Talk:How Not to Be a Boy

A fact from How Not to Be a Boy appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 9 April 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Robert Webb planned his first book to be about Top Gear and other topics of lad culture before it became How Not to Be a Boy, a memoir about masculinity?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/How Not to Be a Boy.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 20:57, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that in Robert Webb's memoir How Not to Be a Boy (2017), he and his wife use the term "The Trick" as a way of referring to gender expectations when talking to their daughters? Source: Several e.g. Channel 4 News (8:45-9:30), he calls the patriarchy ‘The Trick’
- ALT1:... that Robert Webb planned for his first book to be about Top Gear and other lad culture topics before it became How Not to Be a Boy (2017), a memoir about masculinity? Source: Several e.g. "He toyed with the idea of doing a “humorous survey on men’s culture”, with chapters on Top Gear and lads’ magazines, but he realised that that would be a terrible idea"
- ALT2:... that Robert Webb's first book How Not to Be a Boy (2017) arose from an article he wrote for the magazine New Statesman? Source: Several e.g. “I wrote an article of the same name for the New Statesman,” the 44-year-old says of the book’s genesis

Reviewed: All of the Dead Girls

Created by Bilorv (talk). Self-nominated at 16:13, 21 March 2021 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - The direct quotations seem unnecessary and should be rewritten in your own words. The one regarding Bill Turnbull lacks context for readers unfamiliar with this person.

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting: - I don't really get the "The Trick" in the ALT0 (and in the article), that needs more elaboration. ALT1 and ALT2 are okay.

QPQ: Done.

Overall: See above. Regards So Why 11:00, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I can't eliminate the quoting entirely, and some degree of it is standard in all the quality-reviewed book articles I've seen or worked on. But I agree that there was significant overreliance on quotes, so I've tried to rewrite in my own words everywhere except where it's difficult to do so without close paraphrasing, taking a person out of context or introducing neutrality concerns. I'm not sure what I can say to describe Turnbull other than "a BBC morning news presenter" (already present). "The Trick" is essentially just their slang term for patriarchy (the particular conception of patriarchy that he and his wife have). This was quite unclear, so I've rephrased in the article and suggested an alt below in line with that.
- ALT3: ... that Robert Webb explains in his memoir How Not to Be a Boy (2017) how he and his wife talk about the patriarchy with their two daughters, calling it "The Trick"?

— Bilorv (talk) 01:26, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm marking this ready with the changes and ALT3 is acceptable too. @Bilorv: As for Bill Turnbull, as someone not familiar with this person, reading that particular part of the article leaves me confused why Webb would single out Turnbull as the one to explain it to. Is Turnbull someone who is particularly hard to convince? Is he the "average guy" stand-in? Maybe that can be elaborated more for people like me. Regards So Why 15:32, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Anything more is original research on my part. I think the description as an "average guy stand-in" is pretty accurate. To say he's recognisable to most people in Britain would be an understatement (he's more known than any American news host would be in America because we have only two dominant breakfast news channels), but for anyone outside, "BBC morning news presenter" conveys the majority of the relevant information in this thought. — Bilorv (talk) 16:10, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]