact) Du Bois revised his belief in the "Talented Tenth" instead to be a more wide-spanning "Guiding Hundreth" focused not on a Black Elite but instead Black unity with other minorities. The Talented Tenth as a concept emerged before his ideology was fully developed (he didn't become a communist until after the Russian Revolution), so it should probably be mentioned that his stance on the Talented Tenth concept drastically shifted in a more egalitarian socialist direction. Tom Nook himself (talk) 04:14, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Dating

If Du Bois was born in 1868, wouldn't all black people be free? 2601:249:1900:C3C0:2EFF:248C:9250:1D2 (talk) 11:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2024

William Henry Dorsey is mentioned as collecting articles from the 18th century, change 18th century to 19th century. 172.97.149.228 (talk) 04:59, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Charliehdb (talk) 12:21, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done I corrected 18th→19th as per WP:OBVIOUS. Since William Henry Dorsey was born in 1837, he could not have been collecting in the 18th century. Peaceray (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2024 (UTC)