Talk:Cadusii

Dubious

Ctesias's story is not to be trusted - this article needs modern sources. Doug Weller (talk) 15:58, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

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Cadusii are scythian tribe

https://books.google.de/books?id=y1Hwt3wkC-gC&pg=PA179&dq=Cadusii+or+Cadrusi++Whose+Scythic+character+is+nearly+certain&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjdktXCqPPrAhXR-aQKHXYyB5oQ6AEwA3oECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=Cadusii%20or%20Cadrusi%20%20Whose%20Scythic%20character%20is%20nearly%20certain&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=0lE-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA37&dq=Cadusii+++Whose+Scythic+character+is+nearly+certain&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjn5KjTqPPrAhVJzqQKHZ0mAcEQ6AEwB3oECAkQAg#v=onepage&q=Cadusii%20%20%20Whose%20Scythic%20character%20is%20nearly%20certain&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=K2dGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA136&dq=Cadusii++tribe+of+scythian&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0zISVqvPrAhXGqqQKHcuyDTEQ6AEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=Cadusii%20%20tribe%20of%20scythian&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=KGM-AAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA139&dq=Scythic+tribe+of+cadusii&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjU5ODFrvPrAhUDCewKHUURDW8Q6AEwBXoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=Scythic%20tribe%20of%20cadusii&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=K2dGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA136&dq=Scythic+tribe+of+cadusii&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVne2or_PrAhVlMewKHa9vByc4FBDoATAJegQICBAC#v=onepage&q=Scythic%20tribe%20of%20cadusii&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=hQM-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA301&dq=Scythic+tribe+of+cadusii&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiq6uq_r_PrAhUG3qQKHQClB7I4HhDoATADegQIBRAC#v=onepage&q=Scythic%20tribe%20of%20cadusii&f=false

Those sources aren't good. Please see WP:RS and especially WP:AGE MATTERS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:57, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

I can not understand why Cadusii are not Iranian people? All old german sources write about Cadusii like Scythian. Azerbaijan destroyed our histry but why Iran do not help us with sources and because of this situation i am very sad. Which author wrote right information?

If Cadusii are non Iranian people then Talysh people too do not iranian except talysh language?! many Russian old histrorian wrote about Cadusii like scythian , but under Cadusii used Gelae people. Ahmad Kesravi wrote cadusii were ancestors talysh people and he said azari old talysh language or has connection. If Cadusii non iranian people then who owns the language of the Talysh? Роман Арабов (talk) 20:39, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Cadusii were iranian tribe from german source

https://books.google.de/books?id=V9marTqziYQC&pg=PA192&dq=kadusier+iranischer&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj4te3vovfrAhVIM-wKHfRWBecQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=kadusier%20iranischer&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=1UHRpPz07Q4C&pg=PA347&dq=Kadusier++sprache&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjezo_pp_frAhWBMewKHR0uCTgQ6AEwA3oECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=Kadusier%20%20sprache&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=yRoQAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA48&dq=Kadusier+wurzel&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisy6W5qPfrAhXQDOwKHYaxAgcQ6AEwAXoECAkQAg#v=onepage&q=Kadusier%20wurzel&f=false Роман Арабов (talk) 08:39, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Kadoúsioi Iranian tribe

https://books.google.de/books?id=qzAOAQAAMAAJ&q=Kado%C3%BAsioi&dq=Kado%C3%BAsioi&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKjYb6hoXsAhWS66QKHavDD-YQ6AEwAnoECAIQAg https://books.google.de/books?id=xxlSAQAAIAAJ&q=CADUSII++an+Iranian+tribe&dq=CADUSII++an+Iranian+tribe&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjN1vyaiIXsAhVLzKQKHbSfCOsQ6AEwBXoECAQQAg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Роман Арабов (talk • contribs) 20:19, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Not WP:RS either. Can you please stop creating more and more sections? You can just post it in the same section. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:00, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Various issues

This article suffers heavily from WP:RS, WP:AGEMATTERS, WP:PRIMARY, WP:VER and plausibly even WP:POV issues and needs to rewritten from scratch. For example, the vast majority of the cited "sources" are from the 19th-century, what gives? HistoryofIran (talk) 15:41, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

This give that Cadusii was scythian tribe and if u do not know who are cadusian kings than i can nothing disscus with you. 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 17:06, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Cadusii same Gelae tribe and gelae is scythian tribe and now tell me please why you deleted my sources? If cadusii an iranian tribe than cadusii 100% belong to scythic origin. Because Parsond is Afrasiab and Afrasiab was king of Turanian, Turanian are Scyhtian and this mean that cadusii was powerfull scythian tribe. 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 17:10, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

You're clearly not listening. First off, I literally explained why I removed those sources in my edit summary [1], which is related to the exact same concerns listed here. Secondly, how about you address the concerns I listed here instead of writing your own personal analysis? For example, the Gelae are not the same as the Cadusii [2] [3]. This is what happens when you make use of 2000 year old sources. The whole article needs to be rewritten from scratch. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:31, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't believe Iranica, because iranica say that cadusii tatarian and etc. Gelae and Cadusii same, because you did not read Harmatta or Marquart, Cadusii and Cadiseni same. I can write more about it, but u do not want agree that cadusii was scythian tribe. Cadusii, gelae, white Huns, Cadiseni and medes are different names of one tribe. If you want to write this article you can do it, but i add my sources again. Iranica say Cadusii and Maciya are different names but Friedrich Wilhelm König say backwards. How i can believe Iranica? 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 18:15, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, but that's your own problem. Iranica is a reliable source, we're not gonna stop using it because it contradicts your views. Saying that the Cadusii, White Huns, Medes, etc all equal each other is WP:OR, if not utter nonsense. And no, I will not let you add "your own sources" again. The WP:POVFORK era of this article is over. If you continue, I won't hesitate to report you for violating so many of our rules, including blatantly misrepresentation of what sources say, such as Frye [4]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:21, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

i would believe you if you tell me about kings or leaders of clausii. But you just say cadusii and it is only the name. Why Iranica did not write about Onaphernes, Parsondes, Artagerses, Velenus? Why Iranica did not write that Afrsiab is name of Parsondes in Shahnameh? How i can believe iranica i do not know. For me just write cadusii was not iranian it is like joke 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 18:25, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

You can believe what you want to, but please don't try to inject it into the articles of this website. Moreover, Iranica articles are usually on the shorter side, they're not meant to cover every single detail about the subject they're talking about. I don't believe any source does that. Also, why are you not logged into your account? --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:27, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

I am not required to log in with my account. I just had to answer and I did it 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 18:50, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

You say just Frye is false but what u can say about Marquart? Pigulevskaya? Harmatta? What mean name of Cadusii ? why you deleting sources? how did you find out that many sources are false ? you can not give me answer you just delete sources. I can not believe you. You do not respect my opinion and just do what you want. 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 19:05, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

I couldn't access those sources, and I highly doubt those prominent figures would support such nonsense. Sorry, but especially after seeing this [5], I don't believe you one bit. Either you are heavily misinterpreting, or deliberately falsifying stuff, or perhaps a mix of both. So far everything I have seen has violated at least one rule, and I doubt that is going to change. And what do you mean by "false"? Please read the rules I posted above, I've literally explained it several times now. Sorry, but I don't care about your personal feelings. I'm rewriting this from scratch. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:10, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

How i can believe you i you wrote this "I just looked in the book of Frye (about the only work I could access out of those obscure, outdated sources) and guess what; He doesnt say that the Cadusii were Hephthalites, which is complete nonsense and next level pseudo-history, as is the rest of this article. "

And i see you use source of Frye? I did not understand you. I study Cadusii many years and when i see like you people i understand that you did read about cadusii nothing. You like iranica because irnica do not say who was king of cadusians or what mean the name of cadusii. Whay Parsondes, Onaphernes, Artagerses can not be in this article? 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 19:24, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Don not forget to adding the name of kings of cadusii. If you doing that than do please with quality and if you not adding the cadusian names i do that later. 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 19:28, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

I never said that Frye was unreliable, I said that you were blatantly misrepresenting him, as you have done with other sources. It's clear that you don't understand what I am saying. I'm not gonna bother try to explain stuff anymore. Just don't violate our guidelines any further, thanks. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:30, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Cadusii and Cadiseni are same tribes and if you saw that Frye wrote Cadiseni tribe of Hephthalites it is mean that Cadusii was tribe of Hepthalites. You give not comment about king of cadusii, because you know that i right. Cadiseni was tribe of Hepthalites and that mean that Harmatta is not wrong. I can not to write article

hier but i can say that you ignoring the topic of the leaders of the Cadusians. You can say about caadusii what do you whant but leaders is another way. 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 19:44, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

What do you want me to say about the "king of Cadusii"? Sorry, but half of what you are saying is not making any sense. Let me make it clear; I am not here to satisfy your needs. I follow whatever WP:RS says, not you. And no, Frye does not say that the Cadiseni are the same as the Cadusii, that is one of the many things you made up yourself. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:46, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

I want to see about cadusian king in you article. I did not say that Frye told about Cadiseni. You have to just look work of Janos Harmatta(János Harmatta. Chionitae, Euseni, Gelani // Acta Antiqua Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae. Volume 31 — Budapest: Akadémiai Kiadó, 1988. — P. 46-50. — 446 p.). Cadusii and Cadiseni same that did say Nina Pigulevskaya, but she repited what did Josef Markwart say(Joseph Markwart. Eranshahr. — Berlin, 1901. — P. 78.) 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 20:05, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes you did; "Most of the historians such as: Nina Pigulevskaya,[19] Josef Markwart,[20] Richard N. Frye,[21] János Harmatta,[22] Suren Yeremian,[23] Vladimir Minorsky[24] refer the Cadusii (Cadiseni) to the Hephthalites," Feel free to link the sources by the other figures, though I highly doubt that they will support what you're saying. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:16, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

This sources you can find and if you can not read german or russian, it is not my problem. i hate fake but what i did write i had find in different languages. Histoorians can write thousand name and say who was who, but i say you when you read about kings of cadusii you see another way. I can say short information about cadusii but what mean name of cadusii? what language did they speak and which religion did they have? Did you see work of Michael Morony? A group of people called Qadishaye or Kadisenoi had been settled in the Jabal Sinjar at the end of the Parthian period. In the fifth century they were still pagans and in the early sixth century they raided the countryside along with local Arabs. In the reign of Qubadh I they attacked Nasibin. By 578 some of the Qadishaye in the Sasanian army were Christians. The Qadishaye are identified variously as Kurds or Hephthalites.(See. Michael G. Morony. Iraq after the Muslim conquest — New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 2005. — p. 270. — 696 p. — ISBN 9781593333157.)

And hier you can see that Kadisenoi and Cadusii same tribe is. 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 20:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

If they are so easy to find, why don't you link them here? I can use Google Translate. I don't see Morony mention anything about the Cadusii in the quote. Greatrex doesn't mention the Cadusii either. These are all your personal interpretations because the names sound a bit similar to "Cadusii". This is sheer WP:POV. Please stop wasting my time. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:49, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Do not say me that you did not find what i say you. 2001:16B8:6C3:5100:7126:9F3D:D42E:952A (talk) 21:11, 13 December 2022 (UTC)