Talk:Pregnancy-associated femicide

Proposed title change and updating article

Hello!

I have been working on updating and expanding this page for the past few weeks, and I wanted to explain the changes I made to the page, as well as my proposed article title change.

First, I requested changing the title of this article to "Pregnancy and Femicide" rather than "Murder of Pregnant Women" because, throughout the research I conducted to update and expand upon this page, the importance of designating this type of homicide as gender-based, and therefore a femicide, in order to properly address it and prevent further cases, was repeatedly emphasized. I therefore believe that changing the title to reflect this notion is crucial. Additionally, considering studies on pregnancy-associated femicide not only comprise the period of pregnancy, but the postpartum period as well, I feel that the current title does not accurately reflect the subject.

Regarding the article itself, I updated and expanded upon the “Statistics” section to reflect the most recent research on the subject, both in the United States and globally, as most of the research included on this page dates back over 10 years ago and only covers the U.S. I updated the "Laws and policies" section to highlight that there are no legal policies in the United States to specifically address victims of femicide. I also included in this section that the same is true in Canada, as well as most countries around the world, with Latin American countries being a notable exception. On the talk page, someone recommended finding better sourcing for the existing information in the "Laws and policies" section, so I updated the sources and referencing for that information as well.

I expanded upon the "Intervention" section, covering racial inequities in the health care system as a significant prevention method, as racism in healthcare has been linked to the increased prevalence of pregnancy-associated femicide for Black American women. The "Intervention" section therefore now includes addressing racial inequities and biases in the health care system. Considering most pregnancy-associated femicides are preceded by IPV, I also added training obstetricians in identifying instances of IPV to the "Intervention" section. Additionally, reproductive rights and stricter gun legislation are also now included in the "Intervention" section, as unplanned pregnancies and gun ownership have been linked to pregnancy-associated femicide as well. Finally, the "Intervention" section also includes researchers' recommendations to develop standardized methods of documenting and classifying pregnancy-associated homicides, both in the United States and globally.

The introduction has been updated to reflect the changes made throughout this Wikipedia entry. Finally, I plan to add a short section for "Known cases" in the upcoming weeks. Samdlb123 (talk) 18:11, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 31 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Move to Pregnancy-associated femicide. Consensus established during the discussion to move the article to the alternative proposal of Pregnancy-associated femicide. (closed by non-admin page mover) Raladic (talk) 19:11, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

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Murder of pregnant women → Pregnancy and femicide – I think the page should be named "Pregnancy and femicide" rather than "Murder of pregnant women" because, throughout the research I conducted to update and expand upon this page, the importance of designating this type of homicide as gender-based, and therefore a femicide, in order to properly address it and prevent further cases, was repeatedly emphasized. I therefore believe that changing the title to reflect this notion is crucial. Additionally, considering studies on pregnancy-associated femicide not only comprise the period of pregnancy, but the postpartum period as well, I feel that the current title does not accurately reflect the subject. Samdlb123 (talk) 03:38, 31 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 17:28, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposal adjusted to WP:SENTENCECASE, assuming the title case was just a lack of awareness of the sentence case convention. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 09:25, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Well argued. Frankly I was expecting both the article and the RM to be blatantly POV, but the article is well referenced and NPOV, and while the nomination does not explicitly refer to policy the move will IMO clearly improve Wikipedia. I am sincerely impressed. Difficult subject well handled. (The article is blatantly US-centric but that is a different issue.) Andrewa (talk) 09:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Given WP:AND, I might prefer Pregnancy-associated femicide to Pregnancy and femicide. Suriname0 (talk) 22:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Pregnancy-related femicide? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Pregnancy-associated is more aligned with the usage I am familiar with. In the US, state maternal mortality review committees and the CDC define a pregnancy-related death as any death that occurs during pregnancy or up to 1 year after live birth, where the cause of death is related to or aggravated by the pregnancy or pregnancy management. Homicides, suicides, accidental death, and other non-natural causes of death are excluded. Pregnancy-associated death is an umbrella term that includes all deaths during pregnancy or within 1 year of birth, including those that are pregnancy-related, but also "unnatural" deaths like homicide, natural deaths determined not to be "pregnancy-related," and indeterminate cases. Sometimes it is defined more narrowly to exclude deaths that are determined to be pregnancy-related. I support Pregnancy-associated femicide, which is the term currently used in the opening sentence. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 00:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Support Pregnancy-associated femicide per Myceteae, who seems familiar with the terminology convention. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Welp, just came back here to say I looked at some sources and homicide can be classified as pregnancy-related. For example here (WA MMRC) and here (CDC). I’d be happy to do a more thorough review if helpful. I read a lot of these, unfortunately. Otherwise, I would still prefer pregnancy-associated femicide as this is the broader term. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 03:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  User:Samdlb123, I'm very interested in your opinion on this alternative suggestion. Andrewa (talk) 08:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Support Pregnancy-associated femicide (change of !vote, previous one struck). Ticks all the boxes. Andrewa (talk) 20:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Hi @Andrewa, thank you so much for your kind words regarding the article! I agree with the suggestion made by @Suriname0 and @Myceteae regarding the title of "Pregnancy-associated femicide" being better suited for this article instead of "Pregnancy and femicide". Regarding the difference between "pregnancy-related" and "pregnancy-associated" , as @Myceteae pointed out, the term "pregnancy-related" is commonly used in relation to natural causes of maternal death, excluding unnatural causes like homicide, whereas "pregnancy-associated" is the term most frequently used to refer to both natural and unnatural causes of maternal death, including homicide. Considering "pregnancy-associated femicide" is indeed the official term used to designate this type of violent crime, and would therefore be a clearer, more accurate title for this subject, I agree with this alternative title suggestion, and support a move to Pregnancy-associated femicide for this article. Samdlb123 (talk) 16:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Simply credit where credit is due. Like most admins, much of my time is spent dealing with sub-standard efforts, which is why we call adminship "the mop". This discussion has been refreshing for many reasons, see below.

  But I'm super-sensitive to anyone who says my article. All pages (even user and user talk pages) belong to the whole project.

  You've shown no sign of violating wp:own or even wp:creed#own, and that's IMO the main reason we seem to be forming a good consensus here, again credit where credit is due. So I point that out just for others lurking here. As I said, it's one of my buttons, and that's a result of many years of challenging experience here. Andrewa (talk) 08:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Wikipedia is indeed a collaborative project and, as such, I have edited my original comment from "my article" to "the article" to reflect that. Thank you for pointing that out. I am relatively new to Wikipedia and still getting a handle on it, so I appreciate the insight. Samdlb123 (talk) 15:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  This is technically (and perhaps pedantically) a violation of WP:REDACT but I don't suggest correcting it now, just something to bear in mind in future. Andrewa (talk) 08:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  Okay noted, thank you! Samdlb123 (talk) 23:48, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.