Talk:Gennadiy Borisov

Gennady Borisov

(refactored from Talk:2I/Borisov)

Some news accounts call Gennady Borisov an amateur astronomer, but that is not true, correct? What is his position? Abductive (reasoning) 22:29, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

As I understand it, he is an experienced amateur and that is why he discovered the comet. Professional surveys normally do not look within 45 degrees of the Sun because of the size of the telescope and dome limitations. -- Kheider (talk) 23:17, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

He is an amateur astronomer. The thing that makes him an amateur is that he is not paid for his work (this does not account for research grants, which are often given to amateurs). It does say absolutely nothing about the quality of his work, or about the scope of discoveries he could make. Renerpho (talk) 00:16, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Gennady V. Borisov is a 1st category engineer working at the Department of Physics of Emissive Stars and Galaxies at the Crimean Astronomical Station of the State Astronomical Institute named after P. K. Shternberg of the Moscow State University named after M. V. Lomonosov (or CAS MSU for short). Source: http://www.sai.msu.ru/dept/crimea/index.html. --46.242.12.78 (talk) 01:17, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

NB: The English version of the website seems outdated. Use the Russian version with Google Translate. --46.242.12.78 (talk) 01:17, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Also note that the Crimean Astronomical Station is located right next to the Crimean Astrophysical Observatory, but is not a part of it. The Crimean Astronomical Station's land and property is owned and run by the Moscow State University, while the Crimean Astrophysical Observatory's land and property is owned and run by the Federal Agency for Scientific Organizations. I don't know where Borisov's telescope was installed, but if it was installed at the Crimean Astronomical Station, then it would be incorrect to say that the extrasolar comet was "discovered at CrAO". I think it's best to ask Borisov himself whether he considers his discovery to be a part of his work at CAS, a part of his (possible) work at CrAO, or his own personal discovery made in his spare time. --46.242.12.78 (talk) 01:42, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

To be exact, working on telescopes is his job, although I can’t find the page where I read that now :( So you’d think he’s a hobbyist at watching the skies, but then in this NASA article, they say he discovered the object at MARGO observatory in Nauchnij, Crimea: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/newly-discovered-comet-is-likely-interstellar-visitor

However, I can’t find any information online about what that MARGO observatory might be. The name could be from a Russian acronym, because the first two letters fit with "International Astronomical …", but a search for "марго обсерватория" on the web doesn’t produce anything except articles about this new discovery. However, it is included as L51 on Wikipedia’s list of observatory codes, so it may just be a real observatory after all… https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/List_of_observatory_codes#L00-L99

This isn’t really the place for discussing this, but I still find it strange that Nauchny (Wikipedia spelling) has no English article, although there are articles in German, French, etc. So the Crimean Astrophysical Observatory, which is located in Nauchny does have its page, but the (tiny) town doesn’t. It was built after WW II, around the telescopes, as a place for staff and their families to live.--Geke (talk) 15:22, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

MARGO is the name of Borisov's private observatory, i.e. his two GENON Max telescopes and the new, still unnamed, 0.6-meter telescope, all of which are situated on a patch of land right next to a small building housing SAI's ZEISS-600 telescope which Borisov services as his day job (but does not use as an astronomer). Unfortunately, there is no direct quote on this. We know this because NASA says C/2019 Q4 was discovered at MARGO observatory, and we know C/2019 Q4 was discovered by Borisov using his own custom-built 0.6-meter telescope, so putting two and two together, it is clear that Borisov calls his telescopes "MARGO observatory". Hopefully, some English-language media outlet interviews him and asks a direct question about "MARGO" (and what the acronym means), so we can have an explicit answer. I agree with you that Nauchnyy should have its own page. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 23:36, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

MARGO is just the name given by Borisov to his private observatory. You can find it referred to in the discovery MPEC, and of course in the official list of Observatory Codes. The rules for how observatories are named are very lose, compare here. As for when the observatory was named - that happened on 17 November 2013, with the official announcement on the first page of this document. When you name your observatory (and I have done this a couple of times myself), you simply state what you want it to be called. You are not required to give an explanation, and the name can be completely meaningless, as long as it is unoffensive. Maybe Borisov explains the name at some point. If so, great. If not, I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's just a name. Renerpho (talk) 05:37, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Geke, UnladenSwallow, Renerpho: MARGO stands for “Mobil Astronomical Robotics Genon Observatory”. SenseiAC (talk) 17:08, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

I saw it earlier, but decided not to include it, because it seems to be a garbled version of "Mobile Astronomical Robotic Genon Observatory". However, I couldn't find a proper version, so I don't know what to do. Should we include this version with spelling mistakes? Or should we wait for a large interview with Borisov in an English-language media outlet which hopefully will ask him about the acronym and spell the answer properly? — UnladenSwallow (talk) 17:22, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Why do we need to include that information, at all? Is there a guideline that says that acronyms must be resolved? Renerpho (talk) 17:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm fine with not including it. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 17:47, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

In my view, the current reading "discovered by Gennadiy Borisov at his personal observatory MARGO" is perfect, as it mentions MARGO but also shows its (tiny) status. Thanks for the change, made by one of you above here, I’m sure.

As you seem to have good sources, I have another question. The quote from Borisov states an impossibility: "I observed it on August 29, but it was August 30 GMT." After all, the clocks on Crimea are ahead of those at Greenwhich. How to find out if this error was there in the original statement or maybe introduced afterwards, e.g. a poor translation that moved the GMT to the second date? And shouldn’t it rather be "UT"? Geke (talk) 12:40, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Should I include biographical information taken from a blog?

(refactored from Talk:2I/Borisov)

Renerpho has found a 2014 interview with Borisov with important biographical information (age, place of birth, alma mater, etc.): https://crimeanblog.blogspot.com/2014/09/borisov.html. It's posted on a blog, but it says it's a copy of an article from Russkaya planeta (Russian: Русская планета). Unfortunately, Russkaya planeta does not seem to have the article on its website, rusplt.ru. This is probably because Russkaya planeta changed ownership, and most of its staff left in December 2014.

So what should I do? Should I include this information or not? — UnladenSwallow (talk) 20:21, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

It seems to revolve around the quality of the Blog: WP:Blogs as sources. I see that Crimean Blog has been around since 2007, so they have been doing something right. Rowan Forest (talk) 21:49, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

WP:BLPSPS says:

Never use self-published sources—including but not limited to books, zines, websites, blogs, and tweets—as sources of material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the article. "Self-published blogs" in this context refers to personal and group blogs.

But Krymskiy blog is certainly not a personal blog or a group blog. It's a thematic blog that reposts Crimea-related articles from various media outlets. I guess that makes it not subject to WP:BLPSPS.

Since the post in question is a repost of the original Russkaya planeta article anyway, I'll go ahead and add information from it to the article and use {{cite web}}'s |archive-url= parameter or |url= + |via= parameters to link Krymskiy blog's repost. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 01:01, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

@UnladenSwallow: Yes, you can cite the interview to Russkaya planeta, with a |via= parameter to indicate the re-publishing on the blog. You could also search for the original article at archive.org. — JFG ^talk 06:32, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Nine comets

Borisov has discovered another comet: https://minorplanetcenter.net/mpec/K19/K19VD0.html Agmartin (talk) 16:40, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

It's already in the article. Renerpho (talk) 18:10, 9 November 2019 (UTC) I updated the discovery count. Renerpho (talk) 18:15, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

2I/Borisov

How can Gennadiy Borisov writes : "I observed it on August 29, but it was August 30 GMT." ? As Crimea is at GMT+2, the contrary should be true. Should'nt it?Christophe1946 (talk) 11:28, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Ukrainian or Russian

He was born in Ukraine and lives in Ukraine. I can't find any evidence suggesting he has Russian nationality. Therefore, should he be listed as Ukrainian? 77.119.201.117 (talk) 21:47, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

The reference that's currently used in the lead section of the article doesn't even mention the words "Russia" or "Russian", but it doesn't say that he is Ukrainian either. It does call him "a Crimean astronomer", and I'd argue that's probably the best approach to take: Say that he is Crimean, and avoid the whole geopolitical debate. Renerpho (talk) 04:24, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

I went ahead and changed it accordingly. This is also in line with the location ("Nauchnyy, Bakhchysarai Raion, Crimea") given in the infobox. I have left both categories (Russian astronomer, Ukrainian astronomer) untouched; I think having both doesn't hurt. Renerpho (talk) 04:27, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

He was born in Donetsk in Ukraine and is not as far as I can tell an indigenous Crimean Tatar, which is what most people assume "Crimean" means. Crimea is not an independent state. jonathan.kade (talk) 04:55, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

I've just reverted[1] an edit made by Frosty2015 in February 2024 (without discussion, and marked as a minor edit, which is why I hadn't seen it before the next major edit was made on 24 November). They changed this to "Russian". Unless we have a source that says whether Borisov considers Crimea to be part of Russia or Ukraine, I think it's a bad idea to suggest that he personally identifies as either -- especially when our sources refuse to do so. jonathan.kade's point isn't wrong, but I think geopolitics beats anthropology in this case. I'm opening up this discussion again, to see if there's a better solution than to follow the 2019 New York Times article. Renerpho (talk) 17:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)