Talk:Ludwig van Beethoven the Elder

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On 6 August 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Ludwig van Beethoven (1712–1773) to Ludwig van Beethoven the Elder. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 6 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 05:13, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ludwig van Beethoven (1712–1773) → Ludwig van Beethoven the Elder – I think this would be a better disambiguator to distinguish him from his grandson given not all readers will recognize that 1712 is not the younger Ludwig's birth year (turns out we don't even know his birth year which I didn't know until looking it up just now) and that could lead to accidental clicks leading to the wrong page. "The Elder" is also terminology used consistently through the article to refer to its subject. Ludovicus van Beethoven may also be a good option as it is the name most frequently used in the article's sources. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 00:55, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes In ictu oculi (talk) 10:29, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move, per In ictu oculi. History6042 (talk) 12:40, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Good use of WP:NATURAL disambiguation. estar8806 (talk) ★ 15:47, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"vam": explain a removal

Someone put in a fluent-speech pronunciation of "van Beethoven", in which the /n/ of van is assimilated to the following [b], yielding [m]. There is also a footnote explaining that the normal isolation pronunciation of "van" has [n].

This seems just too much detail to me. A normal, reasonable reader would be contented to be told that van is pronounced with an [n].

In support of this I give here a reference saying that it's perfectly possible to say [n] before a [b]; the assimilation is not obligatory:

https://pure.mpg.de/rest/items/item_77073/component/file_77074/content

Reference sources normally give the careful, canonical variant of a pronunciation, and don't go into the casual-speech variants. So I have removed this material. It would be helpful, however, to add nasal place assimilation to Dutch phonology.

Opus33 (talk) 16:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]