Talk:Saraya Bevis

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Saraya Bevis has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
May 28, 2014	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 1, 2014.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Paige was scared of professional wrestling as a child, but went on to win the WWE Divas Championship at age 21?

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 17, 2023.

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Discussions:

RM, Paige (wrestler) → Saraya (wrestler), Not moved, 29 September 2022, discussion
RM, Paige (wrestler) → Saraya (wrestler), Moved to Saraya Bevis, 26 March 2023, discussion

Personal life section

Aardwolf68, whoever else was in a private leaked tape (or what occurred in the tape) is irrelevant to this page, and is unnecessary trivia of a un-encyclopedic nature. A mention of this leak happening and Paige's response is sufficient. This article is a WP:BLP - read the policy: "Biographies of living persons must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives." An ex's rants, claims, personal issues is also unencyclopedic especially if those claims are not supported by reliable sources independently of routine celebrity gossip. Again, WP:BLP: "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives." And read WP:NOTNEWS: "Even when an individual is notable, not all events they are involved in are. ... Not every facet of a celebrity's life, personal details, matches played, or goals scored is significant enough to be included in the biography of a person." Do not reinstate either content without seeking consensus (WP:BLPN); read WP:ONUS: "While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. ... The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content." These are all Wikipedia policies. Lapadite (talk) 23:01, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus that it is WP:TOOSOON and WP:COMMONNAME. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 03:46, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Paige (wrestler) → Saraya (wrestler) – Saraya is no longer with WWE and no longer uses the name Paige as a professional wrestler. She's currently going by Saraya, her actual first name, in AEW. Even her former Twitter account (@RealPaigeWWE) is inactive, and the one she's using now is simply Saraya. TJ AJ RJ Backslashinfourth V (talk) 17:28, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well I have some questions. Did she ever wrestle under the name "Saraya"? If not, then why wouldn't the title just be changed to Saraya Bevis? Unless "Saraya" was/is a stage name, I see no reason to to just have the title be her first and last name. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:32, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support: It's both her current professional name and her real name. Lapadite (talk) 20:40, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As any other wrestler, it's too soon. From 2011 to 2022, she worked with WWE as Paige, being part of the Women's Revolution and NXT and Divas Champion. As Paige she was part of Total Divas reality show during 7 seasons. There is a movie about her (Fighting with My Family, 2019) By far, her work as Paige has more weight than her current work as Saraya. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:14, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TJ AJ RJ Backslashinfourth V strong support: Matt Cardona, Bryan Danielson, Claudio Castagnoli being perfect examples. Gorrrillla5 00:28, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not suggesting that any of that be removed from the page or in any way invalidated, but insisting on referring to her by her former ring name is an objective misnomer, as she no longer uses the name professionally. What would your proposed time frame for the name change look like? TJ AJ RJ Backslashinfourth V (talk) 23:15, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:TOOSOON. --Mann Mann (talk) 02:53, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - we should really have the name that is most familiar with the subject per WP:COMMONNAME. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:49, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose - WP:COMMONNAME and WP:TOOSOON PedigreeWWEFigz87V2 (talk) 17:27, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Separately from the move discussion above, answering @TJ AJ RJ Backslashinfourth V:'s question on the timeframe: Based on prior discussions that I have seen related to such changes in names, we typically wait for at least 3-6 months before requesting for a page move, some also would wait until the subject has participated in a season or won some award. This is so that it can be established in reliable secondary sources that the new ring name sticks (e.g. there are more reliable secondary sources identifying her using solely her new ring name, and/or only referencing to her old ring name for historically purposes than those who identify her by her previous ring name). In the meantime, redirects and/or hatnote (if relevant) should suffice in bringing readers to the right article. – robertsky (talk)

Disagree with those opposing. She is no longer being refered to as Paige. She has changed all her social handles to Saraya and she has stated on numerous podcasts that she goes by her real name Saraya on all wrestling related things. Majority of people are calling her Saraya now. I agree with the page redirect with Saraya being the actual page and Paige redirects to Saraya. MWBarretto24 (talk) 14:49, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Bryan Danielson page name changed, and not this one? Just as he is no longer Daniel Bryan so too should this page be changed. She is clearly going by Saraya 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:3441:5F74:4A3F:B97D (talk) 23:37, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Why is Bryan Danielson page name changed, and not this one? Just as he is no longer Daniel Bryan so too should this page be changed." Bryan Danielson is his real name AND he wrestled under that name for about a decade on the indies prior to joining WWE. Also he's been wrestling as Bryan Danielson for almost a year and half now post WWE. RyanConnell5150 (talk) 07:44, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Saraya never wrestled under her real name prior to WWE. It's a brand new ring name. However when the woman herself has said that's her ring name now and has changed all her social media, Wikipedia should follow suit. RyanConnell5150 (talk) 07:45, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is going to take to have this article renamed? This is a serious question 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:E91A:6B46:6DB5:CF04 (talk) 23:47, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think a serious discussion should be begun about changing the name of this article again. At this point it should be named Saraya Bevis, with Paige (wrestler) being the redirect — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.141.54.166 (talk) 15:39, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

Thanks to wrestling edits for correction her respective family have been notified this person is harassing saraya- jade police action would be advised 82.153.173.200 (talk) 00:57, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Saraya Bevis. There's no argument that NAMECHANGES doesn't also apply here, which follows the general trend of the many "wrestlers move promotions, get new ring names" RMs we get. However, there was some concern that the move as requested would be basically an WP:INCOMPLETEDAB given her mother also used the same name. The birth name alternative seems to be the least contentious one in the RM, and wouldn't be too out-of-kilter with other mononymous wrestlers with Wikipedia articles (Natalya Neidhart being the first one that came to my mind) (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Paige (wrestler) → Saraya (wrestler) – Enough time has elapsed between when the subject had signed with AEW in September 2022 and now. Searches on Google for news from October 2022 onwards indicates that she is now mostly reported as Saraya, or with Paige together as fka name. Searching using her first name and last name returns news reporting her with just her first name. In my opinion, this fulfils WP:NAMECHANGE. Google searches: Paige (wrestler), Oct 22 - Mar 23, Saraya Bevis, Oct 22 - Mar 23, Saraya wrestler, Oct 22 - Mar 23 – robertsky (talk) 16:00, 26 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 23:29, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Rreagan007, Lapadite, TJ AJ RJ Backslashinfourth V, HHH Pedrigree, Mann Mann, Lee Vilenski, PedigreeWWEFigz87V2, and Gorrrillla5: for your attention, given your prior participation in the previous RM. – robertsky (talk) 16:05, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here here. It is about time this page was updated. Users can still type in Paige (wrestler) if they don't know her real name and be redirected, but the article should be named Saraya. 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:695E:B525:32CA:F52D (talk) 15:12, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: For more input since a earlier RM was closed as not moved. {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 23:29, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - There's another Saraya, Sweet Saraya. And renaming Paige's name to Saraya's just makes it ambiguous on whether we're discussing about Sweet Saraya the mom or Saraya the daughter. Though she's gaining fame and notability as Saraya in AEW, she's still better known as Paige. Hansen Sebastian^Talk 02:43, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for highlighting Sweet Saraya. I wasn't aware. In that case, I propose using her full name, Saraya Bevis as the natural disambiguation. – robertsky (talk) 02:59, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why was Ember Moon article so quickly changed to Athena? I don't understand the logic. I think renaming to Saraya Bevis should be a priority. 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:B4DE:C79C:FD2E:E74 (talk) 15:34, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Let's not to get into an argument about other articles and focus on this. – robertsky (talk) 15:58, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is not an argument. It is simply comparing to similar articles, including Bryan Danielson. And when the person widely refers to themselves by another name, why shouldn't Wikipedia respect that?

Similarly for instance look at the article for Elliot Page, would it be right to still have the name Ellen even though that person is still widely remembered under that name?

Sure she is remembered as Paige, but her name is Saraya Bevis. 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:B4DE:C79C:FD2E:E74 (talk) 17:00, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Again, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Your point has been made. Repeating it is not helping. – robertsky (talk) 17:07, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I just want progress to be made on this, because it is the right thing to do. People can continue to type in Paige (wrestler) and be redirected, but the article name should be changed. 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:B4DE:C79C:FD2E:E74 (talk) 17:12, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You have your point while I have mine. Like robertsky said, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, so don't focus yourself on similar matters such as this. Hansen Sebastian^Talk 04:15, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Professional wrestling has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 15:59, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just to play devil's advocate. As I pointed in the article about Sasha Banks, I try to see the historic perspective, not just the current narrative. From an historic POV, I think Paige still's the common name. 10 years as part of the biggest promotion in the world, face of the divas revolution, part of Total Divas. Also, a few weeks ago WWE presented a documentary about her, WWE Legends. Paige [1]. Also, from my personal exp., I know that at them moment she changes the name again, people will claim that the new name is the common name and Saraya is no longer the common name. If she retires or passes away tomorrow, which name is the common name? Paige or Saraya? --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 07:29, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What about Bryan Danielson? The historic perspective would indicate "Daniel Bryan". 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:793B:2039:225B:A4F7 (talk) 16:03, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Daniel Bryan doesn't only refer to the wrestler. Hence why he was renamed into Bryan Danielson for clarity and to avoid confusion as to which "Daniel Bryan" is which. That's almost like saying Jon Moxley should have stayed as "Dean Ambrose" when historic records say he was Mox for longer than he was Dean (sure I know him as Dean, but Seth "Freakin'" Rollins once name-dropped his old friend as "Mox" on WWE TV, when Mox was in AEW at that time). So I'll have to agree with HHH Pedigree on this when it comes to naming conventions. Once again, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS so delving deeper into this problem won't get us anywhere. Hansen Sebastian^Talk 05:01, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's all fine. But not recognizing the name a person is currently going by, and clearly wants to be known by is wrong. But if this "encyclopedia" wants to continue to be wrong so be it. Her name is Saraya Bevis, and nothing will stop people from typing in Paige if they really don't know her name, and still be redirected. Why MUST the article still be named Paige? That question has not been adequately answered here. "Historic perspective" nonsense. 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:8972:466D:5E58:8722 (talk) 15:34, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Because Paige IS the common name. Hansen Sebastian^Talk 02:10, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think the IP editor needs to be cognizant that as an encyclopedia, we are using the third party sources for most of the time, despite the presence of first party sources. If majority of third party sources were reporting her as Paige, that she is commonly known as Paige. My argument is that while there is such historical baggage, recent reporting, for many months since her move, in third party sources indicates that she has been referred to as Saraya more consistently than as Paige, which fits WP:NAMECHANGE. My alternate proposal is to use her actual name as a natural disambiguation after Hansen had raised the presence of Sweet Saraya article. – robertsky (talk) 02:28, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think the page should be renamed Saraya Bevis, and those who type in Paige would simply be redirected. Additionally at the top of the page it could say "not to be confused with Sweet Saraya".

The insistence on keeping it as Paige really seems disrespectful. She owns her name and her identity, and should not be forever tied to one company's ring name. Again this does not stop people from coming to her page by typing in Paige (if somehow astonishingly they don't know her actual name) and still be redirected. 2604:3D09:6A85:6000:B52F:E474:B35:500 (talk) 04:18, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Saraya Bevis. The nominator's evidence shows convincingly that Saraya (with or without the surname) has become the wrestler's common name in post-name-change sources; even the "Paige (wrestler)" results frequently refer to her as "Saraya (fka Paige)" or similar constructions. Thus, WP:NAMECHANGES supports the proposed move, especially since the article subject is a BLP. I'm supporting "Saraya Bevis" over simply "Saraya" to avoid ambiguity with Sweet Saraya. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 18:39, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.