Talk:Female sperm

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Scope of the article

I believe this article is somewhat extending its scope beyond what it should be at. I believe parts of it should be merged into the LGBT reproduction article to keep the scope limited to discussing female sperm, more like the Male egg article SiliconProphet (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Conversation not in a section

What the hell??

LOL, agreed man, agreed.

Y not needed for conception?

The Y chromosome is needed to make functioning sperm at all, that is, sperm with normal maturation levels that yields life (both female and male ) without epigenetic disease, that is, that will be born with severe health problems or suffer from premature aging. But in female development in the womb, the Y chromosome in the testes formation are somehow suppressed yielding females instead of males. There is no idea why this happens, but Y is required for fecundation and therefore conception. Gogoboi 20:55, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

I do not believe this is the case, I don't understand this epigenetics. My understanding is that women having children together will only have daughters with XX chromosomes. This might skew sex ratios in such a society, or create a hereditary lesbian caste, but it will not cause genetic illnessesSiliconProphet (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Erm...

There seems to have been some dispute a while back if female sperm could be used for artificial insemination, I'd just like to point out that a Y chromosome is not at all neccesary for conception, all human females on Earth have been concieved from sperm without a Y chromosome, the sperm contains an X chromosome just as a "female sperm" would. Also there were claims that none of the sources brought up the possiblity of female sperm being used this way but I skimmed through them and that simply wasnt true. I'm surprised no one caught this for so long. Velps 19:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

That is correct as far as I knowSiliconProphet (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

link dead

the link to independent.co.uk results in a 404 error —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.224.55.168 (talk) 08:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

• I've replaced the URL with a link to an article at the same website about the same subject. It also appears to be more recent.65.69.141.245 09:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

i m agree with female sperm^_^ support very much ！！！

Intro section.

I somewhat rewrote the first sentence.

The article, before this rewrite, first defined the term as normal sperm with an X-chromosome, then threw the definition away in favor of another one (sperm endowed with genetic material from a female) which it discussed for the rest of the article. Since no more mention of natural X-chromosome sperm was made, I changed the lead to be somewhat less confusing. Jsharpminor (talk) 00:46, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

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Original research

Guys this article is full of tons of original research. A make is an organism that produces sperm while female is an organism that produces ovum.

Some of these sources aren’t saying what y’all think they are saying.

Also I’m not confident some of these sources are reliable. CycoMa (talk) 20:35, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Is the original research still present? MaitreyaVaruna (talk) 17:52, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

I feel this is the case, I've been working on the LGBT reproduction article which I think should be used to better this article and lacks original researchSiliconProphet (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Trans women

There has been a recent edit war over whether sperm from trans women is "female sperm", the term "female sperm donor" is established but female sperm in isolation is more questionable. We should keep everything as is until we reach a consensus here Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 06:01, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Absent some evidence of significant use of the phrase "female sperm" to describe trans womens' sperm, it should not be included. Unlike the other two, it makes absolutely no sense given that trans women are male. There is no reason to think anyone would come to this page for that. Furthermore, the link provided does not mention "female sperm" or in any way support its inclusion. Given that it makes no sense and was added without support/discussion recently (only a few edits ago, all by the same person), it should not be kept in the page prior to consensus being reached. Cwagmire (talk) 06:06, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

"Trans women are male" is not an undisputed statement. Trans women are frequently referred to as female. It makes sense to include this usage as at least "female sperm donor" is used. Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 06:12, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Trans women are absolutely not female. The definition of female used by the wikipedia page on female is "Female (symbol: ♀) is the sex of an organism that produces the large non-motile ova (egg cells)." By this and every reasonable definition, trans women are not female. If they were, they would not be trans. That is kind of the point, and trying to confuse the matter of sex is not a good thing.

Further, including trans women on this page would be like include trans men's eggs on the "male egg" page, which does not include that. Leaving "sperm from a trans woman" off this page is not only consistent with the female wikipedia page and male egg page, but also with how "female" is defined by the overwhelming majority of unbiased sources.

And on top of all of that, you have not provided a single credible source for its inclusion. The reference that was previously there provided no support at all for inclusion of trans womens' sperm on this page. Cwagmire (talk) 06:30, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Considering this is an LGBT studies article it should somehow address this. The primary way for lesbians to have kids together biologically is one being trans and getting the other pregnant, so it's quite possible that would eventually become notable enough on its own to be included in its own article. Cis-trans gay and Cis-trans lesbian, alongside st4t. Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 07:30, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

I believe that it should not be included, simply because it is out of scope for this article. The lede defines the scope as "2. A sperm which artificially contains genetic material from a female. This article focuses on the second definition" (my bold). The sperm from the testes of a trans woman does not fit that description. (The definition in (1) could be changed to "produced in the usual way in the testicles".) Sjö (talk) 07:36, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

@Sjö the original context was that the lede was this:

Female sperm can refer to either:

1. A sperm which contains an X chromosome, produced in the usual way by a male, referring to the occurrence of such a sperm fertilizing an egg and giving birth to a female.
2. A sperm which artificially contains genetic material from a female.
3. A sperm from a transgender woman

So whether we ultimately decide to include it or not, it was more explaining what is and is not within the scope of the article. I think you probably read it but clarifying in case you thought we were arguing about including a section on sperm made in women's testes or similar. If this didn't change your mind I'll consider it as consensus. Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 07:44, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

I am not at all convinced. The third option was added by you in March, so I think that we need consensus to change from the previous stable version. Also, none of the sources you added use the term "female sperm" to refer to the gametes. The Pink News source says "female sperm donor" but that clearly refers to a person. Wikipedia:Verifiability is the relevant policy here, and if there are no significant reliable sources that call it "female sperm" it does not belong here.Sjö (talk) 07:58, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

It is an undisputed statement when Science and Facts are concerned.... Transwomen are Biological Males. No if, ands or buts about it 69.61.139.83 (talk) 09:48, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

This is not a Sociology Article, it is Biological Science. 2603:6010:7C40:1177:E934:D446:4F49:29F5 (talk) 17:32, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

At this point I want to point out that Wikipedia's verifiability policy says that Wikipedia content "is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of editors." That means that it is not important what we personally believe is true; instead the information in the articles should reflect what is published in reliable sources. Sometimes we might think that words, definitions or phrases are wrong, illogical or self-contradicting but Wikipedia publishes them if they are used by a significant number of reliable sources. That means that arguments based on what a trans woman is or not is are not relevant to this discussion, only if the term "female sperm" is used by reliable sources in the sense "a sperm from a transgender woman". So far this has not been shown to be the case. Sjö (talk) 07:09, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

References