Talk:Statue of John Carroll

Statue of John Carroll has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 18, 2018	Good article nominee	Listed
December 6, 2018	Guild of Copy Editors	Copyedited
March 14, 2019	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
May 13, 2019	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on December 14, 2018. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that when the statue Bishop John Carroll (pictured) was unveiled in 1912, a plaster cast version was secretly used instead?
Current status: Good article

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Title?

Resolved

Thoughts on moving this article to Statue of John Carroll? @Ergo Sum: Curious what you think, especially since you're familiar with sourcing and text. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 12:59, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer: Can you explain your motivation? I'm generally inclined to think that it's preferable to use the actual name of an artwork and disambiguate if necessary rather than use a contrivance. Ergo Sum 14:57, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ergo Sum, Sure, and I generally agree, but I spot-checked a few sources and didn't really see "Bishop John Carroll" confirmed the "official" title except in the Smithsonian source. Of course, perhaps I've overlooked. See WP:NATURALDIS + the discussions at Talk:Statue of Benjamin Franklin (Stanford University), Talk:Bust of Benjamin Harrison, and Talk:Statue of Guy Lafleur show a general preference for the "Statue of XXX" format over the "subject (medium)" format. I should also note, there's an ongoing discussion here about the naming conventions for public statues. User:Ham II may also have thoughts or a better ability to explain. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:05, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I should also note, the Smithsonian source suggests "Archbishop Carroll" is another title -- not sure if this should be mentioned in the lead or not. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:06, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer: I've re-checked the sources and don't find any specific mention of the statute's name in the form of Bishop John Carroll. I wouldn't oppose your renaming of the article, although I think, given that the Smithsonian says the official name of the artwork is Bishop John Caroll, it would make more sense to name the article "Statue of Bishop John Carroll" (rather than simply "Statue of John Carroll"). However, I'd defer to the outcome of the ongoing discussion. Ergo Sum 15:46, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The proposed text about "Statue of..." being the preferred style for public statues has now been added to WP:VAMOS, but the policy doesn't cover whether it should be "...John Carroll", "...Bishop John Carroll" or "...Archbishop (John) Carroll". I wouldn't take the Smithsonian's choices as gospel; they mis-spelled the subject's name for this statue. "Bishop" seems odd given that he held a higher position and the statue is posthumous, and neither "Bishop" nor "Archbishop" appears on the pedestal, so my preference is for Statue of John Carroll. Ham II (talk) 18:33, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ham II, I agree. Thanks for contributing to this discussion. @Ergo Sum: Any opposition? If not, I'll plan to move soon, unless you'd like to beat me to the punch! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 01:11, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No opposition here. Ergo Sum 03:05, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ergo Sum,

Done I made a couple adjustments to the article following the page move, but feel free to double check. Thanks, all! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:51, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]