Talk:Clayton Kershaw/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Clayton Kershaw/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Muboshgu (talk · contribs) 15:32, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

I got this one. As we discussed on my talk page, I'm sufficiently free from any personal COI as I haven't been a major contributor to this page. And, since it's Spanneraol's first GA nom, I'll give this a good, thorough review and make him a regular GA participant. I won't complete my review for a few days though. Got a busy day at work tomorrow. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:32, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Time to get started...

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is clear and concise, without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

LEAD and INFOBOX

• The first paragraph is only one sentence, which isn't really adequate. Something else should be here. The last paragraph of the lead is kind of skimpy itself. Perhaps the answer here is to merge the two. Per WP:MOSBEGIN, it should be general, with nothing too specific. Maybe just add he's a left hander and when he made his MLB debut. I'm not sure yet if the Koufax comparison is too specific, since the lay reader might not know who Koufax is. Take a look at some GAs and FAs to see how their leads are structured. Fixed - reworked lead.. let me know if this works better. Spanneraol (talk) 15:49, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Lead looks great! – Muboshgu (talk) 19:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
• ERA should be spelled out, innings pitched wikilinked. Does not need to be abbreviated since it's only used once in the lead (as far as abbreviations go, the lead and the body are treated as separate entities) Fixed
• The image needs a caption Fixed

SECTION HEADERS

Early career: 2008–2010

2011 Season: Cy Young Award

2012 season: Cy Young Runner-up

2013 season

• These section headers should be uniform one way or another, whether that's putting the year(s) first or a title first. Also, "season" shouldn't be capitalized Fixed

EARLY LIFE

• Highland High School... where is that? Is there anything about his life before high school? Was he always from the Highland HS area or did he move as a child? Did he play little league baseball, or do anything else before high school that's worth noting? Fixed - expanded section with more on his early life. Spanneraol (talk) 04:07, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
• Link prospect to Prospect (sports) Fixed
• Spell out ERA, link to win-loss record (pitching) and innings pitched Fixed
• An "all strikeout perfect game"? That sounded to me like he struck out all 27 batters he faced. I clicked the link and saw it was 15 batters. That should be expanded on in the article so we know he did indeed strike out all 15 batters he faced. Fixed
• MLB abbreviation used before the full name is spelled out in the body. Fixed
• "best high school pitcher available" CN  Fixed

This is covered in the draft tracker reference at the end of the next sentence, does it need to be listed twice? Or I should I find an additional reference for it?Spanneraol (talk) 22:40, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

• You're right, it is. It's vague though. Can you find anything better about who considered him the best available high school pitcher? Baseball America, perhaps? MLB.com rankings? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:29, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

• The Baseball America ref I've already used a bunch has that in it also so i've put that in there... it seems to be a consensus opinion that he was the top high school pitcher. Spanneraol (talk) 22:16, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

• Space between period and reference. This happens a few times in the article Fixed - I think i caught all of these. Spanneraol (talk) 15:32, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
• Don't pipe out University from Texas A&M. Maybe add something more about where he accepted a scholarship from Texas A&M before saying he spurned them Fixed
• "The bonus was the largest to any Dodgers amateur" Missing a word Fixed

MINOR LEAGUE CAREER

• Per MOS:CONVERSIONS, best to give both the standard and metric versions for mph. The {{convert}} template can convert mph into kmh for our non-American friends Fixed

I looked over the documentation for that template but it isnt too easy to figure out so i'll have to come back to this... never heard anyone use kmh for the speed of a baseball pitch. Spanneraol (talk) 04:38, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

They do in Japan. I know it's not the American way, but GA articles need to be accessible to the entire world. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

• I didn't see anything about the abbreviation "no." for "number" on Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations, so I'm gonna follow my gut and come out against it. Change to "best" and "second best", or something similar Fixed
• "5 starts" numbers less than 10 should be spelled out Fixed
• "He was then called up to the majors, but optioned back to Jacksonville on July 2, 2008." When was he called up? I get that the minor league and major league careers are separated, but when the timeline gets broken up like this by promotions and demotions, it gets confusing to follow. Fixed

EARLY CAREER

• A link that appears to go to 1995 should instead be clear in that it's going to the 1995 season article Fixed
• "Phillies" shouldn't be piped Fixed
• "6⅔ IP" IP as an abbreviation has to be introduced Fixed - got rid of the abbreviation, didnt like it anyway.Spanneraol (talk) 02:12, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
• Odd that the Giants being rivals is introduced the second time you mention the Giants. Fixed
• Ace (referring to Lincecum) should be linked to Ace (baseball) Fixed
• Should introduce abbreviations for NL and NLCS, as they will be reused Fixed
• Pronouns shouldn't lead a paragraph Fixed

2011 SEASON

• Per MOS:IMAGELOCATION, avoid placing a left aligned image at the beginning of a section. Fixed
• Also, this image itself is not the best. I had to squint to see him and click on it to really see him. I found some more images on Kershaw with the Free Image Search Tool, so those can be integrated into the article. Fixed
• "Kershaw finished the 2011 season with 21 wins, 248 strikeouts and a 2.28 ERA, winning the NL pitching Triple Crown" It should be stated that he led the league in each of these categories so that it's clear what the Triple Crown is Fixed
• "233 1/3 innings pitched" unconverted fraction Fixed
• "TSN" abbreviation needs to be introduced Fixed
• WHIP appreviation needs to be spelled out as well Fixed

More to come... – Muboshgu (talk) 20:09, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I didn't mean for a whole week to pass before I continued. My apologies, but life has been kinda hectic lately. Onward... – Muboshgu (talk) 18:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

2012 SEASON

• After a full date, a comma is needed after the year (minor thing, but good to take note of) Fixed
• I'd split that first sentence in two. It's a bit of a run-on. Fixed
• Opening Day should be capitalized Fixed
• A sentence that starts "On September 4" before a sentence that starts "On August 11". Should be made chronological, and given WP:PROSELINE, should be careful to start off two consecutive sentences in that manner Fixed
• The abbreviation "LA" is common enough for Los Angeles that I know it immediately, but not everyone will, necessarily Fixed
• "4th" to "fourth", "2nd" to "second", "5" to "five" Fixed

2013 SEASON

• Years appear linked, but they are season articles. Linked text should read "XXXX season" to be clear to the reader Fixed
• Need a comma after "April 17, 2013" Fixed
• "2nd" to "second", "6" to "six", "4" to "four" Fixed

PITCHING STYLE

• "Kershaw pitching style" grammar Fixed
• "Unique leg kick" isn't justified by the source that follows those sentences Fixed - got rid of the "unique" bit and found source for his leg kick.
• Velocities converted to kmh for our non-American friends, per above Fixed, though it seems clunky like this
• Space between sentence stop and [77] Fixed

AWARDS AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS

• Should use × rather than "x" to denote multiples Fixed

PERSONAL

• Commas after Walden and Stafford. Well, the one after Walden is optional. I'm a fan of the serial comma, but you don't have to be Fixed
• "the main reason he wears number 22 is due to Clark" reads a little awkward to me. I assume this is "in honor of", and not because Clark told him to. Fixed
• His great uncle discovered Pluto? What a small world (pun not intended). Anything about his father? Siblings (if any)? Mother's job? Fixed - no siblings, cant find anything on his mothers job though i added info on his dad. Spanneraol (talk) 22:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

HUMANITARIAN WORK

• There's an extra space here - "I Am Second. [98]" Fixed
• "Kershaw had a similar program in 2011" seems a little redundant since the 2011 program is talked about in the previous paragraph. These two paragraphs could be merged. Fixed
• "programs in Los Angeles such as Habitat for Humanity" comma missing. Also need one after "Lynwood, California" Fixed - reworded a bit as the language was clunky
• Clemente and Rickey award sentence should perhaps be two sentences. Maybe with a topic sentence that says something along the lines of "Kershaw has been recognized for his charity work"? Fixed

REFERENCES

• All have access dates. Excellent
• Refs 41, 60, 75-77 missing work/publisher Fixed
• Ref 88 is to blogspot. I'm a little uneasy about that. Is there a firmer source for his playing with Stafford? Fixed - already had one from earlier, duplicated here

I'll come back to check on the article this afternoon. Got some work to do now. Depending on how it reads, I may pass it, or I may find some other issues I didn't find the first time. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

One issue remaining

I'm still uncomfortable with the statement "Kershaw was considered the top high-school pitcher available", when BA only says he was "considered a cinch first-round pick, and possibly the first high school player selected". Either change the statement to be more in line with what BA said, or find something more concrete that he was the consensus best high school pitcher available. After that, I think we're good here. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Found a couple of better sources for that, one from SI and one from scout.com that both mention him as the top high school pitcher. Spanneraol (talk) 19:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok, those look good. One more thing I just noticed, Ref 77 is to wordpress.com, which isn't any better than blogspot for our purposes. Can you find something for that point in a source that's beyond reproach? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:28, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I didn't write this section originally and i've been trying to avoid having to rewrite it but the only sites i could find that discussed his leg kick were baseball blogs... and since those dont work, i have taken the whole thing out and rewrote the lead using a source from fangraphs. Spanneraol (talk) 20:00, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I understand. Fangraphs I'm okay with because I know their quality.

I hope this process hasn't been too arduous. The review itself was a bit longer than many because the article is fairly long. Anyways, that's my way of saying congratulations! I'm passing the article. Good work. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:59, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Not too bad... I know what to look for next time now.. Thanks. Spanneraol (talk) 18:52, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Date of NL 2014 Cy Young Award

He was announced as the NL Cy Young Award Winner on November 13, 2014.

Not true.. the MVP award was on the 13th, the cy young on the 12th. Spanneraol (talk) 04:42, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

The date is unimportant. Ten years from now (hell, ten days from now) nobody will care if it was Nov 12 or Nov 13. They'll only care that he won. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:39, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

But having actually looked at the page, it's presented well, so I won't touch it. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:41, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Saturday

@EricEnfermero: In regards to disputing my conributions, I don't think there is anything wrong with disclosing which day of the week Clayton's birthday fell. 108.27.63.106 (talk) 03:54, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Sorry - I just addressed it on your talk page. My personal opinion about Saturday is irrelevant, as Template:Infobox baseball biography specifies the syntax for the date of birth field - just the date. EricEnfermero (Talk) 03:58, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

MOS:DATEFORMAT does not include using days of the week. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:39, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Agree with the others. No consensus to change. Spanneraol (talk) 04:47, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I've administered the 3RR warning to the IPs talk page. If the IP reverts again, we go to the 3RRNB. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:52, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Looks like he opened a dispute already.. does not understand policy at all. Spanneraol (talk) 04:55, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

@Spanneraol: We realize that this might be spanneraol's favourite page to edit, but you need to stop biting newcomers and dismissing our conributons as irrelevant. We know you'd prefer to leave out the day, but there is no rule that expressly forbids adding the day.—Anonymous (talk) 13:28, October 14, 2015‎

So now you're editing from two separate IP addresses. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:29, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I edit from a smartphone so it constantly changes . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymous (talk) 17:47, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

It is against consensus to add the day... and on wikipedia we work with consensus. You have not had one person agree with your position and you cant just keep inserting your preferred version over everyone elses comments. Spanneraol (talk) 18:06, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

To WP:3RRNB we go. The changing IP addresses are a complication they can handle. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:23, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Evaluating Articles and Sources

The information presented on Clayton Kershaw's Wikipedia page is presented in a neutral perspective while giving the reader key information about the pitcher's career. Despite the amount of success Clayton Kershaw has had in the MLB, the article is not presented with any bias towards the player and only states the facts about the pitcher. Since statistics play a heavy role in professional sports, the wikipedia page contains a lot of citations, in which the editors of the article have done a good job with. All the statistics were properly cited and references. Most of the articles come from independent sources, such as US Today or Yahoo Sports, which would show no bias (only neutrality) towards Clayton Kershaw himself. However, as I was looking through the sources, there was one source, Jr. Dodger's Blog, that could have potentially shown bias as it was source for the Los Angeles Dodgers, which is Clayton Kershaw's team. Fortunately, the information cited from that blog shows information about Kershaw's personal life and not any bias towards hi career. Overall, I clicked on a couple of the citations and all the links were functioning well. After making comparisons with the articles and the Wikipedia page, there seemed to be no indications of plagiarism or close paraphrasing. Jcho53 (talk) 21:36, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

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I am critiquing this Wiki for a class. So please bear with my weird comments. I hope I am doing this correctly.
The article is quite neutral. It could mention plenty of pro-Kershaw or Dodgers or anti-Kershaw or Dodgers facts and it has none.
It is also very relevant to the source (Clayton Kershaw). It does not deviate off in any weird directions.
The resources all look to be from good upstanding sites: Sports Illustrated, ESPN, LA Times, and Baseball America to name a few.
I felt the Humanitarian section could use more work so I added in something about Kershaw's Ping Pong charity tournament.
Breese76 (talk) 05:20, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Couple of notes on your edit, which i cleaned up, its better not to use terms like "for the past five seasons" because that dates the article from when you made the edit.. better to use actual years "since 2013".. also use last names not first names as first names is too casual. Spanneraol (talk) 13:49, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the constructive criticismBreese76 (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

2020 stats

May make sense to add his 2020 season stats. --2604:2000:E010:1100:7970:6CEA:7159:A47A (talk) 10:18, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Add 2024 World Series champion for Kershaw?

Hello. Since the Los Angeles Dodgers won the 2024 World Series, is it okay to add the year 2024 as a two-time World Series champion in the infobox even though he didn't pitch in the World Series due to some sort of injury he had during the 2024 season? --Allen ^{(talk / ctrb)} 07:37, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

No, the policy is just to list them as world champions if they were on the world series roster. Spanneraol (talk) 12:25, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2024

I would like Clayton Kershaw's World Series totals to be updated 2× World Series champion (2020, 2024) DavidNewt (talk) 02:13, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done.. see above.. dont need to keep asking the same questions. Consensus is to only include it if they were on the WS roster. Spanneraol (talk) 02:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2024 (2)

Add the 2024 world series to his stats 2600:1012:A023:360E:7D9A:542E:701C:38C5 (talk) 18:18, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 18:28, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Spanneraol: Is this the discussion where WikiProject Baseball decided to recognize only players on the postseason/WS roster? Or is there a separate, better link with more concrete Support/Oppose/Consensus statements? It looks like this issue will continue coming up for a while so it may be a good idea to signal boost the original discussion.

And to clarify: Am I correct in stating that Wikipedia only recognizes guys on the WS roster, so people like Kiermaier who were on the postseason roster but not the WS roster don't get recognition? Namelessposter (talk) 18:33, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes to both questions. This comes up after every World Series and fades away after a few weeks. Spanneraol (talk) 18:58, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 November 2024

It shows that Kershaw only won a World Series in 2020 and not 2024. 2600:1700:940:74F0:5CE:DF6B:F4A6:CB08 (talk) 02:48, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

See the above conversation for clarity. Red Director (talk) 03:01, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 November 2024 (2)

2x World Series champion 2024 2600:8801:47FA:8740:C8CC:D1B2:CCCB:7997 (talk) 17:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Not done, for the reason addressed in the sections above. Larry Hockett (Talk) 19:00, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Then why is Reggie Jackson, who did not play in the 1972 World Series due to injury, listed as having won the 1972 World Series? 2603:8000:D003:A752:1D77:D21F:D35B:BB3C (talk) 19:23, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

That would be an error on his article. Spanneraol (talk) 21:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

That “error” has been there for years. Same with the “error” listing Sandy Koufax as a World Series champion in 1955 even though he didn’t pitch in that one. That particular “error” has been there for literally decades. I have a feeling these “errors” don’t go corrected because there is nothing to correct. 2603:8000:D003:A752:D1D2:EFB1:44A5:A7DD (talk) 14:04, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

They aren't errors. There is a difference between not appearing in the Series and not being on the roster. You give Sandy as an example. Well, he was on the roster of the 1955 World Series, present in the bullpen for each game and even warmed up a few times to enter. He was available for relief at any time. He just never made an appearence.

Its similar to how Austin Barnes and Andy Pages didn't appear either this World Series either but were available. Clayton was not on the roster at any time and was not available at all. Omnis Scientia (talk) 04:17, 4 November 2024 (UTC)