Talk:Trump/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about Trump. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Requested move 29 July 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. In addition to the other oppose and support arguments, I note that Massviews is newly introduced as TheSunIsAStar147147 noted, but Yaksar noted the dab page uses Trump (president), which does not "win" the massviews -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:20, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Trump → Trump (disambiguation) – i am for this redirecting to Donald Trump. not many people look for trump as in card games, and if you go to massviews, change the source to wikilinks, change the date range to 2017-01-01 - 2020-07-27, and paste https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Trump in the URL box, then the data shows that the most visited pages (besides the protection policy) are Family of Donald Trump, The Trump Organization, and Trump family, all of which are about Donald Trump, and the massviews of the pages listed that are about Donald Trump add up to 13 million. That is a huge number, and the start of the dab page also says Trump most commonly refers to Donald Trump (born 1946), the 45th president of the United States. which adds proof that this dab page does nothing but waste the time of the 13 million people all expecting to get redirected to Donald Trump by simply typing Trump in the search box. If this were to be a redirect to Donald Trump, that would make everything easier. TheSunIsAStar147147 (talk) 00:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Support as nominator. TheSunIsAStar147147 (talk) 01:50, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Support per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. A reader typing in "Trump" into the search box is almost certainly looking for the article on the president. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:45, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose – per the result of the previous RM, and the one before that, and the one before that. There simply isn't one article by this name that is more relevant than all the other articles put together, especially when you include long-term significance or parts of the world that aren't the United States. – bradv🍁 02:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
- comment the USA has the biggest traffic for the english wikipedia and also Donald Trump is known by a LOT of people outside of USA. TheSunIsAStar147147 (talk) 02:42, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
  - the USA has the biggest traffic for the english wikipedia. If that was relevant then we'd use American English for everything, always make American meanings primary and always name our articles in American English. The fact we don't should indicate to you that it's not relevant. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:20, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
    - Yes, WP:ENGVAR would have been deleted years ago if that was the case.--69.157.254.92 (talk) 16:14, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Support he's obviously the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Ortizesp (talk) 04:04, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose – Because nothing has changed since last year. See page views graph (be sure to click logarithmic scale) and see my !vote from last year, except really less then two percent of the people looking for the president's page come here first. The page as it is loads fast, so they are just one quick click away from the desired page. If the move and redirect is approved, the hundreds who come here every week looking for something other than presidential will have to wait for the very long page to load before they can see the link to this page if it is there, because it is not there now. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 05:47, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose. Nothing has changed since the last RM. This is a common English word. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose. This is a common English word. —Eyer (If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message to let me know.) 12:35, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose as several times before. This fascination with one guy will pass; no need for a primarytopic grab at this politically charged time. Dicklyon (talk) 16:22, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose yet again. Nothing's changed since last time. O.N.R. ^(talk) 22:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose again per before. Steel1943 (talk) 00:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose and recommending SNOW close for all the reasons discussed above. No need to consume time for a discussion that is deemed to fail. ««« SOME GADGET GEEK »»» (talk) 19:34, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
Support but keep Trump as a redirect to the disambiguation 🌸 1.Ayana 🌸 (talk) 22:20, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
- comment - that's not the correct style. there should be a (disambiguation) at the end of the title of the dab page if and only if there is a primary topic, as in WP:MALPLACED. TheSunIsAStar147147 (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Oppose per the above and impose a moratorium on move requests. ~~Two move discussions in the same month is just ridiculous.~~ St Anselm (talk) 01:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

While I do agree that this shouldn’t be move the last request was in July 2019 not this July meaning I’m not sure the moratorium is necessary.--69.157.254.92 (talk) 01:22, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Oops - I misread that. My bad. St Anselm (talk) 02:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes I don't think a moratorium is needed given as noted the last failed RM was over a year ago. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:28, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

@StAnselm: since you were originally wrong when you said that the last discussion was in the same month as this one when it actually was more than a year ago, do you still want a moratorium? TheSunIsAStar147147 (talk) 18:52, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I do (which is why I didn't strike it). If we haven't moved it by now we never will, and no new arguments are being presented. St Anselm (talk) 19:15, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

"no new arguments" what about the massviews? it wasn't mentioned on any older move discussion on this talk page before. TheSunIsAStar147147 (talk) 19:46, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Oppose. Nothing has changed at all. The card-games term still has greater significance in the long term, while Donald Trump remains exactly as significant as last time. Of course, consensus can change, but I don't think that's likely here and would support a moratorium maybe even longer than a year, because it's a bit of a time sink having to continually reargue this one. — Amakuru (talk) 08:32, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Oppose, too common word. Thatcher is also correctly a disambiguation page. If consensus hasn't changed from last year, I recommend waiting at least two years before renominating. —Kusma (t·c) 12:09, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
As someone in England I opposed the RM (in January) to make Margaret primary but although I weakly opposed this RM last year I'm not sure today though I probably still lean oppose. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Support. Common sense. Ergo Sum 23:48, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Oppose per Richard-of-Earth's analysis. —C.Fred (talk) 17:42, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Oppose Points to whoever created the Trump (president) redirect. From that, we can see that yes, it is true the majority of readers at this page are looking for Donald Trump. But it is not the sort of overwhelming majority we would want to determine a person with a last name shared by a commonly used subject is the clear primary for that subject.--Yaksar (let's chat) 23:33, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Support. I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that Donald Trump fails to meet both the criteria for determining a primary topic, no matter how unpopular he may be. -- Calidum 04:10, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- You don't think he's "trumped" by the common usage of the word?! He's no more primary than Thatcher, Bush, Carter, Blair, Johnson, Kennedy or any other notable world leader with a common surname or a surname that also means something else. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:32, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Trump (dog)72.79.45.246 (talk) 21:37, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Indeed it should. Added. Thank you for the suggestion! —Kusma (t·c) 21:56, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

I think that Trump should include a mention of Trump (dog).72.79.45.246 (talk) 21:37, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

"There is a reason for this"

Really? Think you could, oh, I don't know - hmm, maybe explain the reason? I realize that's a ballsy request on my part; I mean, you were kind enough to fix it - you'd think I'd express a little gratitude, right? I'm not reverting, mind you. The old Joe would have done that, but the new Joe takes the insanity right to the talk page. I won't fix anything I can waste time discussing. Joefromrandb (talk) 14:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

It looks like "Trump (president)" is being used as a gauge (with imperfect control) to see how many people arrive at the disambiguation page looking for "Donald Trump" similar to how "Lincoln (president)" is used on Lincoln. (Viewing figures will then be used as nauseum to try and vacate the disambiguation page for a redirect.) –xeno^talk 15:32, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Ah. "Trump" should redirect to "Donald Trump" as clearly as the sky is blue. While it beggars belief that there's even discussion about it, it is indeed "imperfect control", and I don't see how it's a fair tactic. Joefromrandb (talk) 16:23, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

So how about we change the note to say "This link is to the redirect so statistics can be kept on how people are finding the article." or something like that. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 21:40, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I certainly think that would help avoid a degree of would-be confusion as far as editing goes. I have no intention of "fixing" it again, but I'm not convinced that the threshold for IAR is met in this case, as I agree with Xeno's comment about imperfect control. It will be no doubt offered as a criterion in the next move request. Even though I'm all in favor of it being moved, others are obviously of a different mind; I wouldn't want anyone's opinion to be swayed by a datum that's (in all probability unintentionally) imperfect. Joefromrandb (talk) 00:27, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

OK, I added it. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 08:14, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

This has now been changed because there is a tool page that graphically shows Wikipedia clickstream dump at https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Trump . Donald Trump no longer redirects to Trump (president). That redirect could now be deleted. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 16:10, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Proposed automatic redirect to Donald Trump

Nobody types "Trump" in the search bar looking for information on 'trump cards' in card games.

I suggest this page should redirect to Donald Trump. Visitors who aren't looking for the US president will have the possibility of going back to this page. Leontrooper (talk) 12:09, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

@Leontrooper Feel free to read previous requested move discussions in 2010 (suggested Trump (card games) as the WP:primary topic), 2016, 2017 (×2), 2018, 2019 and 2020 on this talk page (and other informal discussions—almost this entire page is on primary-topic debate). Particuarly if you have a novel argument or new page-usage data, you can follow the process at WP:RM (by flagging it there and starting a formal move discussion here). Llew Mawr (talk) 13:37, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

@Leontrooper In short, the reason Donald Trump has so far always failed to be made the primary topic is that Trump (card games) has been judged to have more "long-term significance...substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term" (the first criterion at WP:PTOPIC), but Donald Trump wasn't judged to have "otherwelmingly higher usage" than all other entries combined (second criterion). Llew Mawr (talk) 13:45, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2022

Trupet — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:4041:5113:A00:F9F0:203F:7995:A217 (talk) 02:02, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

It is in Trump#Other uses. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 04:54, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Trump Softballs

One of the most popular brands of softball is called “Trump”, with the name featured prominently on the ball’s design. See [1]. I recently participated in a community softball event where they used Trump balls, and did a double take when I saw the name. Apparently this brand is _not_ owned by Donald Trump or named after him, but I’m sure a lot of people don’t know that.

I wonder if Trump softballs are notable enough to have their own article that would be linked from here? It seems like they qualify (being one of the top brands in the market). However, finding sources may prove difficult because any web searches for this topic will inevitably turn up a lot of irrelevant articles about Donald Trump receiving “softball” questions from journalists. It’s a rather unfortunate naming coincidence. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:121B (talk) 02:27, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

The company that makes the line, BSN Sports, does not have an article, so the line of baseballs is not likely to be notable enough. Per Wikipedia:Disambiguation dos and don'ts we do not include items without an article (i.e. a blue link). Richard-of-Earth (talk) 04:33, 19 November 2022 (UTC)