Talk:Dahi (curd)

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Buffalo curd which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:46, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

I propose that Buffalo curd be merged into Dahi (curd). The content in the Buffalo curd article can easily be explained in the context of Dahi (curd), and the Dahi (curd) article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Foo will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. --Phonet (talk) 23:06, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the "Requested move" discussion at Talk:Buffalo curd. --Ne0 (talk) 19:48, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I read it! As dahi or "curd" can be made with buffalo milk, cow milk, and other milks, I thought this article could have subsections such as "buffalo milk dahi" and "cow milk dahi". What do you think? --Phonet (talk) 04:57, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I already proposed that, and it got rejected. --Ne0 (talk) 07:13, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I read the discussion but I don't see your proposal for that. (This article didn't even existed during the discussion, did it?) I would also have opposed the renaming of Buffalo curd as Indian curd, as dahi can be made with milks other than buffalo milk, and it has been produced and consumed in many South Asian countries other than India as well. I believe that this merger discussion is a separate one from the move discussion. --Phonet (talk) 23:09, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yogurt vs. curd

This is a content fork of yogurt. It makes the unsubstantiated claim that dahi is distinct from yogurt, claiming that "curd is used in Indian English to refer to traditional probiotic yogurt, while the term yogurt refers to the pasteurized variety." This makes no sense. What exactly is meant by "traditional probiotic yogurt" and how is it different from the non-industrial yogurt made in Turkey, Greece, Iran, etc.? For that matter, I am not aware of any commercial yogurts in the US or Europe which are pasteurized -- they all contain yogurt cultures. --Macrakis (talk) 17:09, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As of year 2009, 99% of Yogurt in US Supermarkets were irradiated(pasteurized), as per Codex Alimentarius. Then, the Probiotic movement started, encouraging companies to make yougurt probiotic again. For more info on this, see AboutYogurt.com. Now there are four types of yogurt :

Pasteurized Yogurt :Yogurt irridiated to kill all bacterias. Contains added Lactose, thus causes diarrhea to the Lactose intolerant.
Probiotic yogurt / Live Yogurt / Active Yogurt : Yogurt irridiated, and then Lactobacillus added in. May contain added lactose.
Yogurt probiotic drink : probiotic yogurt with a high quantity of a single species of Lactobacillus. Example: Yakult
Traditional yogurt : yogurt freshly made from yogurt residue and milk, everyday. Traditional Yogurt contains no preservative, thus lasts 36-48 hours in the refrigerator. Companies making Traditional Yogurt produce it locally, due to the expiry timeline. As per Ayurveda, this yogurt is recommended for bowel problems, including for the lactose intolerant.^[1]^[2]

As for traditional yogurt made in Turkey, Greece, Iran, etc., every region has their own unique traditional recipe for preparing yogurt. --Ne0 (talk) 10:11, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Whether what you say above is true or not (reliable sources would be nice), it is irrelevant to the question of whether dahi is distinct from yogurt, unless you are claiming that Wikipedia should exclude yogurt with live cultures from the yogurt article.

As for home-made yogurt, mine lasts longer than 36-48 hours in the fridge.

Re yogurt made in Turkey, Greece, etc., are you claiming that the differences are significant enough that we should have separate articles for Turkish yogurt, Greek yogurt (oops, that name has been hijacked to mean strained yogurt), Persian yogurt, etc. --Macrakis (talk) 15:05, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As I already said, according to Codex Alimentarius(World Government rules^[3]) most Yogurt brands in US supermarkets were pasteurized, as of 2009.

Dahi is a specific way of preparing yogurt, the major difference being preparation of the starter culture. Different tradition uses different preparation for yogurt starter culture, resulting in different Lactobacillus strains for different traditions.

Well, there are already articles for the Georgian Matzoon, Nepali Dhau, Indonesian Dadiah, Russian Kefir, etc. & YES, there is also an article for your Persian Yogurt: Ayran --Ne0 (talk) 11:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Many fermented milk products are made in a similar way, that is, by adding the starter culture (which often is the leftover/reserved product from the previous batch) to the milk. Dahi is one of them. Yogurt is also one of them. --Comedora (talk) 11:12, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The question is whether dahi and yogurt are distinct enough to need separate articles. --Macrakis (talk) 15:05, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pasteurized Yogurt is also known as “Heat treated Fermented Milk product” - Comparison of yoghurt, heat treated yoghurt, milk and lactose effects

Appearently, if yogurt is “heat treated after fermentation the requirement for viable micro-organisms in the final product does not apply.” - Government rules, Google search

“nutritional and functional changes (are) brought about by heat treatment of yogurt containing live cultures. Several lines of research evidence suggest that these products are not equivalent” -Assessment of the Benefits of Live Yogurt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.237.254.107 (talk) 05:33, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

^ [1]

^ [2]

^ Codex Alimentarius rules, by FAO

The common brands of yogurt in the US are made from pasteurized milk (not irradiated). In making home-made yogurt, you also heat the milk before adding the culture. On the other hand, the commercial yogurts in the US are not heat-treated or pasteurized after culturing, and they contain live cultures. This is clear on the manufacturers' web sites (Dannon, Yoplait, etc.), and also clear because you can make home-made yogurt starting from the commercial yogurt. The articles you cite does talk about the benefits of live cultures, but does not give any examples of commercial yogurt which is heat-treated. Perhaps there are UHT brands of yogurt in Europe? UHT is not very popular in the US.

The National Yogurt Association (US) has a "Live and Active Culture Seal Program" which certifies that the yogurt contains live and active cultures. All major US yogurt brands are listed as certified, including three which have "dahi" in their name. --Macrakis (talk) 23:20, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As for the other products similar to yogurt, they can be handled one by one. Note that ayran is not yogurt; it is a beverage made out of yogurt, water, and salt, similar to lassi, not yogurt itself. --Macrakis (talk) 01:52, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

first of all, the difference between curd and youghurt is not just the word. curd contains more varieties of bacteria than youghurt, and the bacterial composition differs from house to house. because of this the physical quality of curd differs from place to place.(I like the curd made at my home more than the curd made by my paternal grandparents home).signed,103.130.91.93 (talk) 08:35, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge on the grounds that the Indian practice of production and consumption is independently notable. Klbrain (talk) 05:56, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As noted above this is simply a fork of yogurt, based on a largely spurious distinction of the word "curd". What is being described is yoghurt (rather than a related but different fermented milk product such as skyr). The article has limited, mostly low quality sources. The one used to prove a distinction between "curd" and "yogurt" is a discussion on Stackexchange, which is a truly desperate attempt at sourcing. The source used to show that "yogurt" refers only to the pasteurised form is a blog (which in any case seems to be titled "making yogurt", not "making curd"). None of this proves any distinction.

Nearly all English language books about Indian food use the term "yogurt" or "yoghurt" to refer to the same product.Svejk74 (talk) 15:59, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

https://amritt.com/india-english-dictionary/?term=curd

In India, Curd means (homemade) Yogurt, & Yogurt usually refers to that imported "heat treated fermented milk". Foreign companies that want to differentiate their products from "heat treated fermented milk" in India, label it as Curd, instead of Yogurt.

Stop trying to discredit the sources in the article, and give your own counter-sources of "Indian English". Nearly all English language books about Indian food are NOT written in India nor written using Indian English. --Ne0 (talk) 05:50, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There's no need for me to 'discredit' the sources. As I pointed out, one is a discussion on a forum. Another is a blog. Neither carry any weight here, certainly not to argue any substantive distinction between the concept of "curd" and "yoghurt".

The unpasteurised product referred to in this article is usually called "yoghurt" in English. It may be called "dahi" in Hindi, and may even be labelled as "curd" in India, but it's just the same product; Wikipedia doesn't usually create a separate article where there's no material difference other than the word used. Look at all the articles merged into pilaf, where there is probably more physical difference between the products described than there is between a pot of unpasteurised yoghurt and "curd". Svejk74 (talk) 23:03, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is probably the same product, and this article is about the tradition of yoghurt production and consumption in India. The question is if one would be able to maintain a very large single article about yoghurt and all its varieties from all over the world. Note that Dhau could also be merged with this article before merging it with yoghurt. Also, note that Matzoon and Qatiq could also be merged into yoghurt. Is it worth merging everything in one huge article? --Off-shell (talk) 00:06, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I rather agree with Off-shell in opposing a merge. Links and cross-references are of course welcome, and in this case necessary. --Thnidu (talk) 01:38, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

preparation

should we really be putting suggestions like a cookbook? at least change the type from imperative to declarative. this ain't a cookbook, it's an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.138.12.253 (talk) 07:38, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1]

[2]

[3]