Talk:Celestial Empire

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Celestial Empire article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Requested move 18 October 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Treating this as a technical request to reverse a bold move, with the consent of the editor who moved the page. wbm1058 (talk) 13:01, 19 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dynasty of Heaven → Celestial Empire – To restore the original and correct title, which was moved with no discussion. The old/new title is the standard English title, which is used in the article itself and in the template, "Names of China." The Google Search "Dynasty of Heaven" finds mostly pages with the separate words, not the phrase; the Google Search "Celestial Empire" finds thousands of hits, including dictionary entries.

I would simply move the page back, but the title is blocked by the redirect to the disambig page.

The argument that the title should be what one reader translates from the Chinese is possibly good faith but bad reasoning. 冏 is making a number of such moves, as explained on his or her userpage. ch (talk) 17:09, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK. What you said is very reasonable and fair. I agree with you. let's turn this page back.--冏 (talk) 03:35, 19 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

I'm not sure what the best lead sentence for this article is. I'll leave that to others, to either restore the previous lead, or tweak it some way. wbm1058 (talk) 13:16, 19 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Come on. You are so polite~! You did a suitable judgment. --冏 (talk) 14:16, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

incorrect info

"Cathay, or Hua Xia." This is incorrect, Cathay actually comes from "Kara Khitai" which would be 喀喇契丹 in Chinese, see https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Cathay E7A986E4BA91 (talk) 19:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"theory calls China's first dynasty Xia and argues that anger means great and wonderful." This sentence also doesn't make very much sense. E7A986E4BA91 (talk) 19:53, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cheonjojeonmu?

I can't find a single citation about the "Cheonjojeonmu" system--I suspect Cheonjojeonmu may be a less popular Sino-Korean variant of a Chinese term in more popular use. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what that original Chinese term is. Mingjai (talk) 18:42, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Land System of the Heavenly Dynasty, which translates to 천조전무제도(cheonjojeonmujedo) Hbghlyj (talk) 16:35, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

“Mediterranean”?

Article regularly uses the term “Mediterranean” where (I assume) “occidental” or “European” is meant. Interesting choice of words: maybe a translation of a Chinese usage, or an attempt to draw an analogy to the name Zhongguo? But it should be changed anyhow. No one writing in English would describe the foreign influences on 19th-century China as being “Mediterranean” in character. 2607:FB91:2DA5:85BF:F5FE:5CD0:ACE6:8B64 (talk) 16:45, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First paragraph of History section doesn't make sense?

"In addition, even if China was politically unified, its territory and power declined, and during the heyday, the early days of the Han, Tang, and Qing, and the North and South Song periods, almost the smallest of the countries, during the period of the North and South Song, the territory and power declined even during the course of modern pre-modern history."

It doesn't seem to make any sense? 2001:8F8:192F:485F:4103:BF0C:FBB3:8585 (talk) 21:27, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taiping Heavenly Kingdom is a cult, not an empire.

"the Celestial empire, Taiping Heavenly Kingdom after occupying Nanjing and setting up the capital here. The system is rich in values that Chinese Celestial emperors have pursued in history." The Celestial empire of what? This is a successful cult that attempted a coup. it's not an empire of anything, nor is it "rich in values of any history". There's no basis for this conclusion. 58.152.132.147 (talk) 07:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]