Talk:Gjergj Thopia

Requested move 13 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 10:41, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

---

George Thopia → Gjergj Thopia – Switch title to the native name Gjergj. Arberian2444 (talk) 03:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 05:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm still getting used to article name rules, but wouldn't WP:USE ENGLISH apply here unless the native name is more commonly used? Urchincrawler (talk) 11:09, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The Gjerg Thopia gets more hits than George Thopia.Arberian2444 (talk) 15:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. No indication that this 14th-century Albanian noble has been referenced by the Anglicized form of his given name. English Wikipedia has entries for a number of Albanian notables listed under main title header Gjergj. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Use of Surname

Shouldn't the surname be used after the first mention in accordance with MOS:SURNAME? Urchincrawler (talk) 11:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Gjergj Thopia/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Arberian2444 (talk · contribs) 20:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 13:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Image review

• File:Mbishkrimi prej mermeri i kishës së Shën Gjon Vladimirit.png: I doubt it is properly licenced; the source should be more specific (page?)
• File:Medieval Durrës.jpg: I doubt it is properly licenced.
• Could you add a map? Borsoka (talk) 13:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Source review

• Why do you think the quotes are necessary in the references?
• Why do you think Lamprecht (1877) is still a reliable source?
• Add a translation for the title of Lamprecht (1877) and Veselinović&Ljušić (2002) by using the "|trans-title=" parameter, and also add the languages by using the "|lang=" parameter.
• I would delete or radically shorten the lengthy quote.
• With the sole possible exception mentioned above, academic sources are cited. Borsoka (talk) 13:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I just wanna first thank you for reviewing my article! I have added a translation for the title and radically shortened the lengthy quote.

I have also expanded the lead.

As for the quotes in the references I feel that it is necessary because its intended to provide the direct textual evidence from that source instead of just listing a page number for someone to find it themselves so they can see where I got this information from. I've done this on my previous article Durrës Expedition that is currently a Good article.

For the Lamprecht source I feel that he is a primary source because it provides more in-depth information about Gjergj Thopia, such as the month of his death and other detailed aspects of his life, which are not covered in other current sources. But I can remove him if that's not a good enough explanation.

For the "File:Mbishkrimi prej mermeri i kishës së Shën Gjon Vladimirit.png"- Im confused on what the source should be and specific?

For the "File:Medieval Durrës.jpg:" I can remove that and I dont think their is any maps about Gjergj Thopia's domains but their is of when his father was in power? Thank you again!Arberian2444 (talk) 18:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

• Thank you for your quick actions. No, do not delete Lamprecht - I just needed some information about its relevance. "File:Mbishkrimi prej mermeri i kishës së Shën Gjon Vladimirit.png": the file at Commons refers to a lengthy study as its source, I think the page from the study that contains the picture should be mentioned in the "Source" section of the Commons file. You can raise questions about copyright issues at Wikipedia talk:Copyrights - my concern is that I am not convinced that the photographer made the model. Borsoka (talk) 18:25, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

  Yes no problem! I added the page number on the source section of the Commons file and I also found a map that depicted the Principality of Albania between 1385-1392. Thanks again!Arberian2444 (talk) 18:32, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Comments

• The lead need to be expanded with at least three or four sentences. Borsoka (talk) 13:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
• Prince Gjergj... Delete the title.
• All terms should only be once linked in the main text.
• Firstborn son?
• Introduce the medieval Principality of Albania and the Thopia family with a short sentence.
• Introduce Voislava Balsha and her family with a short sentence.
• ...as Prince of Albania... Delete.
• Why are references 6 and 7 necessary?
• Reference 5 mentions that Gjergj was "sickly".

• This could be mentioned as one of the few information we know of him before his ascension.

• ..., although he ultimately had to settle for the latter title due to most of his father’s possessions falling under Ottoman control. This is quite out of context here, for the Ottoman conquest is mentioned in a following section.
• Introduce Theodora and her family with a short sentence.
• A 1363 document describes a crown adorned with pearls and precious stones, potentially linked to the Thopia family. Later records from 1393, 1399, and 1400 specifically mention a gold crown and four pairs of pearl earrings as possessions of Gjergj Thopia's wife. I would delete it.
• ... reignited Rephrase to avoid close paraphrasing.
• ...proud of his Anjou heritage... Some more information about his Anjou ancestry? Furthermore Ladislaus was the one of Capetian Anjou ancestry, Louis was member of the Valois Anjou dynasty.
• ...and received support from Pope Clement VII... The cited source does not verify the statement.
• Thopia, proud of his Anjou heritage, aligned himself with Louis and received support from Pope Clement VII, who had become the first antipope during the Western Schism. Rephrase to avoid close paraphrasing. I would avoid the term "antipope".
• Introduce Pope Boniface IX as the Roman pope.
• However, Pope Boniface IX opposed Thopia’s ties with Antipope Clement, preferring Gjergj II Balsha to govern Durrës instead of Gjergj Thopia. Rephrase to avoid close paraphrasing.
• Despite this, it was Venice’s political moves in 1392 that marked a crucial turning point for Gjergj Thopia’s and Gjergj II Balsha's holdings. Rephrase to avoid close paraphrasing. Borsoka (talk) 01:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  Hello again! Ive mostly fixed all of these but their are a few I'm curious and confused about.

  For this one "Reference 5 mentions that Gjergj was "sickly"." Should I include in the text that he was sickly?

  For this one "..., although he ultimately had to settle for the latter title due to most of his father’s possessions falling under Ottoman control. This is quite out of context here, for the Ottoman conquest is mentioned in a following section." I thought it would be in context because before Gjergj even came to power his father and the ottomans fought in the Battle of Savra against the balsha family. Which afterwards it led to the lands going under as ottoman vassals. I wasn't sure if I should include that bit to fix that?

  For this one "A 1363 document describes a crown adorned with pearls and precious stones, potentially linked to the Thopia family. Later records from 1393, 1399, and 1400 specifically mention a gold crown and four pairs of pearl earrings as possessions of Gjergj Thopia's wife. I would delete it." Would I be able to keep this but just reword it majorly or possibly move it somewhere else?

  Then finally for this one " Furthermore Ladislaus was the one of Capetian Anjou ancestry, Louis was member of the Valois Anjou dynasty" Should I include that information for those two?

  Thank you again! Arberian2444 (talk) 02:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

• Please go through sections 2-4 to make sure that all instances of close paraphrasing are fixed. Ping me if you are ready. Borsoka (talk) 09:31, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Borsoka: Ok I think I fixed all instances of close paraphrasing. Arberian2444 (talk) 17:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)