Jump to content

Talk:Sexually transmitted infection/Archive 4

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3Archive 4Archive 5

STD wizard

We need independent third party high quality sources for this. Otherwise looks like spam.

=== STD Wizard ===

The STD Wizard"STD Wizard""The downside of 'friends with benefits'". CNN. April 15, 2010. is a publicly available expert system for determining which screening tests, vaccinations, and evaluations are recommended, related to sexually transmitted diseases. The information included within the STD Wizard is based on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention "Sexually Transmitted Diseases Treatment Guidelines - 2010". The system has English and Spanish language interfaces.

The STD Wizard runs in a web browser. The program asks a series of questions, related to demographics, behaviors, and symptoms. There are potentially over 100 questions, but most users get asked about 20. The exact questions asked depend on the user's responses. Typical questions include:

  • Demographics - How old are you, in years?
  • Behaviors - Have you had more than one sex partner within the past six months?
  • Symptoms - Are you having a discharge from your penis or burning during urination?

Typical recommendations include:

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 20:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for moving to the talk page. I don't think it's spam. But I guess it's a matter of opinion. And, in the interests of disclosure, I wrote the STD Wizard, so I'm not the best person to decide if it's spam or not, or how to include or not include.
Here's what I can offer against it's being spam: 1) It was funded by the federal government (CDC and ATPM). Could that qualify as a third party high quality source? 2) It has a mention in the CNN article. Does that qualify as an independent source. Are more needed? To my knowledge, there are no more third party mentions at present. There are links to the wizard from various health clinics and university student health centers. 3) The wizard is no cost, and will stay that way. Does the non-commercial nature argue against being spam? 4) It seems directly related to the STD article, since the STD Wizard lets any user tell which tests they need, based on the CDC Guidelines.
The STD Wizard section was in the STD article a long time, with no objection. It seems this just arose when I edited the article to reflect that the software was updated to cover the 2010 Guidelines. I guess that triggered someone to take a look. I agree that the current section is probably too long, within the context of the whole article. What if the STD Wizard section were made shorter (perhaps really short), and there was a separate article about the STD Wizard? The separate article could include the current text, and also mention that CDC funded the development. Dagoldman (talk) 19:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
This is indisputably spam and that is not a matter of opinion. See Wikipedia:Spam. Knowledge of the STD Wizard software is not fundamental to an international understanding of STDs and therefore does not belong in this article, and that is the factor to consider. Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:56, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes we would need sources such as review articles. And even than the most this would be applicable to would be a sub page. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:02, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
This nonexistent user also agrees that we need high quality medical sources to include even a mention of it in this article. Smells like spam. Yobol (talk) 22:10, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
To Bluerasberry: WP:SPAM describes three types of spam. "These are: advertisements masquerading as articles; external link spamming; and adding references with the aim of promoting the author or the work being referenced." The STD Wizard text is not any of these. Therefore it is not "spam" by the definitions that you claim to refer to. The banner also includes the summary "Spam is the inappropriate addition of links or information to Wikipedia with the purpose of promoting an outside organization, individual or idea." The STD Wizard text might fit this more inclusive definition, but it certainly isn't "indisputable".
In any case, I agree that the STD Wizard text should not be in this article. This (and its duplicate articles) is the only reliable third-party source that I found about it. The CNN reference doesn't actually mention the Wizard; it only includes a link to the "quiz". I didn't find anything in PubMed. The sources are inadequate to justify its own article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 20:55, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Agree - not Spam per those criteria, but should not be included without notability and MEDRS. -- Scray (talk) 10:58, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
1) I wasn't aware of the "Family Practice News" independent third-party source. That makes at least two, since CNN seems a reputable source. Is that enough? How many are required by wikipedia? 2) Since the STD Wizard presents exactly the same screening logic as the CDC STD Sexually Transmitted Diseases Treatment Guidelines (but in a much more usable and understandable form), couldn't that be considered to meet the MEDRS requirement, which mentions "medical guidelines or position statements from nationally or internationally recognised expert bodies"? 3) As to what is "fundamental to an international understanding of STDs", I would suggest that there are many ways the relatively short STD article could be written, things that could be included or excluded, but that a publicly available way for people to easily determine which STD screening tests they need is a reasonable thing to briefly mention. So would it be OK to include as last paragraph of "Diagnosis" Section *** The "STD Wizard" is a publicly available expert system for determining which screening tests, vaccinations, and evaluations are recommended, related to sexually transmitted diseases. The information included within the STD Wizard is based on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention "Sexually Transmitted Diseases Treatment Guidelines - 2010" *** and put deleted three paragraphs in separate short article? Dagoldman (talk) 22:22, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Discussion of the STD Wizard does not belong in this article because discussion of this diagnostic tool is not central to an understanding of the concept of an STD. I disagree with Axl and Scray because the content meets all spam criteria - the content is an advertisement for one particular service when hundreds of diagnostics exist, and the content put an external link directly in the middle of article space, and because again it is promoting a single regional service when many international guidelines on this topic exist. There is no reason why an arbitrary instance of United States software should have precedent in this article over guidelines of international health policy organizations. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:44, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
The popular press is not a reliable source. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 17:47, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

" I wasn't aware of the "Family Practice News" independent third-party source. "

— Dagoldman
Family Practice News and its clones are essentially newspapers targeted at health care professionals. These sources are not peer reviewed. WP:RS states "When available, academic and peer-reviewed publications, scholarly monographs, and textbooks are usually the most reliable sources.... News reporting from less-established outlets is generally considered less reliable for statements of fact." WP:MEDRS gives more medicine-specific guidance. With its lack of peer review, Family Practice News lies somewhere between "Popular press" and "Newsletters" as described in WP:MEDRS. Thus its reliability as a source is limited.
In my opinion, it would be suitable to support the statement "STD Wizard is an internet-based tool to assess an individual's need for STD screening." However even if the consensus agrees with this, in my opinion this is not sufficient to include this text in this article. We would require a reliable source about sexually transmitted diseases that includes discussion of the STD Wizard.

" CNN seems a reputable source "

— Dagoldman
My problem with CNN isn't actually its reliability, although being "Popular press" does limit its reliability. My concern is that the CNN source doesn't actually mention STD Wizard at all. Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:38, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

" I disagree with Axl and Scray because the content meets all spam criteria. "

— Bluerasberry
You have not understood the meaning of WP:SPAM, despite referring to it yourself and my explanation of it. Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:42, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

STI verses STD

STI is the preferred terminology and the one used by the WHO [1] Thus I propose we move it to this "sexually transmitted infection" --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I still like the idea, but the counterarguments from the last discussion about this were substantial. We just proposed this less than a year ago. What new arguments can be made which address the past consensus which concluded that this should not be done? Blue Rasberry (talk) 04:44, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
There is a simple reason, not covered in the previous discussion, why this article should be moved to STI. If you are going to talk about STDs, then you have to talk about things like cervical cancer (because it is a disease resulting almost exclusively from sex). But if you talk about STIs, then you don't talk about cervical cancer, because it is a neoplastic process, not an infectious process. The distinction is important, and people need to understand the distinction, especially now that head and neck cancer is becoming largely a sexually transmitted disease! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.195.90.244 (talk) 07:35, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Can you share sources which support your statement? Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
I think that following current WHO guidelines (as the link is provided above)is sufficient evidence that this language needs to be changed. The Public Health Authority of Canada also uses the term STI [2]as does other well known sexual health services such as Options for Sexual Health [3]--Mfreud (talk) 19:55, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I think there is enough support to move this article.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:06, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Can we have a vote?Sheldon Kepler (talk) 01:37, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! We could have a vote if there were a reason to do so. Wikipedia operates on a consensus model, so voting is just a way to encourage conversation and reach consensus, and not a way to settle anything. We have had two votes recently - here and here. If you have a new response to the old discussion and votes, then please share. Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:46, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
There still hasn't been enough support to move the article. As Blue Rasberry shows, there's been just as much support to keep the article titled Sexually transmitted disease. And per those comments a year ago, despite some sources stating that "STI" is the preferred terminology (I take it that they mean with regard to medical sources, because "STD" is still by far the most common term among the general public), I'm still not entirely convinced. I note, however, that I'm not as passionate as I once was about the article staying under this title. Flyer22 (talk) 16:04, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Blue waffle redirects here?

If someone is looking in the Wikipedia for information about the blue waffle disease, which is a very popular hoax, they'll be redirected here and assume it is real. If you don't create an article that busts the hoax, don't make it worse by redirecting the terms to STD! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.179.156.175 (talk) 03:34, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from mfreud, Jan 11, 2012

I would like to see the title of this article changed from "Sexually Transmitted Disease" to "Sexually Transmitted Infection" as the term STD is no longer used in sexual health education due to the stigma attached to the word disease. I am not a very experienced Wikipedia user, even though I have assisted in the creation of a feature article... that was several years ago & I do not remember a lot from those editing day! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mfreud (talk • contribs) 19:46, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

STD is still used in sexual health education. See the #STI verses STD and #Requested move sections of this talk page for further information about the title history of this article. Flyer22 (talk) 19:16, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Add "Ejaculation" sections on sexual activity chart

http://www.tinynibbles.com/safesexchart which is already used as a referenced in the pathophysiology section also list risks associated with getting ejaculate on different parts of the body. This should also be included in the chart. Additionally a source needs to be found for ejaculate on the anus as well as the penis as that source does not list it. Data for female ejaculate should also be found. 62.107.105.61 (talk) 15:50, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Transmission probabilities

This is confusing. I assume that these risks are of transmission if the partner is infected with the given STD. Otherwise, statements such as "Hepatitis B 50-70%" might lead people to interpret that 50-70% of people have Hepatitis instead of there is a 50-70% of catching Hepatitis B from someone who has Hepatitis B during the given sex act. I also assume that these figures are for unprotected sex. There is still risk of getting STD even with protected sex, do we have any sources on that? I think it would benefit to be exact about what these figures mean, otherwise their meaning might be wasted. Lesion (talk) 18:11, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

I looked about a year ago for any compilation of these kinds of numbers and was unable to find anything at that time. What I would want is transmission rates for a given disease under a set of circumstances. I think that single data points exist for some diseases - like for example, rates of HIV infection for certain kinds of people in certain conditions - but I do not think that any research has compiled a comprehensive table of all that Wikipedians would want. The section is confusing and it is also incomplete. I am not sure what to do. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:08, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Just looked again at the table. The title is "Odds of transmission per unprotected sexual act with an infected person". I must be going blind. Re. your comment, I understand your concerns about this table. To gather many different sources and hammer their results into the format of this table might constitute original research even. I would personally leave the table since so much work has obviously gone into it. Hopefully a good source will become available that will fill in many of the blanks, and also lead to less dependence on comparing results of studies with perhaps completely different methodologies and confounding factors that invalidates their comparison. I would imagine the WHO would have data of this nature? Or you checked there too? Lesion (talk) 19:20, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
I only checked with Google scholar and search at a research library. I have not checked WHO. Something else really interesting - HIV does not spread easily alone, but if either partner has another infection - especially an STI but also many other infections like TB - then the rate of transmission goes up a lot. This is really significant with things like asymptomatic HPV infections correlating highly with HIV infection. I would expect that if anyone were to compile this data they would do so when discussing co-morbidity of various diseases. Since the advent of the HPV vaccine this research must be happening somewhere. Let me know if you find anything. Blue Rasberry (talk) 21:01, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
I've been involved with some formal HPV research in the past, and honestly my patience for that particular topic is exhausted for now. Suggest WHO or maybe CDC as potential sources for anyone who is interested. Lesion (talk) 12:26, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Other animals

Do STDs exist in other animals or just humans? Portillo (talk) 09:34, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

And which ones can be transmitted between humans and other species? 62.107.105.61 (talk) 21:42, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Add transmission probabilities for Mycoplasma genitalium

The article for Mycoplasma genitalium says it it sexually transmitted. Transmission probabilities should be found and added to this page. 62.107.105.61 (talk) 21:50, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: here and here. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa (talk) 15:01, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Sexually transmitted disease v. Sexually transmitted infection

There seems to be some inconsistency in other articles as to whether the description "Sexually transmitted infection" should be used in place of "Sexually transmitted disease". If this article is titled STD than all other references (unless there is a specific need for it to be STD) should be to that title, otherwise the title should be changed to "Sexually transmitted infection" and references in other articles, as appropriate, should be to STIs. Personally, I would prefer the use of the term STD in other articles, which is a term more widely used in the press and the community. Enthusiast (talk) 05:55, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

For what led Ewawer (Enthusiast) here, see this and this.
Like I told Ewawer, and as those familiar with this talk page know, this matter has been discussed on this talk page. Extensively, in fact. #STI verses STD and #Requested move are the most recent discussions about it and note the past discussions. To others, like I told Ewawer, I am now in favor of using "sexually transmitted infection" or "STI" over "sexually transmitted disease" or "STD." Using either is not that big of a deal to me anymore, however. I still consider any of these infections to be a disease, based on the definition of disease. And no matter the title of this article, either name will bring readers to this article. Flyer22 (talk) 06:18, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
That is what brought my query here for clarification (I'm not seeking a title change). I also am not fussed about which term to use, but it should, I believe, be consistent. Enthusiast (talk) 07:10, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
STI is the term used by the ICD10. We could discuss it again as it has been more than a year. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 08:57, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
The distinction between STI and STD seems pedantic and confusing. This kind of terminology mixup is pitiful. Why would an article be called STD and then say STI is preferred, and use STI pretty much throughout? :) Why would someone think an infection is not a disease? With the basic terminology in such confusion, it's a bad sign the field is in confusion / disarray. 71.212.97.141 (talk) 09:36, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Saw the comment by the IP around the time that the IP made the comment, but I was too sleepy to be in the mood to reply at that time. Anyway, IP, besides the previous discussions noted above (that mostly address naming issues, but also discuss the distinction between an infection and a disease), reading some of the Infection and Disease articles may help you understand why distinctions are sometimes made between infection and disease (particularly in the medical field). Flyer22 (talk) 12:26, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

2003 document from WHO [4] bottom of page vi says STI prefered since 1999. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:57, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

James, as noted above, I am now in favor of the article being titled Sexually transmitted infection, but I think you should start a new official WP:Requested moves discussion before moving the article. Also, if this article is to stay titled Sexually transmitted disease, then, unlike this recent edit you made, I think that the lead should lead with the title of the article. Flyer22 (talk) 02:13, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Sure was setting the lead up for translation. I will start a rename RfC. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:28, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Requested move (2014)

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. The main arguments here centred around WP:COMMONNAME and accuracy. Most of the opposers of the proposed move claimed that STD was still the COMMONNAME. However, this was countered by the supporters, who noted that usage is moving towards STI, and STI is dominant in the medical field. Evidence was produced to support both viewpoints. A secondary consideration noted by several supporters was that STD is an incorrect term as in many cases there are no symptoms and therefore infection is the correct description. As WP:COMMONNAME states, "inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources.", so it appears appropriate to defer to the viewpoint of the clear majority of commenters (over two-thirds) who supported the move. Number 57 16:17, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


Sexually transmitted disease → Sexually transmitted infection – World Health Organization document from 2003 [5] bottom of page vi says STI prefered over STD since 1999. Most STIs are initially without symptoms thus not technically STDs yet we cover them on this page. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 03:18, 14 December 2014 (UTC) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:31, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Survey

We should use the correct term rather than simply the most popular one. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:46, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Technically, both terms are correct, as has been stated in the past move discussions above (including the ones noted in the banner) that compare medical sources; it's just that many medical sources now prefer to use the term sexually transmitted infection (STI). Regardless of that preference, the term disease can and often does refer to an infection. Dekimasu, if you have not already done so, look at the past move discussions on this topic. I was at the point you are at now, but I now prefer the term sexually transmitted infection (STI) for use on Wikipedia. However, I usually word the matter this way: "Sexually transmitted infections (STIs/STDs)." That is so readers who are not familiar with the term sexually transmitted infection (STI) get the point that it means the same thing as sexually transmitted disease (STD), which is why there is only one article for both terms. Flyer22 (talk) 06:52, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
George Ho, what do you mean by "commonality arguments"? Also, I thought about contacting WP:Med about this move discussion, but I decided not to as to not bias the discussion. I think that it's just as important for non-medical editors, including those who, like many health sources do, still use the term STD to mean what "STI" encompasses, to weigh in on this discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 03:28, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I'll rephrase: I'm told that infection is more commonly used than disease regarding transmissions during sex. But I'm told otherwise. --George Ho (talk) 03:40, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment: This move appears inevitable; if not now, then in the next ten years. The trendlines are clear, at least through 2008 when Google's ngrams stop. But I do think there's a COMMONNAME issue here that can't be dismissed simply by pointing out that the two technically mean something different. In medical usage they do, but in common usage, they don't. I can see both sides here, so I still remain neutral as I was for the previous move discussion. Powers T 03:42, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, LtPowers, I agree that this is a WP:Common name issue, just as it was all the other times it was proposed that the article be moved to the Sexually transmitted infection title; this is why not only does the WP:Common name policy apply in this case, so does Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles#Article titles. But I reiterate that a lot of medical sources still use the term sexually transmitted disease (STD) in place of sexually transmitted infection (STI); like our Sexually transmitted disease Wikipedia article currently notes, the two terms are used interchangeably; it's simply that STI has become, or is becoming in other cases, the preferred term in medical sources. Flyer22 (talk) 03:56, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose I am quite prepared to be convinced that "Sexually transmitted infection" has become more common then "Sexually transmitted disease", but no attempt has been made to do so in this move request. The onus is on the proposer and supporters of a move to prove that the new title is more commonly used. It may well be that within some medical circles, infection is preferred to disease, but that by no means applies to all medical circles, as has been pointed out previously. Within the general population, there appears to be an overwhelming preference for disease. Basically, what I'm saying is that if you want to move the article, stop being lazy: do the legwork and convince us that infection is more common than disease (an assertion that one is "correct" and the other isn't doesn't convince when medical sources are split on the issue). Skinsmoke (talk) 04:34, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. A definition of infection is:
    "The invasion and multiplication of microorganisms such as bacteria, viruses, and parasites that are not normally present within the body. An infection may cause no symptoms and be subclinical, or it may cause symptoms and be clinically apparent." (MedicineNet).
A definition of disease is:
"an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions, is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms, and is a response to environmental factors (as malnutrition, industrial hazards, or climate), to specific infective agents (as worms, bacteria, or viruses), to inherent defects of the organism (as genetic anomalies), or to combinations of these factors" (Merriam-Webster Medical).
Since some sexually transmitted infections may be asymptomatic, it is clearly more correct to use infection as the group noun. Some STIs may be STDs, but not all. --RexxS (talk) 15:08, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Your rationale is clearly WP:OR. -- Calidum 15:32, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
The Original Research policy addresses article content. Using original research in a discussion is perfectly allowable. Powers T 02:38, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Whether strictly correct or not, the STD term seems to be much more commonly used than the other term. Although some sources express a preference for the other term, they seem to have different criteria for selecting the terms they use than Wikipedia does. —BarrelProof (talk) 00:41, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. A redirect from STI etc. and a (sourced of course) note in the article regarding the officially preferred terms is according to policy, and helpful to readers (our bottom line). To move the article to the official name is not. The most common mistake regarding article titles strikes again. Andrewa (talk) 16:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose -- Some medics may regard infection as different from disease (rather than a subset). To me as a layman, a person with the flu has a disease as well as an infection. I agree with Andrewa as to redirects etc. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:09, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support per points made above. --Tom (LT) (talk) 05:05, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Infections are potentially asymptomatic, while the word "disease" implies some degree of symptomatology. Also following accepted nomenclature. JFW | T@lk 09:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support Both uses exist in medicine. Both are acceptable. "Sexually transmitted infection" is the modern usage because it is sensitive to people who have HIV. People with HIV can live normal lives with treatment and usually prefer to say that they have an "infection" rather than a "disease", because the disease associated with HIV is AIDS. A lot of activism and public awareness campaigns have tried to raise awareness that not everyone who has HIV has AIDS, and that people with HIV are not doomed to get the disease AIDS. Since HIV is the most commonly discussed sexually transmitted infection and since the response to that condition gets the most funding and attention, I think that it is right that practices associated with HIV also set the precedent for this article. Blue Rasberry (talk) 13:17, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support per User:Bluerasberry and others. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 14:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Note: Doc James alerted WP:Med to this discussion; so that is why other medical editors are now weighing in on this. Like I noted above, I decided against alerting WP:Med. But I understand the need to get more medical editors involved in this discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 16:16, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I have also notified those of WT:SEX. --George Ho (talk) 21:30, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I usually no longer bother notifying that WikiProject of anything; this is because it is generally inactive. I am one of its WP:Watchers, though. Flyer22 (talk) 21:41, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support with a redirect for STD. The article covers infections which do not fit the definition of diseases. The common name argument holds weight but I think the redirect would handle the issue. - - MrBill3 (talk) 03:56, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support: STI is becoming the preferred term even in reliable sources over the past ten years to a level of near-parity with STD. In the absence of a name overwhelmingly more common than the others, I would prefer the term used in medical literature. Sceptre (talk) 23:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose:
Clear-cut case of COMMONNAME, regardless of what is politically correct. –Chase (talk / contribs) 00:27, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
More a clear-cut case of why we don't use google hits to determine article titles. Any given item may be about sexually transmitted diseases or sexually transmitted infections. They are not the same thing, but if there are are more webpages mentioning the diseases than the infections, then you get the result you quote. By your logic, since there are 120 million ghits for "apples", but only 30 million ghits for "pears", we should rename the Fruit article to Apples because it's the commonest name for fruit. --RexxS (talk) 01:51, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
That's actually not the same logic. At all. Fruit is a general topic; STD/STI is a specific topic (within the general topic of medical conditions), and the terms – despite your claim to the contrary – are synonymous. And we don't use Google hits to determine article titles? That's news to me. While Google results are not the end-all-be-all, they are often cited in RMs, especially in cases like these. –Chase (talk / contribs) 05:51, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
What we really care about is what do recent reliable sources use? We have 1529 reviews from the last 5 years for "sexually transmitted infection" [6] and we have 844 for "sexually transmitted disease" [7] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:37, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Well I'm glad you got the news now. It's been at Wikipedia:Search engine test #What a search test can do, and what it can't for some time. Here's the exact criterion from Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles #Article titles, part of our MoS: "The article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name) or a historical eponym that has been superseded. So no matter how much you think a disease is the same as an infection, it isn't - and any medical text on the subject will show you the difference, or you could look it up in a dictionary. Either way, you'll find that infections may or may not have symptoms, while diseases have symptoms, which makes diseases a sub-set of infections - in just the same way that apples are a subset of fruit. So, yes, the logic is just as I described: you want to call the full set by the name of a subset, for no other reason than the subset is mentioned on web pages more often than the full set. You're still confusing apples with fruit. --RexxS (talk) 00:09, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
"What a search test can do, and what it can't" says that a search test can "confirm roughly how popularly referenced an expression is". Not perfectly, but it can provide a general idea. The differences in the searches I provided are not insignificant. My opposition remains and will remain unchanged; I will remind you that MoS is a guideline and COMMONNAME is policy. –Chase (talk / contribs) 02:44, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
WP:IAR is also policy. Thus if another policy is going to make Wikipedia wrong we should ignore it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:50, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
I made the argument that STI is the WP:COMMONNAME. This is not a clear case of "commonname", as the commonname has been in transition since about 1995 from STD to STI. Practically all professionals in the field and people who actually have STIs say "STI", whereas the common name for people who have no professional or personal connection to this topic is usually STD, assuming they are connected to the research legacy from before 1995 or so. A Commonname argument would be stronger if it noted which populations use which term. Considering MOS:IDENTITY, "STI" is more common among people personally affected.
I agree that you are correct about popular usage among people who are not closely affected by sexually transmitted conditions, and that demographic is the majority demographic. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:01, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support as one of the commonest (Chlamydia infection) is often asymptomatic and therefore strictly speaking not a disease but is an infection. Infection is the preferred term as it is more accurate (also per WHO which trumps CDC IMO). Common name is all well and good...unless it is inaccurate. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:52, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose.Support. Like others I'm prepared to accept that "infection" is more common in the field of medicine if we see evidence that that's the case. Barring that, however, this Ngram of books since 1980 shows "disease" to be far more common on Google Books. A search at my university library was similar; 98,839 results for disease compared to 40,147 for infection.--Cúchullain t/c 15:09, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Here are review articles from the last 5 years from pubmed.com We have 1529 reviews for "sexually transmitted infection" [8] and 844 for "sexually transmitted disease" [9] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:37, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for that. Works for me; I'm striking my oppose.--Cúchullain t/c 15:03, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Most (not all, but the others lack evidence, see above) of the support votes above seem to rely on arguments that are contrary to policy, and there's no case yet made for an exception in this case.

For example, we're told that STI is to a level of near-parity with STD. In other words, it's not there yet. We're told that we should be sensitive to HIV sufferers, and we should, but here is not the place for such advocacy.

Can any of the supporters produce a rationale based on WP:AT and backed by evidence? It is blatantly lacking so far, despite the enthusiasm for the move. Andrewa (talk) 20:28, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, WP:AT's principal basis is on the accuracy of the title. As you can see from the definitions I supplied from two common dictionionaries, an infection may or may not display symptoms, while a disease is characterised by having symptoms. Diseases are essentially a sub-set of infections. Since this article covers a range of disparate conditions, some of which don't display symptoms, the accurate term that encompasses all of them is therefore infection, not disease.
The literature is little help on this matter, because a particular condition may have symptoms and therefore is accurately described as an STD in a given article; while other articles may be about a particular asymptomatic condition which is then accurately referred to as an STI. Counting hits for STI vs STD in academic sources merely reflects the number of articles about infections versus diseases, and is not a guide to which group noun we should use to label the entire gamut of conditions.
A complicating factor is the abuse of each term in common use: we don't expect the popular press to recognise the distinction between "infection" and "disease", but that is no argument for sloppy terminology in an encyclopedia.
As I easily found the clear definitions in my !vote above, so can anyone look up "infection" and "disease" in their favourite dictionaries and see the distinction. I have seen absolutely no refutation of this to date and I find it utterly inexplicable that you should characterise that as "evidence ... blatantly lacking so far". What more do you need? --RexxS (talk) 08:21, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
There is no "rule" that says we are required to use the most common term when it is incorrect. Thus we do not use the term "heart attack" for both "myocardial infarction" and "cardiac arrest". Heart attack has like 58 million google pages while MI just has 12 million and cardiac arrest has 9 million Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:11, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe we should change that one then. -- Calidum 17:58, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Than we can have two articles with the same name? We do not make stuff wrong in an effort to use the most common term. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:21, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
“STD” isn’t more ambiguous than “STI”… that’s the problem with “heart attack,” that it’s too imprecise. While “STD” may be a misnomer, it is generally understood to mean the same thing as “STI” and is more widely recognized. —174.141.182.82 (talk) 17:12, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
There is a Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Identity issue here. People who do not have an STD/STI tend to not care much and use the STD term. As soon as a person or their family member actually contracts one, they tend to avoid saying "I am diseased" and prefer to say "I have an infection." Yes, you are right that STD is "generally understood to mean the same thing" and "more widely recognized". But for the group of people who actually have HIV, for example, almost universally there is a strong stigma against them which grows even stronger when those around them say they have a disease versus an infection. You are right about the majority usage but I am advocating for minority rights. It is mainstream and non-controversial at this point to make many concessions to people living with HIV, and this is a common concession to request and to make. Blue Rasberry (talk) 17:25, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
The concept of a stigma around having a disease is completely foreign to me. Do you have any evidence that having a disease is less stigmatizing than having an infection? Powers T 21:03, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
propaganda which contributed to the differentiation of HIV and AIDS
LtPowers It is the other way - having an infection is less stigmatizing than a disease.
I could show lots of things but I am unsure what kind of evidence would be persuasive. I participate in lots of HIV-related projects and the concept of separating disabilities from identity has been fundamental since the 1980s in the United States and so far as I know, adopted internationally in all communities which have opinions on HIV/AIDS. I take it for granted because everyone around me lives in this field, so I am not sure how to explain it to any outsider, but I will try.
I just pulled a poster which is representative of the movement. It shows things that people might touch, and says that it is not possible to get AIDS from them. There was a time when most people did not distinguish between infections and diseases, and the thought was that when people with a communicable disease touched something then they made it infectious. A huge international public health campaign was established to differentiate the disease from the infection, and to say that a person with the disease cannot under typical circumstances spread the infection. This changed a lot of perspectives and language, and most relevant in this case, made people with HIV start saying "I am living with HIV" instead of "I have AIDS" and drawing a line between having the infection and having disease symptoms. The fact that practically all people with HIV make this language distinction now is probably the strongest evidence that this is a normal practice, but there are other perspectives. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:57, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Apologies for accidentally reversing the terms. But I'm not at all clear on what "separating disabilities from identity" has to do with the distinction between diseases and infections. My understanding is that a disease is the condition while an infection is what causes it; what does that have to do with identity? Also, my understanding was that self-identification shifting to HIV from AIDS was largely due to an increase in the number of HIV-positive persons who never develop full-blown AIDS. Powers T 20:07, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Hmm... on reflection I know less about this topic than I imagined. I think you are right about the shift in terms becoming significantly widespread when in the 1990s some hope came from drugs which had efficacy in treating HIV. Before that time, when HIV always led to AIDS, I think there was less distinction. But from that time and even until now, public health practices differentiate the infection from the disease. In community health marketing, an "infection" is discussed as something to treat with adherence to a health regimen whereas a "disease" is discussed as something which people who follow the regimen never have to experience.
The bit about identity and disability is explained analogously in "People-first language". With HIV, people tend to say "I am living with HIV" or "I have HIV". Other ways of saying this - like "I am living with a disease" or calling someone infected or diseased - run the risk of offending someone depending on the audience. The term "disease" has a connotation of being part of someone's own person, whereas the term "infection" has a connotation of a foreign body invading a person. To say "infection" emphasizes that the person has distance from the condition, and from a public health perspective, is advertising lingo to convince people that if they follow their doctor's orders that the infection will remain distant and not progress into a closer disease. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:39, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Apologies for my obstinacy, but it seems one can use people-first language just as easily with diseases. I don't agree with the connotations you describe, so I guess I'd need to see some sort of evidence that they are as you describe. And of course even then it leaves unaddressed the question of whether we should be taking those connotations into consideration in naming the article -- and if so, how. Powers T 15:15, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Interesting discussion. I've posted [10] a heads-up at Wikipedia talk:Article titles#Accuracy and usage. Andrewa (talk) 19:50, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2016

Anal sex insertive HIV is NOT 0.62% and varies between (95% CI 0.15%-2.85%), as per the paper cited, on whether ejaculation occurred inside or outside. Anal sex receptive HIV is NOT 1.7% and also varies between (95% CI 0.07%-1.68%) for uncircumcised men (lower for circumcised) Thanks for updating it to match source data! Rems2K (talk) 04:16, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Please be clear as to exactly what you want changed, to what, and a source for it. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 04:12, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Citation 87 is plagiarized content

Whoever created or changed the link citation to the CBC News article cited #87 used their own link after copying the source material from here. This should be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dallasguy214 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

@Dallasguy214: I see what you mean. I fixed it, and cited the original source. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:57, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Edit Request: Misleading information

The article says that "STIs are infections that are commonly spread by sex, especially vaginal intercourse, anal sex and oral sex." However the link to the word "sex" leads to https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Human_sexual_activity which also includes solo activities like masturbation. STIs cannot be transmitted by solo acts like masturbation. It is transmitted from something/someone infected to a human. The line is misleading and must be amended to "STIs are infections that are commonly spread by sexual activity with an infected or at-risk of infection person(s) or object(s), especially vaginal intercourse, anal sex and oral sex." 117.202.49.127 (talk) 18:11, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:14, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Add needle sharing risk

Could you also mention the risk of passing on the diseases by needle sharing? And that transmission by mosquitoes "is at the worst extremely unlikely" (quote from https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Mosquito). 59.96.42.130 (talk) 14:55, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Error in section 3.1 possible risks for "receiving oral sex—woman"?

Section 3.1 mentions gonorrhea as a possible risk when a woman receives oral sex. However, when I look at the cited article (http://sti.bmj.com/content/74/2/95.full.pdf+html), it doesn't seem to make any mention of this fact. I'm not used to reading medical articles so I'm not going to change it myself, but perhaps someone with more medical knowledge could verify? Perziktarine (talk) 20:09, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Says "Oro-genital sex is implicated as a route of transmission for gonorrhoea," Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:13, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
But isn't that the conclusion to the article in which they do not mention possible transmission through receiving oral sex as a woman? I mean, that line should be the summary/conclusion to the article, so if the article does not include that as a risk, it wouldn't be included in the summary? Perziktarine (talk) 07:25, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sexually_transmitted_infection/Archive_4&oldid=1137182156"