Talk:James Marriott (musician)

Assistance with page development

Hey Launchballer, was wondering if you could offer me any help with developing this page? I've seen your work on some of my favourite artist's pages including piri and Jax Jones and loved your work! James recently charted in the UK Album chart so that is why I have started a page and was wondering if you fancy helping me get it up to standard. Thank you! George (talk) 16:53, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

oh yeah, and could we possibly get it indexed too? thanks!! George (talk) 20:24, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I really am sorry to keep you waiting for so long; the DYK section, where I do much of my editing, has been very busy. A few things stuck out; lead sections should be a summary of the rest of the article and shouldn't contain content not in the body; subscriber counts are dynamic lists and require a secondary source (and preferably a timestamp, piri hasn't had 419,000 TikTok subscribers since last year); influences should really be in their own section as well and most of the personal life section is early life and should be part of the career section and the bit that's left should either be with Artistry or timestamped within the career section; I'm leaning towards saying that the first sentence should be truncated at 'musician', because that's what he appears to best known for, though I haven't done that much googling and I could be wrong on that. I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'indexed' as the article seems to be categorised, but I plan on doing some work on this myself. (And I haven't done that much work on the Jax Jones article; I created a short stub, which was prodded and then deleted, and then overwritten, virtually none of my contributions remain in the history.)--Launchballer 17:09, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oh, on Google! Unfortunately, they're a law unto themselves; some articles appear within seconds, while others take a bit longer (George Daniel took three days). It doesn't help that this isn't currently linked from any mainspace articles.--Launchballer 10:40, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Georgeykiwi: I've just done some work on this.--Launchballer 17:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Wow! The article looks great. Thanks for all that feedback too, I'll make sure to take that on board :) Also, no worries about the indexing, I think I saw something about it having to be 'patrolled'? I got sent this page: Wikipedia:Controlling search engine indexing. Really appreciate your help with the article! George (talk) 19:12, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

New one on me this, but it would appear that this needs either 90 days to elapse or someone with the 'new pages patroller' right to mark it as patrolled or edit the article. I can't do that as I don't have the right, and I suspect I wouldn't get it as I don't do much vandal-fighting.--Launchballer 12:28, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Has been indexed now which is great! Should we potentially attempt to get this top good article level? This is the first article that I've largely contributed to so would be cool! I recon its possible with the amount of sources he has, I've tried to add as much as I can in the last few days :) George (talk) 15:08, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Please forgive the late reply. WP:GA is an area I'm less familiar with, as I have only one article. However, there are a fair few sources I would not use personally; Sportskeeda is considered generally unreliable at the perennial reliable sources list, the Daily Mirror and Dexerto are tabloids and probably shouldn't be used in biographies of living people, and I'd be prepared to justify use of Twitter/YouTube (see WP:ABOUTSELF). I'd also look for a source that says the loophole was definitely fixed. Certainly worth nominating though.--Launchballer 13:40, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Have removed those three sources! ive also created a separate section for primary sources which is the better way of formatting it! I think i'll nominate it if you recon thats all thats wrong with it :) George (talk) 21:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

That isn't all of them, and I wouldn't separate them anyway. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but per WP:BLP primary sources should really only be used for uncontroversial claims (like middle name, birth date etc.); much of the social media section shouldn't actually be there.--Launchballer 23:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer i've made sure that all of the primary sources are essentially cold hard proof of what i've written so they shouldn't be an issue hopefully? (most of them are just uncontroversial claims) would you mind helping me adapt / change the stuff that shouldn't be there & give me an idea so i can help? thanks :) George (talk) 04:59, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, but there's also the issue of it constituting due weight if no other sources have talked about it.--Launchballer 10:24, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PrimalMustelid talk 17:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the British indie rock musician James Marriott played the title role in Oliver! and Bugsy Malone as a youngster? Source: https://www.volatileweekly.com/p/interview-james-marriott
  • ALT1: ... that prior to charting on the UK Albums Chart with Are We There Yet?, the indie rock musician James Marriott had made a career of "taking the piss out of other YouTubers' music"? Source: https://readdork.com/features/james-marriott-feature-august-23/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Richard Twine (sociologist)

Created by Georgeykiwi (talk) and Launchballer (talk). Nominated by Launchballer (talk) at 11:04, 27 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/James Marriott (musician); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article is new and long enough. Passes earwig, no close paraphrasing was found, and the hook is interesting, cited inline, and verified. I do prefer the main hook, over the alt. Very minor comment, matter of preference I guess over use of youngster, I suggest maybe as a child or as a student, since this appears to be a school production. Pseud 14 (talk) 00:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

ALT2: ... that the British indie rock musician James Marriott played the title role in Oliver! and Bugsy Malone as a child?--Launchballer 04:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

• This reads well IMO, so approving. Pseud 14 (talk) 15:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Pseud 14: The Oliver! and Bugsy Malone bits were taken out of the article as trivia. Is ALT1 acceptable, or should I propose an ALT?--Launchballer 03:40, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I cannot find the information about Oliver and Bugsy in our article. Lightburst (talk) 03:54, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Reinstated.--Launchballer 09:23, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that the British indie rock musician James Marriott cites inspiration from video game music?--Launchballer 09:47, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

• Are we seriously discussing putting someone's role in school play on the main page? Last I checked "interesting" was still a criterion for DYK. The original version of this article written by Georgeykiwi was much better than the current one: Launchballer's recent rewrite inflated it with absurds amount of trivial biographic details. I don't know that it's stable enough for DYK at this point. – Joe (talk) 09:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Right, I've left this article alone for a few weeks for various reasons. I see that it appears to have been semi-protected in my absence, and I've taken out a bunch of BLP violations. This should stabilise very soon. I do note that ALT1 was approved, so this could run soon. However, I've just noticed that the album has an article, so should probably be linked, and given that it prima facie passes DYK guidelines, I would like to nominate it as well, using the QPQ 2024 College Football Playoff National Championship.

ALT4: ... that prior to charting on the UK Albums Chart with Are We There Yet?, the indie rock musician James Marriott had made a career of "taking the piss out of other YouTubers' music"? Source: https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/taylor-swift-denies-the-beatles-a-16th-number-1-album-as-1989-taylors-version-smashes/ for chart position, https://readdork.com/features/james-marriott-feature-august-23/ for quote--Launchballer 13:06, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: Sorry I am just seeing this now, I never got your ping (I realized it was written without an underscore in between). Having said that, perhaps paraphrase Alt4 or tone it down a bit, taking a piss might not be a language we want at the DYK Main Page. I would suggest using making fun of or mocking other YouTubers, or something along those lines. --Pseud 14 (talk) 04:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

ALT5: ... that prior to charting on the UK Albums Chart with Are We There Yet?, the indie rock musician James Marriott had made a career of mocking other YouTubers' music?--Launchballer 07:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Alt5 reads better IMO. I'd probably link to YouTube as well. I will let promoters decide if it needs to be tweaked. Pseud 14 (talk) 13:45, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Also the album should be reviewed as well.--Launchballer 13:47, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

The album was created/moved by Georgeykiwi from draft to the mainspace on Feb 23, well within the 7-day period to nominate as part of the double hook (nominated by Launchballer Mar 1). OK on newness, length, and citations/sourcing. Earwig appears to be at 55.1%, but attributed to a quotation. Pseud 14 (talk) 14:47, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Inclusion of additional band member

During the "Are We There Yet" tour of Europe James's band was joined by Louis Salanson controlling their multitrack but also playing additional guitar and percussion during the set (I was unable to find a written acknowledgement of this but I hope this segment of his live set at KOKO in London suffices). Should he be added to the "Live Members" section? Hanatic (talk) 21:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

You do need a written acknowledgement of it at minimum.--Launchballer 10:26, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Ah okay. That makes things difficult as most acknowledgements I can find are either from James's streams or recordings of his gigs; I'll keep looking. Hanatic (talk) 19:38, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

James is pookie leader

James calls his fans pookies. Therefore, This should be included in the article. 2600:6C64:6D7F:8A6E:847A:292:AEF8:E7CB (talk) 14:35, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:James Marriott (musician)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Spinixster (talk · contribs) 02:27, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for nominating this article to GA. I see that you have worked hard on this article, but unfortunately, I will have to quickfail this article due to it not meeting the good article criteria, mostly criteria 2, "Verifiable with no original research".

• The article contains a lot of original research, for example:
  • Marriott's first online works were cartoons and animations, is sourced to the original YouTube channel, and would require one to look elsewhere to find out if the information is true. The latter part of the sentence, using Microsoft Paint, clay figurines as well as Lego to portray storylines. is also unsourced.
  • He would later become friends with ImAllexx and host a weekly podcast, Camp Cast, with him which ended in 2019. Marriott would then become part of a YouTube group in 2020 with newly found friends and fellow creators called the Eboys with ImAllexx, WillNE and Memeulous, during the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. The group's content would consist of re-creations of TV shows like Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?, challenges and vlog-style videos. This part is sourced again to a primary source that requires one to look through the channel.
• Most of the Social media section contain events with unknown notability. See Hbomberguy or Dream (YouTuber) as an example of an article that contains events that are notable (sourced to secondary sources).
• The article uses a lot of primary sources, which should be switched to secondary when possible.
• Some sources used are of questionable reliability, and should be switched to more reliable ones when possible or removed. See WP:RSP for a list of reliable and unreliable sources.

The article is well written, it's just the sources that make the article not comply with GA criteria. Once the issues are resolved, I do not see any problems with renominating. If you need help, I recommend utilizing WP:Peer review and referencing other Good Articles of similar subjects. And if you have questions, the WP:Teahouse is welcome to help you. Cheers!

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 2 March 2024

James Marriot was given the nickname 'Pookie' by his Twitch chat in late 2023, when several chat members began to say that he was their pookie bear. James was originally opposed to this title but it seems as of early 2024 he is quite fond of the nickname, even beginning to state that he is, in fact, pookie. Milosilofilogilo (talk) 21:46, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jamedeus (talk) 22:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:James Marriott (musician)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Georgeykiwi (talk · contribs) 00:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Averageuntitleduser (talk · contribs) 18:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

As promised. I remember seeing this guy around YouTube, it's nice to see him thriving as a musician! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 18:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again for giving the article a swing! Yeah, his music is great, also found him from his old YouTube days, have seen him live 6 times now, haha. Appreciate your time! George (talk) 00:37, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

That's so cool! Apologies for the wait; my schedule is lightening up, so I should have comments out by tonight. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 12:19, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

@Averageuntitleduser we have implemented all of the changes listed here! Will attend to the new ones as soon as they're posted! :) George (talk) 12:02, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I did the first seven, using the latter suggestion for the seventh. I left the last one on the grounds that all twelve videography FLs and a random selection of discography FLs all contained them, though I see that George has already merged the tables and I don't feel strongly enough to put it back.--Launchballer 20:10, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Nice, and that does seem reasonable! On another note, is there precedent for a musician's article to have a "Memebers" section? Genuinely curious, though I don't feel a need to remove it. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:50, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't believe there is any sort of rules on it, I just thought as it's extra information that can be given with source & also with a supporting image then it would be worth adding! :) George (talk) 00:33, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

It shall stay for now! And indeed, the image is quite nice. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 02:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Awesome! Have implemented all reference changes. George (talk) 03:11, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

@Averageuntitleduser Have implemented both "broad in it's coverage" points by rephrasing artistry section and mentioning "Grapes" in the article using the Clash article. George (talk) 23:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Well-written

The article reads smoothly. I don't see it too often, but I think the descriptions of his music scattered across the "Life and career" section work much in favor of the article. And I like the choice of keeping the "Artistry" section to broader descriptions and inspirations.

• In the lead, the transition between his career as a YouTuber to releasing music feels a bit abrupt, perhaps split these sentences.  Done
• giving him a — perhaps: "to foster a", it feels a bit looser and prevents the two present participles in a row.  Done
• as well as his native language, English — this slightly implies that he learned English during the course, perhaps: "alongside".  Done
• followers — "subscribers", most readers would know the term or be able to extrapolate the meaning.  Done
• car journeys with his family — "family road trips"  Done
• "in your fucking face"-ness of her vocal production — perhaps: "punchy vocal production" or just remove "-ness of her".  Done
• Consider integrating the "Music videos" table into the "Singles" table; it's not on the style guide and it doesn't seem too common.  Done

Verifiable with no original research

At first glance, the sourcing looks pretty good, it's definitely improved since the last review. Dork, NME, AllMusic, Yorkshire Evening Post... there's some great material. The interviews seem to all be used for Marriott's words, or are otherwise passable, and the primary sources are used nicely for dates, charts, and the like. The Varsity and Redbrick articles are quite local, so as student newspapers, their uses seem alright. During my spot-check, paraphrasing seemed to be used well, and courtesy of the low Earwig score, over-quoting is not an issue. Otherwise, I'm going to challenge you on a few minor sources:

• Ref 13: these types of blurbs are usually just supplied by the artist's manager or agency.  Done Replaced with agency link & rephrased.
  • I figured you'd remove it, but I actually don't mind! I rephrased it per the first point of WP:BLPSELFPUB. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 16:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Cool! Looks great :) George (talk) 23:30, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

• Ref 14: this is quite picky, but the website doesn't stand out as too reliable. It could be replaced with Clash or AllMusic alongside this NME article for the "Teenage Cancer Trust" part.  Done Added NME article to support Cancer Trust statement and used the Clash article for the previous statement.
• Ref 19: forgive my pickiness, but this is syndicated from Music Feeds, which is of unknown reliability, it could easily be replaced with the Untitled source, by swapping the "see Marriott announce" to "see Marriott perform".  Done Swapped for the Untitled source.

Spot-check

The Salisbury Journal ref was unexpected.. admittedly, good find! After looking through every source, and making some simple tweaks, I only have one issue:

• Caddick, Daniel (13 July 2023). "One on One: An Interview With James Marriott!". Hive Magazine. Archived from the original on 4 March 2024. Retrieved 4 March 2024.
  • The image in the "Members" section only confirms that they played their instruments at one specific time; admittedly, it would be simple to remove the instruments entirely. But, if you find some primary/secondary sources that confirm them (even a tweet that addresses it specifically), then go ahead! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Averageuntitleduser The reference above does have the band explain how each member was assigned to their instruments and I did link it next to every band member, is that sufficient along with the image or do you need me to find further secondary sources? George (talk) 03:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for my pickiness; you're right that it covers a lot of them! But I'd be more comfortable if "glockenspiel", "rhythm" in "rhythm guitar", and the two backing vocals were sourced or removed. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 03:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Averageuntitleduser I have removed the unsourced instruments, can't find a source for them. George (talk) 04:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Got it. It still looks nice! And I think I've come around this section, with how much touring Marriott's done and how prevalant they are. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Broad in its coverage

Looks pretty good in this regard! His education, beginnings as a YouTuber, and transition to music seem balanced and thorough, despite the limited sources available. Some more sources about touring, but they aren't too reliable or usable. However:

• This Clash article could be used to mention "Grapes" and even provide a sentence about his general style in the "Artistry" section.  Done
• Per the "focused" criteria, perhaps cut down on the info about "Denial". This would be helped by the suggestion above, but one or two more sentences of broad, independent commentary about his lyrics, instruments, genres, etc. would be nice. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 16:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done Cut down on the information about "Denial" and added information on his go-to guitar when writing. George (talk) 23:08, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I quite like the changes! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 01:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Stable

Vandalism has stopped since the article became semi-protected, even then, there have been no major content disputes.

Illustrated

Images are relevant and abundant (no doubt thanks to your efforts). They all check out as public domain/own works.

Summary

I'm starting to like the format, so I think I'll do this review in batches. The article is looking quite solid already, nice work! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 16:53, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I love your committment to this article, from creation to DYK to a second GAN! I now believe it's up to scratch, cheers to your well-deserved first GA! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 13 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 01:40, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

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• James Marriott (musician) → James Marriott
• James Marriott → James Marriott (disambiguation)

– seems to be the most viewed page by far, the current James Marriott page can be made into James Marriott (disambiguation) George (talk) 23:48, 12 May 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). George (talk) 18:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Amakuru, Hi! Wanted to discuss your opposing of the move of this article to James Marriott, this article was listed as a ‘good article’ a while ago now, and was featured on the home page around the same time, so I believe the current 30 day page views to be all organic. Going by the fact that every other ‘James Marriott’ article has under 100 views in the last 30 days, (other than the author which still has just 462) I would say that this article is the primary topic. Going into the future I would be confident in saying that this James Marriott would have the most longevity. Hope to hear your response! :) Also just wanted to add that this James Marriott is notable under wikipedia’s rules mainly as a musician rather than as a Youtuber so please treat the article that way in decisions rather than jumping to negative conclusions as you saw ‘Youtuber’ as part of his career. Thanks! George (talk) 18:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - Thanks for the note and explanation of the position, Georgeykiwi. My main reason for opposing this move is that, as outlined at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, we should assess the relative notability of the relevant individuals more by long-term significance than by how many page views they get. As far as I can tell from a subjective assessment of their careers, the 1720–1813 judge was the most significant - as his article notes, "his contribution to legal history lies principally in the publication of Formulare instrumentarum, a text on admiralty law that had a significant influence on American law in particular". So while he may not attract huge page views, in terms of overall enduring significance he seems to be ahead of the musician, whose most successful work so far was an album that hit number 17 on the UK album charts. Certainly the musician is the subject of interest right now, as this is when he's active, but from an encyclopedic standpoint, I don't think there is any primary topic between the entries and the status quo should remain. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 19:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. No primary topic here by long-term significance. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Necrothesp. There are four men listed upon the James Marriott disambiguation page, with little indication that the YouTuber has attained renown to such a widespread degree that it dwarfs the combined notability of the remaining three men. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:21, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2024

Change 2 million subscribers to 2.68 million across all channels 2601:2C1:8A82:1DA0:A402:BDBF:166:95F2 (talk) 14:36, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Ligaturama (talk) 16:07, 1 July 2024 (UTC)