Talk:Legal status of fictional pornography depicting minors

Legal status of fictional pornography depicting minors was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

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March 18, 2009	Good article nominee	Not listed

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This article was nominated for merging with cartoon pornography on 10 February 2011. The result of the discussion was no consensus, no merger.

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On 19 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Legal status of fictional child pornography. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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United States grey area vs. illegal

Particularly in the "cases" subsection, it appears to me that "virtual child pornography" is illegal, at least federally, in the U.S. I would move the U.S. from "grey area" to the "illegal" section. Arguments against? Al Begamut (talk) 16:21, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a grey area because per the Ashcroft ruling, such content is not automatically illegal (it is not legally CSEM) but must be found obscene to be legal. There conceivably might be content that is found to be not obscene. Sandtalon (talk) 20:10, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sandtalon: In my opinion, this list should be redirected to Legality of child pornography as there is sourced information there which conflicts with information given here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:51, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which information is conflicting? It's always possible to update the article. I think it's useful to have a dedicated page to elaborate on the issue, which the other page provides in condensed summary form. Sandtalon (talk) 19:16, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But the article is about virtual child pornography; it, per se, will always be obscene (actually this depends of course on "local community standards" but), and therefore virtual CP is always illegal in the US. ? Al Begamut (talk) 21:20, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that simply the content needing a "case-by-case" review of the Miller Test is not enough to make it a "gray area".

Other laws in the Gray Area category have "It could be", "Photorealistic", "Could be mistaken for", generally exceptions or nebulous wording that leads it into question.

There is no such question for the US law, it is very certain and unquestionable about it's message.

The US law should be moved into the Illegal category, but I do like the idea of preserving the history of the law somewhere. MagiTagi (talk) 04:20, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mexican law interpretation

In the case of Mexico, I oppose the current interpretation of the law in the referenced article[1] utilized as source for the entry Legal status of fictional pornography depicting minors#Mexico in which the subject makes use of the incorrect translation of the word "simulados" which translates to "pretend" as an incorrect "fictional" definition, the truthful interpretation with the right translation only condemns, in addition to real acts, an act of pretending with human individuals bearer of rights, where real life is the context of real and pretend and both crimes involve abuse of a real life victim.

There is no mention of fictional media, because it is not taken into consideration in the application of the law, and it is already protected under freedom of ideas (which is not the same as freedom of expression of the first amendment) which guarantees our individual rights to information in any shape or form [2] [3] [4]

While this does not actually change the actual legal situation and has no weight on court, it gives an erroneous impression of the country's legal status regarding pornographic media. Bunny Cinnamony (talk) 03:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Italy must be updated. It should be considered Legal or Grey area at least.

2 court rulings (the most recent one is dated 2021) have noticed the double standard between fictional and real child pornography and stated that either fictional child pornography have the same punishment of real child pornography or either the crime of consuming fictional child pornography does not amount to a criminal act and seeing it as such with this particular double standard may suggest a flawed justice system.

The more detailed explaination of the sentence here:

https://www.penaledp.it/il-concorso-tra-pedopornografia-reale-e-virtuale-una-recente-sentenza-del-gup-di-palermo-applica-il-ne-bis-in-idem/

Even the senteces where fictional child pornography was deemed a potential crime they states that the fictional content displayed should be almost undistinguishable or potentially mistakable for a real photograph (and this from a court ruling of 2017)

http://www.salvisjuribus.it/la-giurisprudenza-alle-prese-con-lo-spinoso-reato-di-pedopornografia-virtuale-si-vuole-punire-il-fatto-o-lautore/

Because of that, i would advise to edit italy in legal or grey area at least. Veracnas (talk) 10:58, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like it depends on if the content is indistinguishable from reality, this'd put it near other laws in the Gray area that say the same thing.

Vera is correct here. MagiTagi (talk) 15:27, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) v/r - Seawolf35 ^T--C 16:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Legal status of fictional pornography depicting minors → Legal status of fictional child pornography – I am making a move request as User:EggRoll97 has reverted my move using with the basis of WP:RMUM.

According to WP:RMUM; Autoconfirmed editors may move a page without discussion if all of the following apply: No article exists at the new target title; 'There has been no previous discussion about the title of the page that expressed any objection to a new title; and It seems unlikely that anyone would reasonably disagree with the move.' & 'If you disagree with a prior bold move, and the new title has not been in place for a long time, you may revert the move yourself.'

My move was done on the basis of WP:CONCISE & WP:PRECISE, as 'child pornography' is much shorter and more concise than 'pornography depicting minors', & the page for Child pornography is not titled 'Pornography depicting minors', or maybe rename it to 'Legal status of simulated child pornography', To fit with the aforementioned article.

Why would you object to this? Formerlychucks (talk) 11:35, 19 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 16:37, 28 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 11:25, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The requested move has been reformatted to be an actual RM instead of a talk page discussion. For verification, the user's original post can be found here under "Article should be moved to 'Legal status of fictional child pornography'". EggRoll97 ^(talk) 01:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, i didn't know how to do it myself, i also apologize for seeming confrontational. Formerlychucks (talk) 20:43, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Pedophilia Article Watch, WikiProject Pornography, and WikiProject Law have been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 11:25, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move per WP:CONSISTENT with Legality of child pornography and Child pornography. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:52, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - A descriptive and more neutral title. It does not have to be consistent since it is not about the same topic. --User82828 (talk) 08:09, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Legality of Chile

The section of Chile's law should be edited, as it was updated in 2011, regarding this subject.

According to this study, it seems the possession of fictional/drawn forms is legally unclear.

https://repositorio.uchile.cl/bitstream/handle/2250/146472/An%C3%A1lisis-jurisprudencial-de-los-delitos-de-producci%C3%B3n-adquisici%C3%B3n-o-almacenamiento-de-material-pornogr%C3%A1fico-infantil-y-relaciones-concursales.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y 2804:14C:65C1:4F0E:1984:9BFA:A0E3:B11B (talk) 06:55, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]