Talk:Green tea ice cream

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Redirect?

Not only does the matcha article not have the information about the ice cream (other than a passing reference to it as a flavor) that this article does, it's quite careless to redirect over an article without atleast dicussing it beforehand. Calicore 04:25, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Other Origins

I read that this was american.204.102.108.31 23:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's what i've been trying to tell people!!! 75.2.223.253 04:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, with a bogus source that you (or someone saying exactly the same thing as you) were blocked for. Don't try it again, please. If this were true, there would be many sources for it. If you are editing in good faith, then go find some. If not, please find something else to do with your time. Tvoz |talk 04:20, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Woah, woah, woah. Kinda harsh, don't you think? No one likes a wiki-nazi. If someone has something to contribute, should they be met with hostility?Nixalite1234 01:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RIGHT ON!!! 75.3.226.246 03:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WHat no one should like are people making up bogus citations. Check the history - but then I think you're probably well aware of it. I'm not hostile to someone who has something legitimate to contribute - just to people who vandalize with phony nonsense. And Nixalite, you call me a nazi and complain about hostility? Tvoz |talk 05:25, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Damn Straight! Its people like you who are ruining the wikipedia experience for everyone else. Ever thought of trying to reach a compromise instead of being flat-out hostile? 75.2.216.234 23:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

75, you are uncivil and out of order. Ad hominem attacks are never appreciated. Just because you don't get what you want doesn't mean you can be rude. As for TVOZ, you should try to make a compromise. Nixalite1234 23:25, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some Observations

There is a lot of funny stuff going on around this topic. First of all, the name for this ice cream is different in English than in Japanese. In Japanese, this is called "matcha ice cream" not "green tea ice cream". As you can see by the two different articles on English Wikipedia, matcha and green tea are not the same thing. I think the taste of this ice cream is closer to matcha than to green tea. Secondly, neither this article, nor the Japanese article on matcha ice cream seem to have a good handle on the actual origin of this ice cream. I can remember first having matcha ice cream in Tokyo around 1986 or 1987. I remember my Japanese friends telling me at the time that it was something new. I even remember where I had it. It was at an ice cream parlor at 1-15-1 Nishiazabu, Minato-ku, Tokyo, which is now a Lawson convenience store. I hope some day this English article can point out how this is really matcha ice cream, not green tea ice cream, as well as get a better handle on how this flavor of ice cream came about. By the late 1980's, it was definitely being served in Tokyo. --Westwind273 (talk) 18:56, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus is against this move. Geardona (talk to me?) 01:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Green tea ice cream → Matcha ice cream – Because matcha ice cream is common in Japan, the country of its origin. 薔薇騎士団 (talk) 01:17, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I propose to rename and move this article from "Green tea ice cream" to "Matcha ice cream."

In Japan, Green tea ice cream is generally sold as Matcha ice cream. Matcha is a type of green tea, but it is differentiated by its ingredients and is not the same. In recent years, matcha has become a well-known name in English-speaking countries as well, so I think matcha ice cream is a more accurate name for the article.薔薇騎士団 (talk) 01:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose so far. Country of origin is not the only or best factor to use in determining an article name. All matcha ice cream is green tea ice cream, but not all green tea ice cream is matcha ice cream. The current title is probably more WP:RECOGNIZABLE for English-language readers. Dekimasuよ! 02:08, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Food and drink has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Japan has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, OP has presented no sources to support the proposed title. 162 etc. (talk) 17:00, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The term "matcha ice cream" first appeared in the 1926 issue of the "Tea Industry Bulletin." Green tea is called ryokucha (緑茶) in Japan, but the term ryokucha ice cream is less common than matcha ice cream: a google search yields 16.3 million hits for matcha ice cream but 4.16 million for rykucha ice cream.

Also, matcha is made from tea leaves called tencha, which is distinguished in Japan from ordinary green tea. Hence, calling matcha ice cream green tea ice cream is considered a misnomer in Japan. 薔薇騎士団 (talk) 00:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:SOURCES. Anecdotal statements and Google searches aren't sufficient. 162 etc. (talk) 05:01, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO) introduces matcha on its introduction page, stating that matcha is different from ordinary green tea and that matcha is also used in ice cream. JETRO is a corporation established by Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) to promote and advertise trade. 薔薇騎士団 (talk) 06:01, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The second sentence on that page says "matcha is a type of green tea". We do not necessarily use official names and rely on common usage in English for article titles. The terms that are used in Japan (including for advertisting/trade promotion purposes) are mostly irrelevant in that context. "Green tea ice cream" remains the most inclusive possible title here. Dekimasuよ! 15:36, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. WP:en is intended for English-speaking readers, and as far as possible should be written to be immediately understandable by them. This means using English words as far as possible. The tendentious arguments above all assume that any Japanese sentence that makes sense can be converted by word-replacement into an English sentence which will also make sense, and this is not true. Imaginatorium (talk) 15:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Matcha is a Japanese word that has been well recognized in English-speaking countries in recent years, but does it reflect the fact that English readers have difficulty understanding it? The point is that if matcha and green tea were synonymous, there would be no problem, but in fact matcha is recognized in Japan as a special form of green tea. 薔薇騎士団 (talk) 02:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Unfortunately so far the contributions to this discussion have failed to address the issue here. Matcha is in fact an English word. Not being overly familiar with this topic I did some basic research and found matcha is widely-used on recipe websites and on products in English-speaking countries. See here for two examples Nigella Lawson recipe and The Endless Meal recipe. Many also used matcha green tea together, such as this Australian ice cream brand and an American ice cream brand. The idea matcha is unrecognisable in English is rather silly. AusLondonder (talk) 16:32, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is arguing that "matcha ice cream" doesn't exist, or is totally unknown in English; the claim I made above was more recognizable. However, at any rate, "matcha ice cream" is a specific type of "green tea ice cream" (as the editor who proposed this move also argues). We wouldn't move Vanilla ice cream to Vanilla bean ice cream because of an idea that it is a special type of vanilla flavoring, nor would we move an article on "Chocolate chip ice cream" to "Mint chocolate chip ice cream". Just as that would leave us with no location to write about non-mint chocolate chip ice cream, this would leave us with no location to write about the more general flavor, such as the Maeda-en green tea ice cream that is explicitly mentioned in the current article. Dekimasuよ! 03:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.