Talk:Raden Saleh

More work needed

I have obtained a copy of the book by Hamid Algadri. On page 30 the book states that Raden Saleh Syarif Bustaman (full name on page 26) is not the same as Raden Saleh the painter. The caption of his portrait on page 59 has the words 'Sayid Saleh bin Husein Alwi bin Yaya (Raden Saleh Syral Bustaman) is [+] Raden Saleh the painter, but the images we have do not match, and I assume the here [+] the word `not' was omitted. There is more confusion since in the text `Raden Saleh' - as pointed out by the comments below, just a honorific, is used about a dozen times and the references have to be resolved from context. I must make the assumption that there are inded two related Raden Salehs and that the information in the current article convolutes them. Splitting the entries also resolves that nationalistic attitude of Raden Saleh Syarif and Raden Saleh the painter. I plan to visit the University of Leiden this summer (2016) to obtain some of the cited source documents, and then split the article. Any pointers to source documents will be appreciated. I may also need help in translations from Bahasa, since I only know a few words. If the 1994 book is a translation from an Indonesoan original (implied in the back cover as having appeared in 1984), it would be helpful to have access to a copy of the source. By personal interest stems from the fact that a great aunt of mine, Constancia von Mansfeldt, as a widow, was either married or at least had an affair with him between 1852-1867. My uncle, the source of that information, was not quite clear. I have met other remote family in Malaysia that seems to verify that, because they had some of Raden Saleh's sketches. GioCM (talk) 15:19, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Oddity from earlier

About the language (see also UPDATE below):

The article looks like it was created in Indonesian ('Bahasa Indonesia' one of the standardized forms of Malay and the national language of the Republic of Indonesia) and then translated into English with some translation device, probably online. There are several elements that suggest this:

- 'Raden Pious': 'saleh', in addition to being used as a proper name, is a regular Indonesian/Malay word (a loan from Arabic) which indeed does mean 'pious'.

- The inappropriate use of 'photograph' and 'self-photograph'. 'Photograph' is one of the translations of the Indonesian word 'potret' which means both 'picture, photograph' (particularly of a person), and 'portrait'. Alternate (but less frequent) Indonesian forms/spellings are 'portret' and 'porteret', all loans from French 'portrait' through Dutch 'portret'. The verb 'memotret' can also mean both 'to draw [someone's] portrait' or 'to take [someone's] picture.

These are just two examples, there are many more. I may take a shot at editing it myself when I find the time.

About the contents:

The section dealing with the interpretation of the painting 'The Capture of Diponegoro' is rather speculative and IMHO does not represent a neutral POV. There has been a tendency among Indonesian nationalists and politicians to attribute nationalist motives to prominent 'Indonesians', but Raden Saleh went out of his way to be accepted by the colonial elite. I don't believe there is any historical evidence that he deliberatly put an anti-colonial message into that painting.

UPDATE:

The text appears to have been virtually copied from a text (see <http://www.nusantara.com/heritage/raden.html> by Sian Jay. Note: That (presumably original) text is written in readable English, whereas that of the current Wikipedia is 'scrambled'. I still assume the scrambling is the result of either an automatic translating device or of a very crude, word-for-word translation from an Indonesian source (see the evidence cited above). So the Wikipedia article is either based on an existing Indonesian version of the Sian Jay article, or it was translated back and forth repeatedly, possible to obscure its origin.

It appears, therefore, that the current article also violates the copyright (which is claimed by Editions Didier Millet).

UPDATE 2 (4 July 2006):

Copyright of the English text is also claimed by Hundeshagen (http://www.hundeshagen.net/English.htm) whose site also contains a German (http://www.hundeshagen.net/Deutsch.htm) and an Indonesian (http://www.hundeshagen.net/Bahasa.htm) page, each of which is almost identical in layout and illustrations, but contains totally different text. None of the versions are translations or even adaptations of any of the other versions.

All this makes authorship of the Wikipedia article unclear.

{unsigned)

Why you acussing me? I write self this article but with example. Maybe from this website, I forget. Other people can make better my article. Wong Jawa 23:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

• round-trip translation. Meursault2004 (talk) 13:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Year of birth

http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/aria/aria_assets/SK-A-4703?lang=nl provides year of birth as 1911 not 1907. Where did 1907 come from?--Jarekt (talk) 14:19, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

File:Raden Saleh.jpg to appear as POTD

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Raden Saleh.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on February 17, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-02-17. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:17, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Picture of the day

Raden Saleh (1811–1880) was a Romantic painter of Arab-Javanese ethnicity from the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia). Born in Semarang, in 1829 he was sent to the Netherlands to study portraiture and landscape painting under artists such as Cornelis Kruseman and Andreas Schelfhout. Upon returning to Java in 1851, Saleh focused predominantly on the day-to-day lives of the Javanese, although he also completed his magnum opus, The Arrest of Pangeran Diponegoro, in this period.

This painting, though long thought to be a self-portrait, is now attributed to Friedrich Carl Albert Schreuel, a German artist whom Saleh knew during his time in Europe.Painting: Friedrich Carl Albert Schreuel