Talk:Craig yr Aderyn

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On 4 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Birds' Rock. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Cultural Associations

The writer Susan Cooper leads her characters to "Bird Rock" in her book, "The Grey King," from the Dark is Rising Sequence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.155.75 (talk) 00:43, 2 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 4 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Material Works (contribs) 10:53, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Craig yr Aderyn → Birds' Rock – per WP:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Use English. There have been false suggestions in the past that this name is incorrect, or not used at all, but the name is shown as Birds' Rock on the OS map, and a Google search shows numerous references to it with the English title. — Voice of Clam (talk) 12:41, 4 April 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 02:26, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Not exactly sure OS should be soley used to determine place names,[1] or we'd be using Aberdovey[2] or Y Bala.[3] Not sure what search you performed, I found many sources [4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13] that use "Craig yr Aderyn" in primacy (non-bracketed, first and used mostly solely through the rest of the body) even when the entire source is in English, including sources used in this article,[14][15] indicating per Use English If a native name is more often used in English sources than a corresponding traditional English name, then use the native name and per WP:COMMONNAME. There are also various translations used in English, "Birds' Rock", "Bird's Rock", or "Bird Rock". The existence of the latter may call for a disambiguator. Sources for Bird(s' / 's) Rock I can find are smaller in number.[16][17][18][19], until it heads to an Australian peak of the same name.[20] or an Aus Flora Reserve[21], or an Aus Colliery[22], which if deemed to be highly potential articles may require this one to be disambiguated if moved, although I doubt those are articleworthy. Craig yr Aderyn is also the main name for the corresponing SPA[23] and SSSI.[24][25] Therefore I do not find clear evidence "Birds' Rock" is the more popular name in English, even when excluding Welsh authoritative sources which would obviously prefer Welsh names. If evidence of the contrary is found, then I would reconsider my vote. Although I would support reformatting the lead as "Craig yr Aderyn, also known as Birds' Rock" rather than have it in brackets as it is used and not incorrect, if past discussions argued as such. Dank Jae 01:49, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@DankJae: My argument was based on the opening sentence of Use English: When a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it, but I take your point re WP:COMMONNAME. With regard to use of OS maps for the name, WP:WIAN states that maps (printed or electronic) are almost always reliable if they are current. Note that the use of the English name on the OS map is not the sole method of determining the placename - as your links point out, Birds' Rock (or variations thereof) is used in a number of publications when referring to this hill. — Voice of Clam (talk) 06:50, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Voice of Clam, note the use of "widely", OS is only one source and "English" does not necessarily mean originating in English but what is used in English publications. While Birds' Rock is used in a number of publications that I linked, in more of them the current title is given primacy. Clearly Craig yr Aderyn is the more widely accepted name if based on my rough research. Dank Jae 09:21, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.