Talk:Mohammed Deif/Archive 1

Archive 1

BLPSPS

Concerning [1]. Where in the policy does it say it applies only to primary sources? --Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 02:31, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Point of friction between Israeli leaders and Arafat

At one point, Arafat seemed to be actively protecting Deif, while simultaneously telling Israeli government leaders that he knew nothing about the whole thing. This was a significant episode in the downward spiral of trust between the Israeli government and Arafat... AnonMoos (talk) 13:18, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

old talk

He is a suspected bombmaker. other details now corrected. Greg Godwin 14:06 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

It might be good to say who suspecs him of being a bombmaker. If it's Israel, why not say so? --Ed Poor 14:08 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

OK hope that clears it up. Confirmed by Israel and Hamas as being a military commander, but only claimed to be a bombmaker by Israel. Hamas of course will not confirm or deny his acts.

the 9\11 bombers are also claimed\suspected terrorists ? the US claims that they are terrorist ? bin laden is also just suspected ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.43.246.250 (talk) 08:10, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Nicely done. Hey, how much time do you have? There's a lot more work to do around here... --Ed Poor

Point me to it and i'll have a look over things. Greg Godwin 14:21 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

Fox News on Deif's alleged killing

Fox News report specifies the date as "early Wednesday" which would therefore be the 20th of the month. Other sources seem to include this attack together with other attacks Tuesday night, but since the report of his death is based on Fox News we should give the date of the 20th. I already made the necessary correction in the page but it was reverted. Tkuvho (talk) 07:18, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

According to UN definition, Deif should be described as a terrorist

From Wikipedia page on Terrorism:

In November 2004, a United Nations Secretary General report described terrorism as any act "intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act". — Preceding unsigned comment added by ValuableAppendage (talk • contribs) 20:01, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

• We're not going there. There is no way that POV can be kept out of this. Kindly refrain from stating opinions as facts in Wikipedia articles. Drmies (talk) 22:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

It seems obvious to any impartial reader that wikipedia whose owner is after all from the same culture sides systematically with one side. Your definition of 'terrorism' clearly applies the more so to the bombing of Gaza... not to speak that the site is since its blockade a 'concentration camp' as defined in the Oxford dictionary: "a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities..." And yet nobody uses that 'exact term'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.33.104.6 (talk) 09:54, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Someone edit

Hey i recently added his number of childrens as 3 (2 daughters and 1 martyred seven months old son 'Ali') but as per sources Deif's wife had 2 more sons from here previous marriage so how to add that in his infobox I don't know.... Since I'm not that experienced🫠 Faraz Sualeh (talk) 03:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Why is this topic controversial?

I understand the long history between Israel and Palestine but what has happened is unacceptable in terms of humanity. The article infers that this attack was acceptable consequence of the conflict. It's quite sad to see intellectuals not be able to call balls and strikes fairly. Same would apply to Israel if and when such things occur. There's baked in bias. 2601:249:8B00:6C84:C48D:12B0:25D7:6347 (talk) 01:34, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

It's controversial because there's ample evidence of Israel engaging in similarly inhumane and 'unacceptable' behavior. What is 'acceptable' is a matter of perspective. Jamesiepoo88 (talk) 01:42, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Correct, @Jamesiepoo88 -- hence your comment is entirely composed of rancid bile and is completely subjective OR. 65.88.88.56 (talk) 18:46, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Okie doke! Jamesiepoo88 (talk) 19:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2023

Real Name: Mohammed Diab al-Masri [2] Proffession: Terrorist [3] Nowhere of things (talk) 10:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the France 24 source. That's added. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:07, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2023

He’s not a militant. He’s a terrorist, internationally recognized terrorist. He works for a terrorist organization called Hamas. This information is misleading and just WRONG. Likamek (talk) 14:21, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. NotAGenious (talk) 15:29, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

MOS:TERRORIST discussed this in detail, and the article states that The United States Department of State added Deif to its list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists.... NotAGenious (talk) 15:30, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Image

Hi @HaeB, I want to discuss your removal of the fair-use image a few days ago. I respectfully disagree with your reasoning; him not appearing in public has been remarked upon by media.

I understand that he isn't dead, but several living individuals have fair-use images. David Berkowitz is arguably more accessible than Deif, as his location is known and he is open for interviews, but he has a fair-use image (due to his permanent imprisonment). Similarly, Jho Low and Samantha Lewthwaite are fugitives and also have a fair-use image.

I think the best comparison would be Hibatullah Akhundzada, who also is very famous but completely inaccessible. There are only three known photographs of Deif, and one is a silhouette. Bremps... 00:47, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

To clarify, Deif is not imprisoned like Berkowitz, but he is similarly inaccessible to the public. Bremps... 00:49, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for expanding on your WP:NFCC#1 rationale, but WP:OTHERIMAGE explicitly discourages such comparisons with other articles. The article you link to is interesting, but I'm not convinced it conclusively shows that no photo could be created at all even in the future. (By the way, regarding their claim that In the public domain, only three images of Deif are available - one in his 20s, another of him masked, and the third one is the image of his shadow, which the TV used when broadcasting the audio tape: This already seems inaccurate, considering that the photo they show on top of the article is neither masked nor of his shadow, but also different from the photo you uploaded from [4], no?)

I would suggest to open a thread at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content where such tricky cases are frequently discussed. Regards, HaeB (talk) 08:54, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Article overhaul

I just edited the article, adding new information, restructuring the sections and paragraphs and adding a photo.

I removed the Quotes section, as I felt it was not needed here. We don't have quotes on other biography pages. I also removed from the infobox the details about Deif leading the Battle of Gaza (2007) and the 2008 Gaza War, because as per the referenced information I added to the article body, effective authority over the Hamas military wing between July 2006 and November 2012 was exercised not by Deif, but by Ahmed Jabari, due to injuries sustained by Deif in an assassination attempt.

If you disagree with any of those changes, feel free to discuss them in a reply to this topic. Kindly ping me if you do.

Thanks. Moazfargal (talk) 21:48, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 November 2023

spelling: change "adress" to "address" in the photo caption of Deif which currently reads "Picture of a shadow, used in an audio adress by Deif". Bondonk (talk) 12:42, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 17:02, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Full name, part II

• Full name is Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri per "Early life" -- should be added to lede and infobox. 96.246.238.31 (talk) 01:17, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

October 11, 2023 bombing killing Deif's brother and two other relatives

On Wednesday, 11 October, the Jerusalem Post reported that a Deif family home was bombed earlier that same day by Israeli forces. Deif's brother (or a brother of Deif) and two other relatives were killed. Should be added, no? Other reliable sourcing also, including Reuters. 65.88.88.56 (talk) 18:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 21:48, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Assassination attempts section edit request

"It was believed that the seven assassination attempts have lost Deif an eye and limbs, leaving him wheelchair-bound. After the 2006 assassination attempt, Deif spent three months in Egypt for treatment of his skull after shrapnel lodged in it, and he continues to take tranquillizers daily to treat headaches. Hamas has not confirmed or denied these claims and doesn't comment on his health. His survival has earned him the nickname 'the cat with nine lives' among his Israeli adversaries."

Article from the Jerusalem post dated December 20, 2023 (https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-778785) refutes the claim. "From these videos, it now appears that Deif’s condition is significantly better than Israel had believed following a long series of attacks, some of which wounded him. Deif is able to walk on his own and does not use a wheelchair. He probably has use of both his hands." AninnymouseEditor (talk) 18:13, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Health

@M3ATH: Please restore the information on his health to the lede, considering the lede is a summary of body. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:41, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: As I said in the edit summary, the information on his length is now considered inaccurate after the latest findings of Israeli intelligence. I have kept the information about the state in which his health was presumed to be in the body, and added the new information about the captured footage that proves those assumptions wrong. —M3ATH (See · Say) 12:54, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

@M3ATH: The same Israeli intelligence that failed to anticipate 7 October? They don't prove the assumptions wrong, they prove that they have changed; either case still has to be mentioned in lede; as lede is a summary of body. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:58, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss:I mean, the same intelligence that failed to predict 7 October is the same intelligence that had these assumptions in the first place. If you are going to dismiss the notion that he is healthy because Israeli intelligence said that while believing that he isn't in good health, you're contradicting yourself.

As for the point that the lead is a summary of the body, that is true, but saying that he was assumed to be in bad shape without saying that he is now assumed to be in good shape gives a false idea to the reader.

Even though I think this unnecessarily lengthens an already long lead just to say that he's fine, I'll say that we add to the lead the sentence: "It was thought that the assassination attempts had left Deif partially handicapped, but footage gathered by the Israeli military has since shown him in a significantly better condition." What do you say?

—M3ATH (See · Say) 13:07, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Typo in body of category: "Assassination Attempts"

"In October 2023, during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, Deif's father house was hit by an Israeli airstrike, killing Deif's brother and two other family members. It was unclear whether or not the airstrike targeted Deif."

I believe that this sentence should be changed to:

"In October 2023, during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, Deif's father's house was hit by an Israeli airstrike, killing Deif's brother and two other family members. It was unclear whether or not the airstrike targeted Deif."

I do not have Extended-Confirmed edit permissions, so if someone else could make this change for me, that would be helpful. Thanks!

JohnR1Roberts (talk) 01:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mohammed Deif/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: M3ATH (talk · contribs)

Reviewer: Asilvering (talk · contribs) 22:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, planning to get to this by this weekend. -- asilvering (talk) 22:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

General comments

1. There are no images in this article whatsoever. We may not have a good free image of him himself, but surely a useful free image can be found that is related to the article? -- asilvering (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Please take another run through the article for npov issues; for example, daring and successful raid is not acceptable wikivoice. -- asilvering (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
3. There is a lot of overcitation here to sources of questionable reliability. Many of these sources are simply working off articles by other newsrooms; many articles I checked have no byline. Please try to cut out the churnalism here and stick to the best-quality sources. -- asilvering (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

M3ATH, I think this is a fail in its current state, and that it is sufficiently far from meeting the criteria that a QF could be justified. But I don't think it's an impossible ask to tidy this up within a week, and I know you've been waiting a while for this review, so I'll leave the choice up to you. If you're prepared to do a lot of work on it, I'm happy to keep the review open and see where we can get. -- asilvering (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Mohammed Deif has several wives

Sources: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Bakbik1234 (talk) 18:10, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

User:‏David O. Johnson could you help with this? I have noticed you edit a lot of pages regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Bakbik1234 (talk) 03:15, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Full name

Makeandtoss removed Deif's full name from the lead and infobox while keeping it in the first section. I think the full name should be displayed in the lead and infobox. Any thoughts? Moazfargal (talk) 20:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

There’s no such thing as four parts “full names” in Arabic. Full name is the first name and family name. Adding his father’s and grandfather’s name has no value. Makeandtoss (talk) 20:44, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

As a native Arabic speaker, there are full names in Arabic. And biographical pages like Donald Trump and Joe Biden don't only show the first and family names. Moazfargal (talk) 20:51, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

@Moazfargal: Joe Biden and Donald Trump's names have middle names, which are specific to them, and these are not their father's names. What benefit did readers get from knowing his father and grandfather's name in the first sentence? Makeandtoss (talk) 12:23, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: I mean, it's not that much less than the benefit to readers of Trump's and Biden's middle names, whether or not these middle names aren't father names. In fact, the articles still mention Trump's father name (haven't checked Biden's), albeit not in the first sentence. Therefore, I can understand omitting the "Diab Ibrahim" part from the first sentence, but I still think it should be shown in the infobox. Moazfargal (talk) 13:14, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I have edited the article accordingly. Moazfargal (talk) 14:35, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@Foxhound45: The extended name does not add value to the opening sentence and should be removed, as this had been already discussed and agreed upon. Makeandtoss (talk) 17:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: I only added the middle names because Wikipedia almost always includes them in articles about people. I wasn't trying to cause trouble. My apologies. --Foxhound45 (talk) 19:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Mohamad Deif confirmed dead

I would like to add an edit on mohamad dief death via an Israeli attack I have a lot of confirmed info TKWGwiki (talk) 12:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

If you are referring to the tapes of intercepted eulogies fot the deceased, it is still premature. Though improbable, such things (disinformatsia) can be staged to secure a targeted person from further attempts on their life.Nishidani (talk) 13:02, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

The idf head of communications did confirm his death TKWGwiki (talk) 03:17, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Left guide (talk) 14:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

https://www.now14.co.il/%D7%9C%D7%90%D7%97%D7%A8-%D7%A2%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%A9%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A9%D7%9C-%D7%9E%D7%A6%D7%95%D7%93-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%91%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%A2/ TKWGwiki (talk) 03:18, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 July 2024

Deif is dead! 2603:300A:1D9D:2000:AFFB:E531:3FCF:31B4 (talk) 21:10, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jamedeus (talk) 21:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Mohamad deif is dead

Mohamad deif is dead i would like to have edit premmission to add all needed info

Sources:

https://www.srugim.co.il/1018810-%D7%93%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A8-%D7%A6%D7%94%D7%9C-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%A9%D7%A8-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%93-%D7%93%D7%A3-%D7%97%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%9C

https://mobile.mako.co.il/pzm-soldiers/Article-1716c78b515d091026.htm

It is in hebrew do to the assassination being done by the IAF of the IDF TKWGwiki (talk) 15:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Why does it say he died in Lebanon? I thought gaza?

Why does it say he died in Lebanon? I thought gaza?

also the AP confirmed it

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-war-mohammed-deif-9524d7d5c8f7321f4d8c931fde664556 2A06:C701:44C0:DC00:98C4:F5AC:EE18:6624 (talk) 09:12, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Again, “Israel says”. It’s a claim The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Was just about to bring this up. The strike was in Khan Younis. There is no evidence from any sources whatsoever to suggest he died (assuming he did) in Lebanon. HawkScholar (talk) 09:22, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I cannot edit as of the 1RR file. His “death” is strictly based on Israeli claims, and the article should be edited to reflect that accordingly The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

See above section. Selfstudier (talk) 09:33, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request: Add the IDF's Photo of Mohammed Deif

• What I think should be changed: Add a photo of Mohammed Deif above the infobox, using the photos released by the IDF, cited by reliable sources such as Ynet. See photos such as this one, this one and this one.
• Why it should be changed: The article is currently lacking a photo. This issue has been discussed in the Talk page. Adding a photo would help advance the article and provide a visual context for readers.
• References supporting the possible change: See this article by Ynet News (English site), where the photo links have been taken from.

Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 11:05, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

References

 Not done for now: We either need a freely-licensed image (which those are not) or an appropriate non-free use rationale. The first option is preferred, and the second option has a related open discussion at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 71#Mohammed Deif; further discussion should go there for now. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 02:41, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

IDF confirmation

IDF has just officially confirmed that Mohammed Deif was killed two and a half weeks ago in Khan Younis.

Hebrew source: https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s1xnvjquc ZeroByter (talk) 08:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

It’s more or less idf saying “we said so”. The evidence that he was in that place, let alone killed is not enough and should be treated as a claim. Hamas officially denies his killing (and note that they did admit haniye’s assassination even before the IDF commented on it, so this denial should be acknowledged) The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:07, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

They say its based on an "intelligence assessment" (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/08/01/world/israel-hamas-iran-haniyeh-gaza). Since that's not DNA and Hamas have yet to confirm, I don't think we can say as a fact that Deif is dead. Selfstudier (talk) 09:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

That is also what I am trying to say too. Hamas officially denies his targeting let alone killing, and explaining in other sections with how they have admitted high ranking officials (most recently haniye) being assassinated this denial should at least be acknowledged The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:34, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

According to WAPO, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/08/01/israel-hamas-war-iran-haniyeh-hezbollah-news/#link-RHGL44VMYBCTJILVMXFRLXDTOU

"A Hamas spokesperson said Thursday that confirming or denying the death of any of its leaders "is a matter for the leadership" of Hamas’s military wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades. "It is not possible to confirm any of the published news," Izzat al-Rishq said in a statement shortly after Israel announced it killed Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif." Selfstudier (talk) 11:29, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

To be fair to the IDF, Hamas would have been unable to hide the death of Haniyeh because he was killed in Iran. Hamas has a reason to hide the deaths of Deif and Marwan Issa. Very similar to how al-Qaeda never confirmed the death of Ayman al-Zawahiri. --Foxhound45 (talk) 11:34, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, you are assuming that the IDF never tells porkies, which we know not to be the case. You say Hamas has a reason to hide the deaths, is that just your personal opinion or do you have a source saying that? Selfstudier (talk) 11:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

If Al-Qaeda never confirmed the death of Ayman al-Zawahiri why did they announced a new leader?! Aminabzz (talk) 18:58, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Your point of view is extremely biased. IDF and Hamas are not on the same level. Hamas is a terror group designated by EU, UK and USA. I'd quite trust the IDF over them, sorry (and they are not even denying what IDF said). --Folengo (talk) 12:16, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Here's my source. https://x.com/JoeTruzman/status/1812132824767742162 --Foxhound45 (talk) 12:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

That's 13 July. Selfstudier (talk) 12:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

And it finishes up "Deif and Salameh, or one of the two, maybe dead,...." Selfstudier (talk) 12:28, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

X (formerly Twitter) isn't a reliable source. Aminabzz (talk) 18:55, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

If the IDF or Hamas told me it was raining outside, I'd check. Selfstudier (talk) 12:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I know that's July 13. What Joe Truzman said about Hamas hiding the deaths of their commanders is still true. Believe what you want.--Foxhound45 (talk) 12:43, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Not a question of what I believe, the question is what should the article say. I can bring sources showing the IDF telling lies if you like and you can believe or not, too. Selfstudier (talk) 12:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Grammar edit

In the paragraph regarding his designation as a terrorist by the EU, the last two words are repeated.

Cronch112 (talk) 23:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

These kind of mistakes don't need to be discussed in the Talk pages. Just edit the grammatical error and provide an explanation in the end if needed Aminabzz (talk) 19:01, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Is the goal to misinform?

This article clearly misinforms. The man is dead and there is no reason to think otherwise. All the evidence exists, you just deny it.

Articles like this are simply destroying the credibility of wikipedia. 2A0D:6FC0:B24:E300:9EA7:3FC:26EE:A31F (talk) 21:28, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Arabic source?

Why is source 6 allowed if it is in Arabic?

Sources should be in the langauge of the page. 2A0D:6FC0:B24:E300:9EA7:3FC:26EE:A31F (talk) 21:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Nothing at Wikipedia mandates this; a source can be written in any language. Nythar (💬-🍀) 03:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

If you want to read it, Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge both have built-in translation for Arabic, it sometimes makes errors, but it's readable and gives you most of the story. FourPi (talk) 16:32, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Osama hamdan “confirmed”

He didn’t confirm anything, he is lying saying Deif is alive even though he is dead. Hamas has died Marwan issa’s death as well even though he is dead and America and Israel have confirmed it so change this Kwabat5 (talk) 00:16, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Mohammed deif’s death is disputed, and it’s best we wait until the war ends and see if it is true. As for Marwan Issa, they have not denied his assassination so there is no dispute or challenge to the Israeli claim The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 10:07, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Hamas have confirmed only about a dozens deaths of militants and leaders in the whole war, In Gaza it's just Haniyeh's sons and police? Deif is the only one they only they have directly claimed is alive? FourPi (talk) 01:36, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

But I do think we should say clearly that it is disputed, in the info box and maybe the last line of the intro (too much to explain in the first line), and that there was an attempt last month, including a short realistic description of the event. Not a long one, we can link the page, and say "see below", but date + 90 killed + IDF and Hamas disagree about whether one of killed was Deif. Without that, people do trust wiki less, and also end up believing it was genuinely a "targeted strike" with "surgical" precision, as the IDF claim. FourPi (talk) 01:38, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Change it back to was

change it to was and include a death sub section you can add a marker that it is disputed by hamas but Osama hamdan lies all the time Kwabat5 (talk) 02:51, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

The sub section is in the assassination attempts area The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 03:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

ok but in the first sentence why is it "is" not was or even "was or is" why is everything hamas says, the lying terrorist organization true but israel is false? Kwabat5 (talk) 23:12, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Refer to the previous topic, to see why this dispute surrounds him and not other leaders assassinated such as Marwan Issa and Ismael haniye The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 11:36, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Description of Mohammed Deif

In the first paragraph of the main article Mohammed Deif is described as a "militant". This is BBC language. He is/was a terrorist and should be described as such. His al-Qassam Brigades were nothing other than a terrorist group. Dori1951 (talk) 13:23, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done, see MOS:TERRORIST. - Ïvana (talk) 19:10, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

You can also take a look at One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 14:23, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Why is Hamas’ claims of him being alive given more weight than the IDF’s assertions he’s dead?

Hamas is a terrorist group that has nothing to gain by confirming his death. It will only hurt their morale. On the other hand, the IDF’s intelligence confirming Deif was eliminated in the strike seems pretty well supported. For what it’s worth, Hamas hasn’t confirmed Marwan Issa’s death either but that’s still confirmed according to Wikipedia. So why the double standard for Deif? 2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D (talk) 11:41, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Because it's Wikipedia. It's not supposed to make sense. 2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD (talk) 21:42, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

So true. 2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (talk) 04:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Hamas admitted it.

No reason for this discussion to continue.

Citation: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-now-accepts-israel-killed-muhammad-deif-has-arrested-2-people-sources-tell-paper/

LesbianTiamat (She/Her) (troll/pester) 17:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Awesome work, @LesbianTiamat. Thank you. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 19:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

When the idf can show us his body, and his exact picture at the moment they dropped a one-tonne bomb in an area where civilians were sheltering in tents then we can talk The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 12:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

His body was blown to smithereens, so it won't be showed. It would be much easier for Hamas to diffuse an audio or video proving he is alive, no? --160.78.149.35 (talk) 15:56, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Israel is the accuser. The burden of proof is on them. Their silly infographics won’t work and have numerous times proven to be false The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 17:06, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

As always, history repeats itself! The article mentions how Israel claimed Deif was assasinated in 2014, which was disproven in 2015... I just think it will take time for Deif to be confirmed alive Deus vult fratres! (talk) 22:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

The article currently states:

In August 2014, during the 2014 Gaza War, the Israeli air force attempted to assassinate him with an airstrike on the Deif family home in Sheikh Radwan in Gaza City. Hamas denied that Deif was killed, and his survival was confirmed by Israeli intelligence in 2015.

If Israel falsely claimed that Deif was assassinated, that should definitely be explicitly stated Jesse Flynn (pseudonym) (talk) 02:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Weird, I think I didn't read this on Wikipedia ... or that the article was edited Deus vult fratres! (talk) 18:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I love how you felt the need to bring up the civilians as though it's relevant to this too, lmao. Yeah you're not biased at all, Mule 2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (talk) 16:34, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Maybe because the people bombed were civilians? I don’t know, maybe where you’re at you’re taught Palestinians are animals that can be slaughtered in any number and not actual human beings. My bias (more like common sense really) doesn’t matter here The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 17:06, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Riiiiiight. Well, I won't say more since apparently your outrageous bias and false accusations are allowed here but responses to it get deleted, so I'll just wish you luck with that BS, Mule. 2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (talk) 01:08, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I fixed it by writing into the infobox details about his death with the parenthetical statement that it's disputed by Hamas. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 18:24, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

FWIW Al-Arabiya has for a couple weeks had a report citing a "Hamas source" as having confirmed Deif's death. This would support your approach. PrimaPrime (talk) 16:31, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

This sequence of edits (along with the edit summary) seems to establish a new standard that unless Hamas officially confirms the death of its leaders, Wikipedia will not use other references that do confirm a death. I would think that would be a gross violation of WP:NPOV? The Mountain of Eden (talk) 01:49, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

I am not a participant in that sequence, however for example leaders which Hamas did not confirm the assassination of are still listed as killed (most notably Marwan Issa, Hamas did not confirm his death).

the reason Mohammad deif’s “assassination” is so controversial is that there are two parties involved already clashing with each other on wether he was killed, the lack of conclusive evidence of this supposed assassination and most controversially the manner of this “assassination” where 90 civilians were killed because Israel dropped several 1-tonne bombs (gladly supplied by America) over areas where civilians were sheltering The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 11:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Per edit summary in this edit, Deif will continue to be shown on Wikipedia as alive until 2080, unless Hamas confirms his death before that.
But it may be possible that we could shave 6 years off of that, allowing Wikipedia to show Deif as dead as soon as 2074. The IDF obviously has evidence that Deif is dead, otherwise they wouldn't confirm his death — they would continue to put him on their most wanted list. As far as I understand, all military secrets in Israel are declassified after 50 years, so the evidence may be declassified in 2074 (but there may be a mechanism to extend the classifications of certain classified material by another 25 years, I'm not really sure).

Until then, let Deif live his life on Wikipedia. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 23:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

When the sole party alleging to have “assassinated” him has a track record of lying when they Bomb civilians and claim to target individual militants, then the thing someone with common sense would do is to treat their allegations as nothing more than allegations The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 05:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Take a look at the FAQ for a more detailed analysis. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 19:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)