Talk:Kashmiri diaspora

Who are Kashmiris?

I guess this issue needs discussion. As far as I can see, there are two groups of people laying claim to the "Kashmiri" label:

• The valley Kashmiris, whose land is traditionally "Kashmir", whose language is "Kashmiri" and whose ethnicity is "Kashmiri".
• The people of AJK, who, for some unknown reason, started calling themselves Kashmiris. It is not clear when they started doing so and why.

The scholars now understand there is a problem. Christopher Snedden, for example, used the term "J&Kites" in his book to avoid confusion. He also points out that Mirpuris and Poonchis could call themselves "Jammuites" and "Azadi-ites". I have suggested in the past "Azad Kashmiris" as a perfectly fine label for them.

If anybody knows any better about what is going on, I would love to be enlightened. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:30, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, the book by Christopher Snedden perfectly describes and summarises this. I am also a bit confused why there is so much usage of the word "Mirpuri" to contrast with the ethnic Kashmiris of the Kashmir valley, like in British Pakistanis, British Mirpuris or Mirpuri diaspora. I am myself from the United Kingdom and the vast majority of Azad Kashmiris in Britain are not only from the Mirpur district, nor it is an ethnic identity here. It makes no sense to refer a community hailing from a certain region by only a minuscule district it. I also think "Azad Kashmiris" is the perfect label, and the British Mirpuris or Mirpuri diaspora articles can be renamed to British Azad Kashmiris or Azad Kashmiri diaspora, with this text British Mirpuris#Identity included in it to avoid confusion and state the ethnic identity of the majority of the population.

There is also another page Pahari people (Kashmir), which is even more appropriate than the word "Mirpuri", and maybe we can also get help from this article:

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/st-recognition-set-to-give-paharis-a-fillip-452989

"Ironically, much of the work on the Pahari language has taken place in the UK, a place where sizeable diaspora with direct links to PoK resides. Apart from diaspora with origins from Gujarat and Punjab, one of the largest South-Asian communities in the UK is the Pahari-speaking population and their descendants. The migration to the UK, particularly in the cities of Birmingham, Luton, Leicester and Bradford, has continued for over a century in different phases. The migration took place significantly from Mirpur, which was followed by Kotli and even some areas of Rawalakot in PoK.

According to the estimates provided to this author by community leaders from the diaspora, at least 80 per cent of those who are considered Pakistani-origin British citizens are actually Pahari speakers or have Pahari origins. They are represented in all walks of British society today, including the British Parliament and even the England cricket team. The recent T20 World Cup winner, England, has two team members (Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid) with a direct connection to Mirpur. A vast chunk of the diaspora has tried to carve out an identity on the basis of Pahari, a language spoken in the region, in sharp contrast to Pakistani Punjabi." Jamal047 (talk) 18:20, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

References

Few points that come to my mind:

• Creation of bogus ethnic and nation identities such "Punjabis, Punjabi Muslims, Hindkowans, Paharis, etc" is common. People seem not to be well informed about this stuff, mislabeling is very common.

• Kashmiri nationalism promoted by a bunch of parties working in AJK, especially student parties. In order to make the so called "Kashmir" that existed as a "Princely State" work, they need a common identity for the entire region, hence the popularity of the "Kashmiri identity" in AJ&K over the past few decades.

• It should be noted that Kashmiris do exist in AJ&K, though only about 5-8% of the over all population, just as the valley does have ethnic Gujjar, bakarwal, etc populations. Kashmiris also live in Poonch, Rajauri, Doda, Kistwar on the Indian side. So there is some genuine Kashmiri identity in AJ&K. Wasiq 9320 (talk) 13:10, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Kashmiri is a term used to describe a citizen of the State of Jammu Kashmir as it existed until 22 October 1947, just as the State as a whole is generally referred to as Kashmir.

Syed Touseef Gilani (talk) 20:53, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

In addition to my response above, the use of word 'Azad' is political, as the State remains an occupied territory.

Syed Touseef Gilani (talk) 20:55, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Fabricated information

This article is almost entirely incorrect. It's not even misleading or controversial, most of the things stated are completely fabricated and a quick can confirm this. Syed Touseef Gilani (talk) 11:05, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Content

@Kautilya3: You are partially incorrect. Most of the sources and part of the content over at Kashmiris in Azad Kashmir was never published on this page at any point whatsoever. Mar4d (talk) 09:31, 21 October 2020 (UTC)