Talk:Motor launch (naval)

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Military history: Maritime / British / European / World War I

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Not moved, October 2013, to Motor launch, see discussion.
Moved, 12 May 2024, from Motor Launch to Motor launch (naval), see discussion.

Fairmile B

I have copied some information here about Fairmile B to Fairmile B motor launch--Geronimo20 06:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Launch (boat)

The page for Launch (boat) has almost no information on launches other than the fact that they aren't necessarily British Navy vessels. I really think these two pages should be merged and one page be a subsection on the other. Jkar (talk) 15:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

MLs are a quite specific military type of launch, perhaps it would be better to expand the Launch (boat) page to include more types of launch? --jmb (talk) 16:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 October 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Discussion moved to Talk:Motor Gun Boat#Requested move 20 October 2013. All six discussions are in regards to WP:CAPSACRS; best to centralize the discussions so that six separate discussions are not happening. Steel1943 (talk) 07:48, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Motor Launch → Motor launch – We don't capitalise acronyms when written in full (see WP:CAPSACRS) and we don't capitalise the article names of types of ship (eg destroyer escort, aircraft carrier, river gunboat, torpedo boat, torpedo boat destroyer, and so on). The general guidance at Wikipedia is "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization". I have also proposed this change at Motor Torpedo Boat, Motor Gun Boat, Steam Gun Boat and Coastal Motor Boat. Shem (talk) 16:52, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

oppose all (although I'm unfamiliar with Steam Gun Boat). These are not the simple combinations of words as for aircraft carrier etc., but they are proper noun phrases, supported as such by the many relevant sources, and so should be treated and capitalised as such. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:05, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The discussion is being conducted at Talk:Motor Gun Boat. Shem (talk) 21:45, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Motor Gun Boat which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:45, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Two articles on motor launch?

Motor launch redirects to Launch (boat), which as noted above has little overlap with Motor Launch. If these really are different topics, it would be better to distinguish them by more than a capital letter. If Motor Launch is about a particular class of military motor launches, then Motor launch (military boat) or something like that would make more sense. If it's intended to be only about the British MLs, then something that indicates that. Ideas? Dicklyon (talk) 00:47, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Motor Launch is correct, for a specific class of Royal Navy boats, as is motor launch as a simple redirect to launch (boat).

But you already know this, yet you have zero interest in accuracy, rather than your own bias to strip capitalisation from every article. Andy Dingley (talk) 01:39, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What I know is that distinguishing these topics by a dubious case distinction seems like a bad idea. You have no better one? Dicklyon (talk) 02:39, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We should use the correct names. They are Motor Launch; also launch (boat) is reasonable, but motor launch might be preferred. Andy Dingley (talk) 03:06, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fairmile B Motor Launch

RN motor boat (on the port stern davit)

Closed. – Discussion moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships#Motor Launch. Dicklyon (talk) 04:39, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That discussion is now archived, so I am going to comment here: On general principles of encyclopedic organization "Motor Launch" should be taken as a synonym for Motor launch, i.e. a launch powered by a motor; so both titles should redirect to Launch (boat). To do otherwise is just confusing for non-expert readers. However, the phrase does refer to a distinct type of military vessel, and (I think, from a cursory scan) no one has argued that the existing article on that topic should be merged. Instead, I suggest renaming this article with a disambiguation, such as Motor Launch (Royal Navy), and retargeting the redirect Motor Launch after incoming links have been changed. Additionally "Motor Launch" in this article should be consistently capitalised, and mentions of police or other civilian "motor launches" removed as off topic. Hairy Dude (talk) 04:05, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 11:51, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Motor Launch → Motor launch (naval) – This title is miscapitalized and is ambiguous with Motor launch; both capitalizations should redirect to Launch (boat). Since this article is specifically about the naval use, the parenthetical disambiguator seems like a good way to distinguish (and it's not just the Royal Navy, as the article shows). Previous claims that this term is a proper name to the Royal Navy are not born out by evidence from sources (to be provided and discussed at length). Dicklyon (talk) 22:35, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some observations from sources

First, note that the capitalized "Motor Launch" is most commonly used in phrases such as "Motor Launch Flotilla", "Motor Launch Patrol", "Motor Launch No.", "Motor Launch Regulations", which seem likely as proper names. Follow the links to see that the Flotilla and Regulations uses don't appear lowercase enough to show up in stats, but the Patrol and No. are more mixed. Other common contexts are "Motor Launch to" and "Motor Launch and", but as these links show, those are dominated by lowercase usage. Also note that "_START_ Motor Launch" is the most common capitalized context, because that's how title-case table entries appear. In short, there are a few cases where Motor Launch is capped in sources (Flotilla names, Regulation names, specific boat numbers, table entries), but by and large in sentences it's lowercase. There's no evidence of treatment as a proper name. The form "Motor launch" also appears in tables about naval boats (e.g. this one from New Zealand), so it seems clear that naval writers are not treating it as a proper name at all. Dicklyon (talk) 22:51, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, per nom's useful analysis of sources. Davidships (talk) 11:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. These are not a particular class of vessel that might be a proper name but encompasses multiple designs over (at least) two world wars. Nor are they particular to one navy, as evidenced by the article. They are a general type of vessel akin to destroyer or cruiser (also types) and should be lowercase accordingly. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:08, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from the inclusion of the RAF HSL (note not ML) this article only covers the RN British design Motor Launches. GraemeLeggett (talk) 05:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Royal Norwegian Navy. Cinderella157 (talk) 08:54, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I had missed that. I'll modify my statement. GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:27, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Motor launch (Royal Navy). This article is on the specific RN designation, not a generic naval term. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:50, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Move—rather obvious. Tony (talk) 03:55, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom --Turtletennisfogwheat (talk) 11:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move to Motor Launch (<disambig>) and content as for https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Motor_Launch&oldid=172009076

Disambiguation as 'Royal Navy' or 'naval' would either be appropriate, but Royal Navy is more specific and I can't see strong reasons to broaden it.

Yes, Motor Launch should be capitalised in this context. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:35, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]