Talk:Tropical Storm Conson (2021)

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Text and/or other creative content from 2021 Pacific typhoon season was copied or moved into Tropical Storm Conson (2021). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Move Page

Can the Year be deleted? because I think it's disastrous and his property damage reached 1billion and I think it will retire. Daniel boxs (talk) 05:32, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Daniel boxs: WP:CRYSTAL 🐔dat (talk) 11:26, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can the year be deleted now? because one of their names is Retired and I think this is the worst damage for the year 2021 pacific typhoon season. Daniel boxs (talk) 05:00, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move the Page now! Daniel boxs (talk) 05:01, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Daniel boxs: Your controversial move has been reverted. Do not move the page back without consensus. Chlod (say hi!) 21:14, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical Storm Conson (2021) -> Tropical Storm Conson

Requested move 8 September 2024

It has been proposed in this section that Tropical Storm Conson (2021) be renamed and moved to Tropical Storm Conson.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Links: current log • target log • direct move

Tropical Storm Conson (2021) → Tropical Storm Conson – Can this page be moved to just Tropical Storm Conson? As Daniel boxs stated above, the name was retired after the 2021 Pacific typhoon season. While there was a more notable iteration of Conson last 2010, it was a typhoon. This is the only page that is named "Tropical Storm Conson"— the 2004 and 2010 iterations were typhoons, and the 2016 iteration redirects you to the 2016 typhoon page, so it's a little distinctive compared to the previous Conson iterations. Bugnawfang (talk) 08:28, 8 September 2024 (UTC) Bugnawfang (talk) 08:32, 8 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Bobby Cohn (talk) 12:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose: It seems like some of the disambiguation pages for Conson would be requested to remove as "(2021)" per Daniel boxs stated? So, the answer is not recommended to move as primary topic. Unlike those names were retired, this would be retained as disambiguation parentheses and should not be used as primary topic (i.e. Typhoon Haikui (2023), Tropical Storm Kompasu (2021) & Typhoon Vongfong (2020)); unless, there is one or main topic can differentiate the storms without any disambiguation (i.e. Tropical Storm Megi). Icarus58 (talk) 00:16, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. You can say the same thing for Tropical Storm Ma-on, which doesn't have the "(2022)" even though it only caused seven deaths and ~$40 million worth of damage. Also, the disambig page for Conson's other incarnations will still be "List of storms named Conson."

For Haikui 2023 and Vongfong 2020's cases, their earlier incarnations were clearly worse than the names where they're officially delisted, so they were the exceptions. What I also meant by "this is the only page named 'Tropical Storm Conson'", I meant that this is the only "Tropical Storm Conson" that has a dedicated wiki page to it. The 2016 incarnation was a redirect to 2016 Pacific typhoon season. Bugnawfang (talk) 11:23, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bugnawfang, since only two tropical storms have named "Conson" that formed last 2016 and 2021 respectively. Hence, it is not advisable or recommended to move the page as main article for "Tropical Storm Conson". So, there is no consensus regarding to move as alternative redirect. Icarus58 (talk) 14:01, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean? Actually, you can say that thing to Tropical Storm Ma-on (2016) as well. Click the 2016 storm page, it's also another redirect to "2016 Pacific typhoon season". Yet "Tropical Storm Ma-on (2022)" redirects you to "Tropical Storm Ma-on" (no year indicator).

Unlike the other Conson tropical storm in 2016, this 2021 incarnation of TS Conson did some damage. It's more of the storm being a Wikipedia:PRIMARYRED because there are no other storms named "Tropical Storm Conson" that have a separate page that details its met. history, preparations, impact, etc.

Pardon me if my jargon is too complicated to understand. I want to be clear and concise that "Tropical Storm Conson (2021)" should be moved to "Tropical Storm Conson" because it's the only "Tropical Storm Conson" that has actual details and did some damage, hence it doesn't need a year indicator. The 2004 and 2010 usages were typhoons; if this 2021 storm was a typhoon (i.e. recognized by JMA as a typhoon), then the exceptions for Vongfong 2020, Saola 2023 and Haikui 2023 apply.

We're talking about technicalities here; I hope this clears out the confusion. P.S. Click the Tropical Storm Conson (2016) link, it redirects you to 2016 Pacific typhoon season. I hope you see my point as to why I wanted to remove the year indicator in this storm. Bugnawfang (talk) 14:32, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts @Daniel boxs? Bugnawfang (talk) 14:50, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any thoughts about this move too @Vida0007? Bugnawfang (talk) 14:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The overall most notable incarnation of Conson is its 2010 one – I honestly was questioning why both Conson and Basyang were not retired by JMA and PAGASA respectively. However, in terms of Conson's iterations that reached (severe) tropical storm intensity, I think its 2021 usage was more notable than any versions of Conson that peaked below typhoon intensity (albeit both PAGASA and JTWC considered Conson 2021 as a typhoon).

Which brings me to this suggestion: sure, move this page to the Tropical Storm Conson namespace. But the article for Conson's 2010 iteration shall also be moved to Typhoon Conson. Vida0007 (talk) 15:03, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe because how int'l names retired pre-2015 didn't include storms that had a major (i.e. really major) impact on the Philippines. These names mostly go unnoticed as they don't usually appear on PAGASA's weather bulletins, and also because maybe the PH delegate just didn't send a formal request to retire names [Fengshen, Nesat, to name a few]. But since 2015, where int'l storms now appear on PAGASA's bulletins, it's now a custom to decomission both names.

I guess I could agree to your statements, as it's different from the cases of Megi (2010 vs 2016) and very much like Nock-ten's cases. But I'm curious what stance you lean on to this. Bugnawfang (talk) 14:40, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]