Talk:Khuzestani Arabs

Ahwazi Arabs edits

Please do not just remove reliably cited content because it doesn't confirm your Persian racism. The info you removed is from a book by Greenwood Publishing, a highly reliable source. So your "Unreliable" claim is false. In this case we have different info from different reliable sources, so an objective person includes both versions — not remove one for subjective reasons. Good day to you.39.110.61.66 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:43, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Who is this guy James Minahan? Can't find anything about him. And how did he get his numbers? How could Iran have an Arab population of 3,460,000 in 2002? And why does other newer and reliable studies such as this one show very different numbers? And "Encyclopedia of the Stateless Nations: A-C"? A politically-motivated book, looks like the author is trying to create a state for every single ethnic group on earth. And watch your words, I strongly advice you to stop saying things like "your Persian racism" against other editors. -- Mazandar (talk) 06:11, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Please do not use diversionary tactics. I clearly stated the reason i saw that info as reliable was because it was published by a reliable publisher: Greenwood Publishing Group. Could you tell me whether you think this publisher is reliable? It doesn't matter about what you personally think of Minahan, how he got his numbers, or your personal claim that his book is "politically-motivated". A reliable publisher has accepted publishing his book. Also, i repeat, it is not uncommon to have articles on wiki where wildly different figures are given for particular ethnic groups. As long as reliable sources are used then differences are allowed and should be fully expressed. But you insist on only allowing a population figure that sits on the lower end of the spectrum. That is subjective and unacceptable. Unless you can prove that Greenwood Publishing Group is unreliable you have no argument from which to erase my info. Good day.36.81.110.136 (talk) 22:46, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't make it reliable. The author should also be credible. Brenda Shaffer also wrote a similar politically-motivated book which is published by a reliable publication, does that make it reliable? No. Actually it matters how did he get his numbers. Otherwise it's unreliable since the author can't invent numbers. Did he conduct an independent census in Iran? That book is from 2002, newer and more reliable studies show much smaller number. How could Ahvaz have a population of 3,460,000 in 2002? Even now the population of the city is 1,112,021. BTW, I ask @HistoryofIran: and @LouisAragon: to comment on this matter. And do not engage in an edit war. -- Mazandar (talk) 07:08, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

I'll ask again: could you tell me whether you think Greenwood Publishing Group is a reliable publisher? Yes or no? To answer your points above: 1. if the publisher is reliable then they would be expected to publish the works of a credible author. Brenda Shaffer is reliable and is a scholar so i don't know why you targeted her other than the fact that she is an Israeli and has written on Azeris that would offend nationalist Persians like yourself. 2. again, stop diverting from the issue of reliability based upon the publisher by raising such issues as where Minahan got his numbers. Can you tell me where the Library of Congress got their number? Yes or no? 3. Ahvaz is a city in Khuzestan Province; Khuzestan Province has a 2011 population of 4,531,720. So what the hell are you talking about Minahan's estimate?! Again, with your diversionary tactics and non-sensical arguments you are merely exposing your subjective agenda driven by Persian nationalism. Please stop and accept that we can have multiple population estimates for particular ethnic groups on wiki. We do not need to be stubborn in insisting only one — smaller — estimate is acceptable. Good day. 39.114.6.88 (talk) 05:27, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

You don't understand, and I already answered you enough. What you have is an outdated source from 2002, published by a non-credible author, about whom I can't find anything. Even if he was a credible author, the book is still outdated. Whether the publisher is reliable or not is completely irrelevant here again because the book is outdated. And stop your personal attacks if you are eager to reach a consensus. There are newer and more reliable censuses which contradict to your so-called reliable source. Yes, we can of course include multiple numbers, but we only include new and reliable sources. Even if the number of Arabs was 3,460,000 in 2002 (!), things have changed much since then. In 1997, the population of Khorasani Turks was estimated at about 2 million, nowadays, this language is classified as an "endangered language" by UNESCO with no more than 200,000 speakers. And finally, which scholars have cited Minahan's numbers in their peer-reviewed works? That says a lot. If you still believe that book should be cited in the article, create an account, and ask third opinion from uninvolved editors. -- Mazandar (talk) 10:09, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

You already answered me enough? I only asked you 2 questions requiring a simple yes or no answer. To respond to your points: 1. "outdated source from 2002": assuming it is outdated (which isn't the issue anyway), if the edit mentions that this was the estimate in 2002 then i see nothing wrong with that. Plenty of articles mention populations of ethnic groups as they were in years long gone. 2. "a non-credible author": that is your subjective opinion of Minahan driven by your ulterior motive to suppress any stats that don't abide with your Persian racism. 3. "Yes, we can of course include multiple numbers, but we only include new and reliable sources": again you are using sly diversionary tactics. As i showed in point 1, there is plenty of precedent on Wiki where past population estimates are provided as long as they are specified as being for a particular year in the past. 4. "In 1997, the population of Khorasani Turks was estimated at about 2 million, nowadays, this language is classified as an "endangered language" by UNESCO with no more than 200,000 speakers." Are you on drugs? Your defenses/arguments are getting more desperate and nonsensical with every new post. Are you saying that because only 200,000 speakers of Khorasani Turkish exist that means there are only 200,000 Khorasani Turks, as opposed to the actual 2 million? 5. "And finally, which scholars have cited Minahan's numbers in their peer-reviewed works? That says a lot." That says nothing. You are merely engaging in conjecture, yet again, to excuse your subjective agenda. Just accept that a reliable publisher has published the info provided by Minahan. There is no need to be so obstinate when all sources and info can be safely accomodated. Good day.39.114.6.88 (talk) 09:55, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Your "source" is garbage, it's nothing more than an inflated figure stated by some two-bit author, but of course you arab supremacists latch on to it to inflate the number of arabs in Khuzestan. I have been to Khuzestan and even have family over there, for one the city of Ahvaz itself is barely majority arab thanks to immigration from the rest of Iran, and secondly the entire countryside north and east of Ahvaz is Lur and Bakhtiari, who account for about half of the entire province's population on their own. And since you're invariably going to complain that I'm not providing sources, here are several that show that the total number of arabs in Iran (the whole of Iran, not even just Khuzestan) is below 1.6 million people:

https://www.ethnologue.com/country/IR/status

https://imgur.com/a/9YmGJ

https://imgur.com/a/RVvqd

http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT%20Iran%20Survey%20Report.pdf

The last link was a poll conducted by an American organization, which is far more credible a source than the unscientifically supported "source" that you pulled out of your.....well I don't need to say it.

WP on reliable sources

Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources says under Definition of a source "Reliable sources may be published materials with a reliable publication process, authors who are regarded as authoritative in relation to the subject, or both. These qualifications should be demonstrable to other people." Now, Greenwood Publishing Group is "an educational and academic publisher" so it publishes materials with a reliable publication process. So the attacks on the author, Minahan, are irrelevant and i am vindicated for my comments above. Good day. 211.214.37.186 (talk) 02:24, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Mazandar, you said in your edit summary for reversion: you "have been reverted by two established editors, the reason for not including this biased source is already explained to you, cite a reliable source". I would like to respond: 1. You and your friend, HistoryofIran, are established pro-Persian editors. Your edit histories clearly show a dedicated pro-Persian agenda. This is also why youse religiously seek to suppress any numbers of Ahwazi Arabs that youse deem to be too high for your sensitivities. 2. By citing WP i have shown that the Minahan info is coming from a reliable source. You and your partner in crime, on the other hand, have not countered my WP argument but have instead resorted to just baselessly reverting info that doesn't abide with your inherent racism. Respond to the WP or stop reverting like the insecure ethnocentrist that you appear to be. Good day. 220.219.243.144 (talk) 23:21, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 21 May 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Result:
Moved per consensus garnered below. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; good health to all! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 02:22, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

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Ahwazi Arabs → Khuzestani Arabs – Academic sources use the latter term while the former is an ethno-nationalist term. A few scholarly sources using 'Khuzestani Arabs':

• Lucas, Christopher; Manfredi, Stefano, eds. (2020), Arabic and contact-induced change, Language Science Press, ISBN 978-3-96110-251-8
• Elling, Rasmus Christian (2013), Minorities in Iran: Nationalism and Ethnicity after Khomeini, Palgrave Macmillan US, doi:10.1057/9781137069795, ISBN 978-1-137-06979-5
• Hajjej, Abdelhafidh; Almawi, Wassim Y.; Arnaiz-Villena, Antonio; Hattab, Lasmar; Hmida, Slama (2018), "The genetic heterogeneity of Arab populations as inferred from HLA genes", PLOS One, 13 (3), doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0192269{{citation}}: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
• Farjadian, Shirin; Ghaderi, Abbas (2007), "HLA class II genetic diversity in Arabs and Jews of Iran", Iranian Journal of Immunology, 4 (2), PMID 17652848

—Pahlevun (talk) 17:44, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMON NAME. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:07, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Srnec (talk) 17:57, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC)