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Talk:Starset

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"My Demons" sources

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Live performances

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"Halo" sources

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"Carnivore" sources

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General sources

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Genre

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On Wikipedia, we need to go by what sources say about the genre. An IP keeps changing the genre to genre that have no sources present anywhere in the article. There is a detailed, and well-sourced "musical styles" section, and things like "symphonic metal" and "electronic metal" are not outright mentioned by sources. Their music may have elements of electronics or symphonies, but we need to have sources that directly state the genre themselves, per WP:OR/WP:SYNTH. The IPs have given no explanation other than they are "fixing the genre". Attempting to discuss first prior to turning to page protection. Sergecross73 msg me 21:41, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Band source

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cinematic rock

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Starset is known for being described as “cinematic rock” and while i know it’s not a recognized genre, other pages such as ice nine kills have unrecognized genres and in their case it’s “theatricore” and it just redirects to a similar link. I think “cinematic rock” should be included and redirected to another link like “theatricore” is, but whatever link it is redirected to should be either hard rock or electronic rock since they have clearly been described as both. Davatki (talk) 00:39, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cinematic rock is a genre made up by the band itself. It's not a real genre, and as such, listing it in the infobox serves no purpose to the reader. There's no context for it to make sense for them when it's placed by itself in the infobox. It's better covered in the musical styles section, which it already is. Sergecross73 msg me 01:09, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

so what’s the case with other pages that include genres like “theatricore” Davatki (talk) 02:07, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea, I haven't come across such an article, but I imagine it's a poorly written article that needs fixing, not a standard we should be working towards... Sergecross73 msg me 02:52, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Name stylization

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@Sergecross73:

On Spotify, their website, etc., the band's name is stylized as "STARSET" rather than "Starset." https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Trademarks#Indicating_stylizations says that "stylized version[s]... may include simple stylization, like capitalization changes". It's a rather obvious stylization, but shouldn't we include it for the sake of correctness/completeness? (This is an honest question—I realize there might be unwritten conventions I'm simply unaware of.) BalinKingOfMoria (talk) 20:12, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We all draw the line differently, but it's my personal stance that "stylizations" that are so basic that anyone can understand them without an explanation, don't require a mention, as they serve no purpose. Things like Kesha stylizing her name as "Ke$ha" is noteworthy, as it's a different spelling. Pointing out that Nirvana once wrote their name as "NIRVANA" on a single cover or something...doesn't really help anyone. That's my two cents. Sergecross73 msg me 20:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds fair enough. (I do think this is closer to the former example than the latter, since (according to my brief impression) it seems to be consistently applied. But it's not the end of the world, of course.) BalinKingOfMoria (talk) 21:06, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Members

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Siobhan, Zuzana, and Cory are official members as of 2023. Hpylori808 (talk) 22:37, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source? Sergecross73 msg me 23:52, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The band. Hpylori808 (talk) 02:22, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then provide it with an actual source. See WP:REFB if you need help with how to add a source. But an actual source is needed or till keep getting removed. Just saying "the band" won't cut it. Sergecross73 msg me 02:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The source is from the band directly. Hpylori808 (talk) 17:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we need to follow WP:V, so if all you got is vague hearsay, it will be removed. Sergecross73 msg me 17:59, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In response to this comment left on my talk page, we cannot use fan-shot Youtube videos or Reddit as sources per WP:USERG and WP:YOUTUBE. And you're still not adding sources when you make edits to Wikipedia. You've got to change how you're approaching this. Sergecross73 msg me 18:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://keynotemusiccollective.com/?p=7654
"Since the band is now a 7-piece as of last year..."
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/Starset
"The band had increased from four members to seven over the years with the current additions of Siobhán Cronin, Zuzana Engererova, and Cory Juba to fill in the missing pieces of cinematics and electronics" Hpylori808 (talk) 18:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
TVTropes fails WP:USERG too - in general you can't use websites that can be written/uploaded/altered/changed by anyone on a whim. Keynote Music Collective..probably works though, though it only verifies that they're part of the touring lineup. Sergecross73 msg me 18:52, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The band is "now a 7-piece as of last year" because Cory had joined the touring lineup in 2021, a year before that article was posted. I don't feel that that's a strong enough or authoritative enough statement to say for certain that the three of them are official members of the band. Yes, they're a seven-piece band—on the stage. But now, with that in mind, are any of them really part of the band other than Dustin? Ron, Brock, and Adam have contributed basically nothing to the actual albums. They're all just touring musicians, in a way. So are the other three really any different? Should they all be official band members or all labeled as touring musicians? What are your thoughts, @Sergecross73:? pillowcrow 21:59, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that was something I struggled with when writing a bunch of the Starset articles 4-5 years ago. Ron, Brock and Adam are listed as band members, but they contribute almost nothing to studio recordings most of the time. Realistically speaking, Starset is effectively a Dustin Bates a solo project. But neither the band nor most reliable sources portray it that way, so technically we really we shouldn't either... Sergecross73 msg me 18:32, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough (though personally, it's hard to feel like someone can be a member of a band and make zero studio contributions). So should we allow Siobhan, Zuzana, and Cory to enjoy the same "official member" status in the article? Admittedly this is opening up a can of something for me, because now I'm wondering how the timeline should be edited and whether there should be a section in the article that mentions how the band is set up and how the albums are recorded. pillowcrow 17:41, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say make them "touring members". Starset isn't known as some giant seven piece band like Slipknot, nor are they known for their violin-centric music with a dedicated member, like Yellowcard. This strikes me more of what bands like Smashing Pumpkins would do. They never had a dedicated trombone or accordion player, they just brought them on a tour for a fuller sound sometimes.
All that aside, the only remotely usable source presented so far only confirms they're part of touring as it is, which is the biggest factor. Sergecross73 msg me 18:12, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no longer a distinction between "current member" and "touring member". They're all simply equal members, some are just newer than others. I know the band directly and they have confirmed this multiple times on this current tour, including Dustin. Brock and Sio are married, but you're implying that one of them isn't in the band, which is not true. They all devote their entire lives to the project and to insinuate that they aren't equal members is simply inaccurate and unfair and a disservice to both the band and wikipedia education. All of them are included in all current marketing and promotions for the past 3 years. See their website or their official social media accounts. Also, all of the members are the *only* ones followed by the band's social media channels. And they all get the same awarded plaques for RIAA certifications. They all get recognized by their label as equal members as well. There is not any official source saying that the three of them are a different type of member than the first four. This really does need to be adjusted. Hpylori808 (talk) 18:29, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also the reason articles keep saying inaccurately that they're only "touring members" is because of the wiki page inaccurately stating so! That's why this needs to be updated. Hpylori808 (talk) 18:31, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We need to follow WP:V. What reliable sources support your proposed changes? Sergecross73 msg me 18:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The band's website and socials. Direct from the source. Each of them are involved on the marketing materials. They're all even on the latest t-shirt and merch available from their official stores. Also, have you been to a show in the last 3 years? Dustin said the band was complete at 7 members after Cory joined. I sent video of that too. What if I have a band member confirm it directly? This needs to be corrected so articles stop talking about them as separate entities. They are not. You incorrectly said "Starset isn't seen as some giant seven piece..." But that is 100% not the case. Again, there are multiple videos stating that the band was complete with the final 7th member added. Hpylori808 (talk) 18:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please present your sources here so people can evaluate and discuss. Sergecross73 msg me 20:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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