Talk:Cuisine of Jerusalem

Cuisine of Jerusalem has been listed as one of the Agriculture, food and drink good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 27, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Cuisine of Jerusalem appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 August 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the cuisine of Jerusalem reflects a blend of Jewish culinary traditions, including Sephardic, Kurdish, Ashkenazi, as well as Palestinian Arab traditions?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cuisine of Jerusalem.

Wikipedia

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Lovely article and very nicely put together!

Aszx5000 (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 22:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

Jerusalem kugel, a casserole typical of Jerusalem cuisine

... that dishes typical to cuisine of Jerusalem include the Jerusalem mixed grill, Jerusalem bagel, Jerusalem kugel and kubbeh?

Source: https://asif.org/en/the-jewish-kitchen-of-jerusalem-in-modern-history/
https://www.ynetnews.com/culture/article/h1tbqsgla
https://asif.org/he/%D7%9E%D7%AA%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%92%D7%9C-%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%99/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/20/magazine/jerusalem-grill-chicken-recipe.html

ALT1: ... that the cuisine of Jerusalem reflects a blend of Jewish culinary traditions, including Sephardic, Kurdish, Ashkenazi, as well as Palestinian Arab traditions? Source: https://asif.org/en/the-jewish-kitchen-of-jerusalem-in-modern-history/
Reviewed:

Created by PeleYoetz (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

PeleYoetz (talk) 08:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC).[reply]

PeleYoetz, I don't think having the word "Pictured" is needed. The picture is fine, but I would remove the pictured, sicne it is very specific. Personally I like alt1 better, but it is not cited in the article. This is a great article, keep up the good work! 48 JCL 12:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, 48JCL! I removed mentions of the word "pictured" and also trimmed the image caption. I added the info from alt1 to the article together with the source so it is now cited. Is everything else okay? PeleYoetz (talk) 20:48, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PeleYoetz This is a great article, I think nominating it for WP:Good Article status would be a plausible option.

Passing ALT1. 48 JCL 21:13, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:47, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cuisine of Jerusalem/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: PeleYoetz (talk · contribs) 11:34, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 13:11, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Small details

Extended content

is known for several iconic dishes - maybe reword, something like "has several distinctive dishes", as "iconic" seems to apply to almost everything nowadays.
- Fixed
Consider linking to Mediterranean cuisine, which may do better than typical of the Mediterranean climate.
- Done, along with a small change, thoughts?
bustling markets - maybe drop the "bustling", true of most street markets really.
- Done
Why is "Macaroni Hamin" capitalised?
- Fixed, changed Hamin to hamin
hamin (also known as cholent) - are these two stews the same or different? They link to 2 different Wikipedia articles. Maybe they should be merged? If they're the same, what's with the 2 links? Something needs fixing here.
- They are similar Shabbat dishes, hamin in the Sephardic version and cholent is the Ashkenazi one. Both are slow cooked overnight, but each has a bit different ingredients. I changed the text to say hamin (comparable to the Ashkenazi cholent).
including ... and more - one or the other, but not both!
- Fixed

Comments

Overall this is a clear, reliably-sourced account of the subject.

This is more a question than anything, but it does feel like a gap in the otherwise excellent coverage. Three paragraphs of 'History', and the lead, claim there are significant influences from various places and groups of people, without really spelling out what the influences were. What would be local Arab influences, for instance? What is distinctive about Sephardic food? Are there any dishes, sauces, or techniques identifiably from the Maghreb, Iran, Bukhara, Yemen, Kurdistan? If so, what are they? It would be nice to have specific examples, and ideally dates. Conversely, are there any dishes (etc) that developed locally in Jerusalem, or have been there for millennia? I wonder if a map might help, with dates and examples? See for example Curry for how that might be done and why it might help. Happy to discuss this, and indeed to help with graphics if that would be useful.

Images

All the images are on Commons and are plausibly licensed.

Article has 9 images in the text, followed by a "Gallery" section with 11 more images. This is perhaps rather a large number, but more troubling is the unsorted nature of "Gallery": the obvious question is "what's it for?", given that the text is already illustrated. Better would be to include small galleries in "Main dishes" and in "Desserts" and to get rid of "Gallery"; indeed, you could have one with the street images in "History" – very likely, many of the existing Gallery images could be reused in those places.
- @Chiswick Chap: I believe that’s complete. Any feedback would be appreciated. PeleYoetz (talk) 19:21, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, ok, I see you've decided against galleries per individual section. Personally I'd prefer that but it's probably not a pass/fail matter, however advisable it may be. I do think that having the images running down into the References is untidy but I'll leave that for you to sort out "in slow time" later. I hope you have found the review useful; I'm happy to pass this as a GA now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:46, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Extended content

Article is fully cited.

The 2 refs in the lead section should be moved from there.
- Fixed
Sources in Hebrew should be marked with |language=he-IL, and the titles of those sources should be translated in a |trans-title= parameter.
- Done
The "rp" notation with a page number after a ref [33] is used only once; it would be desirable to put this page number into the citation. I note that [33] Ottolenghi is cited twice, in the same paragraph; the first usage has no page number, so ideal would be to put two page numbers into the citation, i.e. |pages=xyz, 174.
- Done
Spot-checks are fine.

[11] Samuni (Rolls) lacks lacking publisher/website, date; could also have author (i.e. last, first).
- I add the details of the publisher, Asif. Unfortunately they don't usually mention the author on their articles.
It might be helpful to wikilink the newspapers cited (inside the citations), e.g. The New York Times, The Jerusalem Post, The Times of Israel. And an honorary newspaper, NPR.
- Done
Conversely, it's hard to see the point of writing The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com. - the name is sufficient, we don't need to repeat it abbreviated as a web address.
- Fixed

Summary

This is a fine article and I hope to see it at GA soon. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Language

I think the language in this article needs to be edited to be more encyclopedic. Currently it sounds a lot like a tourism guide. Rainsage (talk) 23:42, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't seem too bad to me, and looks like it passed a GA Andre🚐 23:47, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For example, this paragraph is just a list of ice cream shops that aren't notable enough to have their own wikipedia pages and features language that I would consider puffery (bolded).

Jerusalem features a variety of ice cream shops catering to different tastes. Mousseline is known for its silky French-style gelato and inventive flavors like basil and saffron, reflecting a local twist. Aldo, known for its Italian-style gelato made fresh daily, offers flavors such as pistachio and salted caramel, while providing a cozy atmosphere on Emek Refaim and other locations. Katzefet, a longtime favorite on Ben Yehuda Street, attracts visitors due to its creamy offerings and ample outdoor seating, featuring flavors like triple chocolate and the innovative chocolate beigele. Jetlek, influenced by European parlors, offers a more luxurious setting and extravagant ice cream creations like knafehblends. Tziga specializes in gourmet ice pops, or Tzigonim, with flavors such as pistachio-berry and peanut-butter-and-jelly, drawing enthusiasts from around Israel. Golda, a nationwide chain, also has branches in the city.

Rainsage (talk) 00:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a little puffy. I don't object to cutting that part. Andre🚐 00:08, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

can I delete this whole paragraph or is there something that you think we should keep? Rainsage (talk) 02:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'm not sure that the cuisine of Jerusalem's ice cream shops need much, maybe a sentence or less if there's a source for it. Andre🚐 02:45, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the only article I could find is this, which I don't think demonstrates that Jerusalem has a notable ice cream industry, so I would like to delete the paragraph: https://www.jpost.com/food-recipes/article-748199 Rainsage (talk) 01:48, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think maybe you could distill that down to something that paraphrases this quote, Israel is now a global leader in the ice cream industry, but the local market is competitive. While Jerusalem had relatively few quality ice cream parlors a decade ago, the city is now full of top-notch parlors with flashy marketing, creative flavors, and amazing experiences. Obviously less puffery. Maybe just a sentence like "Jerusalem in the last decade has opened a number of ice cream parlors. Andre🚐 01:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

that doesn't seem like a particularly notable fact, but I guess it's better than what's currently there. Rainsage (talk) 22:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scope

Of course, cuisine of cities do not care about geopolitical realities, but there is something uneasy about how this article is framed: as a bicultural unified city, which is an Israeli POV. Not sure how to reflect geopolitical realities without going into politicization of food, so this is a tricky situation in all honesty. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:02, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No way out but through. I'd say embrace that and have sections about East Jerusalem. Or when possible, interleave the material. I think you can cover the tension between the salad bowl and the melting pot without getting too far down the path of politicization. Andre🚐 02:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]