Talk:Breanna Yde

Nationality

Her verified Twitter account says born in Australia. Generally assumption is birth location is nationality absent some stated exceptional circumstance. Australia has a form of jus soli (Australian nationality law), not strict like the U.S. but still exceptionally unlikely won't be Australian. Dual nationality as American as well should have a reference showing naturalization. Her IMDb bio written by someone who purports to have the same last name says dual national but we can't use IMDb bios as a reference. Still adds some slight confirmation to the Australian part. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:55, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

WP:BLPLEAD has more to say about what should be in intro. Generally don't mention country of birth unless part of why notable. Nationality, citizenship or where permanent resident, when notable, is generally the adjective modifier on notable occupation but still needs to be referenced. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:06, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

The biography on her verified Facebook page mentions she is a dual citizen of Australia and the U.S. It also contains some other information. I don't have the time to add more things now, so I'll just leave this here for now. nyuszika7h (talk) 21:52, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

And there's also an article from Big City Kids (BCK) Magazine (see below her photo on the left side). nyuszika7h (talk) 16:15, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

These aren't the greatest sources, but I think this needs to be added to the article somehow... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:21, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Should be mentioned in the personal life section but phrased as she claims she is a dual national as it is from self-published sources and not backed up with anything other than her word and what she believes. Need fact checked info published in some other secondary reliable source. She didn't state when or how she became a US citizen. If recent her notable body of work was as an Australian. The whole thing sounds weird to me as she didn't say anything about how and why she is now also American. She may be making a statement of verifiable fact or she may not fully understand her immigration status and might be wrong. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:47, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, BCK Magazine is not self-published, it's just republished on her website. And the biography is written in third person and sounds like it was written by her manager/agent and not herself, but we also have that other article. nyuszika7h (talk) 18:52, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

I am considering it self-published information as it is a pure interview repeating her own words. The Magazine didn't write about her, they just asked questions and published what she directly said. However the article did assert dual nationality as a fact not part of the interview but I suspect they got the information directly from her. Would be nice to see more explanation somewhere of the how and why. Geraldo Perez (talk) 19:00, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There's also this and this from iPOP!, though they don't really say more on it either. nyuszika7h (talk) 19:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

We probably have enough to support dual national. The timing does sort of matter. She could be American by birth because of having American parents living outside the US and Australian by birth location to explain dual nationality. If that is the case, then the article should call her and consider her an American actress with her birth location nationality somewhat irrelevant. If she moved to the US in 2008 as the article claims and became naturalized after 2013 based on the 5 years that normally takes we should include Australian as part of her context description. I wish we had details. Based on a strict reading of WP:BLPLEAD, all her notable activies were as a US resident so that should be sufficient to call her an American actress in the intro section context with infobox showing both and explanation in the personal life section. Geraldo Perez (talk) 19:13, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

First revisiting

Geraldo Perez, Breanna Yde is not even an a American. She is Filipino-Australian. Jhan Alino (talk) 21:49, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Do you have a source to indicate that she doesn't have U.S. citizenship?... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:59, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@Jhan Alino: You make that assertion but didn't back it with references. Anyway we don't put an ethnicity, even if true, in intro per WP:OPENPARA. She is definitely Australian by birth, maybe American by naturalization or parentage, or possibly both, but definitely not a citizen of the Philippines. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:01, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Are you a big fan of Breanna Yde Geraldo Perez? Jhan Alino (talk) 22:05, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Jhan Alino: I fail to see the relevance. This is just another bio article that I like to see have correct, well-referenced information. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:07, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

And also go to YouTube and find Her youtube channel: Breanna Yde and watch Q & A with Breanna Yde Jhan Alino (talk) 22:06, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Second revisiting

@Geraldo Perez: Based on this discussion, would you support the recent attempt by an IP to call her "an Australian-American actress" in the lede?... If not, do you have any suggestions on how this should be handled now? TIA. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:36, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

No, I would not support Australian-American as that is an ethnicity tag that just says she is an American with Australian ancestry and not necessarily a dual national. I would prefer American and Australian actress as that is unambiguously dual national if we chose to go this way. What we really should do is just consider her an American actress as that is where she lived since age 2 and where all her notable activities occurred. That is the most conformant to MOS:BIO § Context. Change the categories to match and leave mention of her Australian birth in the personal life section as it really has little relevance otherwise. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:33, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

 Done --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:48, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) To add to my previous comment: checking her verified facebook page she herself asserts dual national which is sufficient to include that in the article. We can add that to the personal life section using that reference as a self-published source WP:ABOUTSELF and not self-serving. Add to infobox nationality attribute both nationalities and either state "American and Australian actress" in intro and categories or my preference just "American actress" (which I see IJBall did) for both based on where her notable stuff happened. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:54, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Breanna Yde is not an Australian actress. She is indeed an actress who was born in Australia, but she immigrated to America when she was two and has only ever worked as an American actress. The phrase Australian actress implies that she worked as an actress in the country of Australia. That is factually incorrect and should be removed.72.130.22.43 (talk) 21:52, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Date formats at article

I have restored this article's original 'mdy dates' format that were changed in September 2016 without discussion. While the article subject may have been born in Australia, this appears to effectively a formality, as she is primarily known as an "American actress" (i.e. roles have all been on American TV shows, and she shows no trace of a foreign accent, and apparently was raised in the U.S.). Additionally, article and reference date formats should not be changed without discussion and consensus as per WP:DATERET (WP:DATETIES does not overrule that in a marginal case such as this one) and WP:CITESTYLE (and WP:CITEVAR). So there needs to be discussion before the date formats are changed away from the original, which I have restored in the meantime. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:15, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Start

I know this article is not a big article full of details but it is a good Start and it does have some information and the information provided is all properly referenced. It doesn't take much to be Start class, and this article is already not a Stub. Look at documentation, the requirements are not high. -- 109.79.182.247 (talk) 02:58, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Non-stub articles should be about 10 or more sentences. This article has 5 sentences. Maybe if somebody writes up a proper 'Career' section, this article may get past 'Stub'. But it's not there now... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:40, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Malibu Rescue

IJBall she DID act as one of the important characters in Malibu Rescue and is the ONLY movie\show on Netflix with her acting in it. I understand that you did not state the fact that she wasn't in it I'm just saying this in general for the knowledge of other people. Elise Dances (talk) 21:24, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

The way it was added to the lede was clunky – it should be in there, in a form something like, "...and for playing Gina in the Netflix series Malibu Rescue."

But the fact is, this whole article needs work – the entire lede needs to be rewritten, and a 'Career' section needs to be added.

Education

What school does she go too Mileage Mdluli (talk) 22:41, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Music Career

Hello. Apologies for making edits that seemed disruptive; that was definitely not my intention. I wanted to add information on her music career, and I clearly overstepped. But if you'll look at Breanna's verified Twitter account, you can see that it's primarily promoting music (her old account under her full name is being held by a fan as a placeholder). I thought linking to her recently released digital single and her official bio on Spotify would affirm this shift. Again, many apologies! -- Mauradotcom (talk) 20:19, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

References

Singer

Why wouldn't we add her singer career to her Wikipedia page. It seems to be the main thing she is focused on at the minute. And she has kind of seemed to change her entire brand / look for it so it seems significant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommyhetrick (talk • contribs) 03:32, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Because what a WP:BLP is doing at the moment on their social media isn't inherently notable – it has to receive independent coverage to actually be notable. Whatever she is doing musically is not ledeworthy right now. Whether it should be covered in the rest of article depends on whether legitimate WP:RS are covering it or not – not fansites, etc. but actual secondary coverage.

As it is, this article is entirely missing a 'Career' section, so if someone wants to improve it, they should actually work on that first. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:38, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I mean... yes there are a few — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommyhetrick (talk • contribs) 03:41, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm about 100% sure that celebsecrets.com is considered WP:NOTRS. Hollywoodlife.com is, I think, borderline – I'd have to check WP:RSN. But, my personal opinion? – I would want to see stronger sourcing than this or "teen mags" before adding it to the article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:46, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Here are some more TømmyHetrick (talk) 03:51, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I generally think Refinery29 is OK to use; not sure about papermag.com. This is probably enough now to add a sentence on this to a 'Career' section, using Refinery29 and one of the other two as sourcing. But it's definitely not ledeworthy until an artists charts. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:07, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I also think Teen Vogue and Billboard qualify as reputable sources for her music career. Jemgrrrl (talk) 06:33, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I will do some cleanup on your addition later. Also, I'm not sure about the two primary sources – hopefully some of the secondary sources talk about the record label instead. Note also: This doesn't mean that "singer" should be put in as a "career" yet – she is still only notable for her acting at this time. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 07:26, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

ok thank you. Totally understandable about not adding singer as her career yet. As for the record label, her new official website I linked as a reference is copyrighted by Warner Records. Her bio on her official Spotify lists Warner Records as well. As does the bio on her official music Facebook page. I will add that as well since her official acting Facebook page has been used as a reputable source elsewhere on her Wiki page. Jemgrrrl (talk) 08:06, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I found this ABC News feature from 2017 that refers to her as an “actress AND singer”. Is this a notable enough source to add “singer” to her “career”. The Nickelodeon tv series she was a lead on from 2016-2018 “School of Rock” was a musical and she sang and played bass guitar on the series. So she was known as a singer/musician prior to releasing her own solo music. Not sure if Seventeen Magazine is considered a reliable source (I think it should be as it’s been in some form of distribution since 1944. It’s certainly not The NY Times but it’s legitimate) but this 2019 article talks about her musicianship as well: “Although she's mostly known for singing and playing the bass in School of Rock, she also knows how to play the guitar, drums, piano, and ukelele.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jemgrrrl (talk • contribs) 10:56, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Not for the purposes of Wikipedia – it's notable career when she's truly independently notable for it. With singing, that is generally when she charts somewhere. Absent that, in terms of Wikipedia, the subject would simply be "an actress", who sings (on the side). The truth is, there aren't very many Ariana Grandes out there. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:48, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

References

"Child actress" vs. "actress"

I'm OK with either notation in the lede, as I've noted at least a couple of editors remove "child" recently, after Yde turned 18. I will say, though, that "actress" encompasses her whole career, whether or not she has any adult roles. Thus, for me at least, I see no reason to revert the removal of "child".

Now I know I'm going into WP:OSE territory here, but I remember a small discussion on Rowan Blanchard's talk page about almost the same thing a handful of years ago, about the use of "child actress" vs. "teen actress" in the lede of the article, when she was 13 and still on Girl Meets World. (Discussion here.) Geraldo Perez participated in that discussion, and he had no issue with removing "child" or "teen". I did point out in that discussion that there was no adjective at all in the ledes for Sabrina Carpenter and Peyton List, even though both were under 18 at the time. I've also noted that "child" (or "teen" for that matter) was not in the lede descriptions for Olivia Rodrigo and Jenna Ortega when they were on Disney Channel in Bizaardvark and Stuck in the Middle, respectively. (Examples from December 2017, [1][2], when they were active with these projects, and were both under 18.) The point is that the use of "child actress" or "teen actress" is not applied consistently across the various BLPs concerning those under 18, and from the consensus in these articles, "actress" is sufficient. (I'm getting the same vibe with the young male stars, where we could see "child actor" or "teen actor", or just simply "actor", stated in their Wikipedia article ledes, although I haven't confirmed that as yet.)

Just a little something to chew on, even though I will respect the WP:LOCALCONSENSUS regarding this matter. MPFitz1968 (talk) 23:01, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Child legally is everything under 18, but in most common usage people consider as meaning pre-teen so this is a bit touchy. For Yde she hasn't had any adult acting roles, so she is still notable for what she did prior to turning 18. When she gets credits as an adult, it would make sense to stop using the "child" modifier. Of course it isn't strictly incorrect to remove it now but it does label her as only notable for her non-adult acting roles. Geraldo Perez (talk) 23:12, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

No, "child actor/actress" should never be removed from the lede for anyone who was notable as such. It has nothing to do with the current age of the subject. Now, if a subject like this transitions to significant roles as an "adult" (which, frankly, is not currently the case for Yde), then the lede can be changed to something like "[So-and-so] is an American actress. She began her career as a child actress with notable roles in..." Basically, Shirley Temple is a template for a situation like this. But somebody doesn't cease to be notable as a "child actor" just because they turn 18 – this is a mistake that IP and other editors make over and over again, and it's really very annoying. And if other articles, especially something like Blanchard's or Ortega's don't mention that they began as "child actress", then the lede of those articles are objectively flawed. Meanwhile if a subject never has notable roles as an adult the lede should say something like "[So-and-so] is an American child actress..." or "[So-and-so] is an American former child actress. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:35, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

"Other editors believe the "child" adjective should be there until she has some more acting roles..." No, that's not it – she will always be a "child actress", which means that information should always be included in the lede. It's just that, in Yde's case, she's never even had "adult roles" either, so right now she's "only" a "child actress". But even if she books a major feature film role tomorrow, she will still have started out as a "child actress", and that will always need to be reflected in the lede. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:22, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

She appears to have stopped acting and is trying to start a music career. Not notable as a musician of any sort yet per WP:MUSICBIO so can't justify that as a notable occupation. Her notable activities stopped with her last acting role. She is a former child actress now. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:47, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Basically, yes. But we can't actually add the word "former", until she publicly states she has retired from acting. I'm guessing that is not going to happen. So the lede should stay as is now, until something changes... But my general point still applies to the other articles MPFitz1968 referenced – if the Rowan Blanchard, Sabrina Carpenter and Peyton List articles do not mention "child actress" in the ledes or anywhere else in the article, then those articles are objectively flawed in encyclopedic terms and should be corrected. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:01, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

I think 2 years is long enough to say she is no longer acting. She may never officially retire and likely never will give any sort of statement of that sort, but there is also no evidence she is getting work as an actress either. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:09, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

I prefer 3 years without a credited role before giving the 'years_active' an end-date, and sometimes even that isn't enough (e.g. Jodi Lyn O'Keefe, who apparently has started working again after a 3 year break...). If Yde has no roles through 2023, I would definitely support giving her 'years_active' an end-date at that point. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:39, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Also the article does state she is trying to start a music career which could be an indication she is not focusing on acting any more. I doubt she'd turn down roles that came her way but it appears she has other interests now. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:17, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

why is it always you two trying to gate keep everything 🤣 Whyryan? (talk) 23:19, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Citizenship statement sourcing

In the Personal life section, one sentence reads Yde has stated she is a dual citizen of Australia and the United States., and is backed by just one source accessed in 2017, her (verified) Facebook account, back then. Looking at that account now, it appears to have been cleaned out and is no longer an active account of hers, so effectively the sentence I mentioned from the article is no longer sourced, nor is the citizenship mention in the infobox. I am not sure how to handle this exactly ... remove the source and tag with {{cn}} or remove the content altogether. BLP policy leans toward the latter. MPFitz1968 (talk) 23:26, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

WP:DEADREF likely applies. The first thing to do would be to check the Wayback archive to see if they have an earlier version of the cite in question. If they don't, then it should probably be tagged with {{dead link}}(?), and possibly a {{citation needed}} or a {{Additional citation needed}} tag. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:52, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Tagged as {{dead link}}, as well as {{acn}}. Wayback Machine didn't have any archives of her Facebook content (which I actually checked before coming here). MPFitz1968 (talk) 02:15, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Edit reversion

Hey there, just noticed that my edits were reverted by MPFitz1968, which is fine. I'm just trying to build the page out and was attempting to start with de-cluttering the lede and infobox and hopefully providing better sourcing for some information. But, my ultimate goal is to create a slightly larger "Career" section that mentions both her acting and singing. From what I've seen, there seem to be enough sources that discuss her music career for it to at least be mentioned in the lede and later in the Career section, but I'm not attempting to diminish her acting (which it's clear she's better known for). It's just that most of the recent sources that discuss her career are focused on her music, so maybe I was a little influenced by recency bias when editing the lede/infobox. I made an additional edit in the Career section so you can see the direction I'm trying to go. Thanks Gargleafg (talk) 18:02, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

No problem, Gargleafg, as long as the proper weight is given to both her acting and music career. As far as the music side, hopefully her career will get bigger there, but gauging her lack of presence on the record charts right now (even if it's not something like the Billboard Hot 100 or 200) indicates this will take some time. MPFitz1968 (talk) 19:07, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi again. I noticed my edits were reverted for a second time. Again, no worries. I am simply trying to understand the rationale behind it. (I'll just tag everyone who seems to have some investment in this topic: Amaury, MPFitz1968, and IJBall). I am more-or-less familiar with the Notability rules on Wikipedia, but in this particular situation, I believe those rules don't necessarily apply based on WP:NNC. My rationale is that she is already notable and that a career shift toward music that is documented in several publications would warrant inclusion in both the lede and infobox (which seems to be the issue in contention here). It is not my intention to give undue weight to her music career, but it also does seem to be a (verifiable) fact that she is a musician. Of course, I'm open to any further discussion (and I'll refrain from editing the page until the issue is resolved). Thanks! Gargleafg (talk) 03:46, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

MPFitz1968 explains it above – Yde’s music career is currently not notable enough to include a Discography section because she has not charted anywhere. It would be WP:UNDUE. The article’s current coverage in prose is sufficient at this point. And that won’t change until she does something like chart somewhere. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:39, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

I see this discussion has been going on above since 2020. Back then, I would agree that her career as a singer was not notable. However, what she does and why she is notable for Wikipedia do not have anything to do with each other. She is currently a signer as referenced by Billboard, V Mag ("actress-turned-artist"), Hollywood Life ("Shift in her career"), and another Billboard reference. There are plenty of references out there and I do not see any guideline that says she has to have something charted in order to include it in her bio or that a song needs to chart to have a discography. We go by what the references say and the current press calls her a singer or artist so it is deserving to mention in the intro. --RTotzke (talk) 03:21, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

MOS:ROLEBIO and WP:NSINGER are what we are going with so far. Where something charted comes from. Also lack of significant coverage as a singer, just passing mentions. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:58, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

You have to have a notable career as such to merit mention in things like the lede. Currently, Yde does not have that, in terms of singer. See also what Geraldo says above. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:29, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

You do not have to have a notable career for inclusion at all. I also think we may differ on the opinion of a brief mention [3]. --RTotzke (talk) 02:49, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

It already is included – there is already a paragraph of prose at this article that covers her switch to singer/musician. The issue is whether it belongs in the lede and in the infobox – as of right now, it does not. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:05, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

And if it was required, a quick search would show she is notable as a musician based on significant coverage in reliable sources. --RTotzke (talk) 02:51, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict)WP:NSINGER basically says to exclude from notability weight publications where the singer basically talks about themselves such as the MTV interview cited above. Generally that is considered promotional by the artist. Would be a reasonable primary source of information otherwise. Significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject is a general notability requirement, but an interview isn't independent of the subject. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:01, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Notability and what she is known for are not necessarily the same. She earned notability for Wikipedia by her acting. But, if you Google and look at the sources, she is known as a singer. I see no reason why excluding that from the intro or excluding any sort of discography is an issue. --RTotzke (talk) 03:18, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

She has an article as she basically met WP:NACTOR and that is why actress is part of the notability assertion in the intro and in the infobox as a notable occupation. That she is a singer is not in dispute, it is whether or not singing is a notable occupation as opposed just a skill or a hobby or an attempt at a career. She appears to be trying make singing her new occupation. Basically lots of people try to break into singing as a career. Few actually make it. She gets noticed because of her acting fame, but would likely be ignored as a singer otherwise. Meet WP:NSINGER, though, and there would be no problems adding that as a notable occupation. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:39, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

I guess what I am saying is I respect your interpretation but I just don't agree with it. But, it is what it is. --RTotzke (talk) 03:38, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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• Breanna YDE.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

RfC on music career mention in lede

I see that further commentary about this topic has taken place, so I'll just pose the question here for a broader discussion. Given more recent sources about Yde's career, should the lede include mention that she is a musical artist as well as an actor? Gargleafg (talk) 18:50, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• No Her music career is currently not notable enough so it would be WP:UNDUE. This is a person who is known for being an actress. Nemov (talk) 19:26, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose – Nemov said what I've been trying to say for months better than I ever did! IOW, she is absolutely not notable as a "singer" or "musician" – if people know her at all, it's for being a (child) actress. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:42, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. As I stated previously MOS:ROLEBIO and WP:NSINGER are what we are going with so far for mention in intro. Test is if she ever charts. Also lack of significant coverage as a singer, just passing mentions. Geraldo Perez (talk) 19:45, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Just as the others have said, she lacks notability right now as a singer. She's strictly known for being a child actress — Python Drink (talk) 20:37, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose - Clearly she's trying to get a singing career off the ground, but her musical career is not yet notable enough to warrant inclusion. PraiseVivec (talk) 12:22, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose It's quite common for 'celebrities' to dabble in the music industry. So far, her works isn't paticularly noteworthy. See Kim kardashian she is not described as either an author or musician. EmilySarah99 (talk) 09:33, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Appears to be lacking significance. Lorstaking (talk) 12:16, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Singer (2)

this whole discussion is ridiculous. Wikipedia is meant to explore all aspects of a celebrities career.

First of all, Breanna Yde now wants to be known as YDE, this is her stage name and that should be respected. The fact that her music career is irrelevant ironically lacks relevance in this subject

Second of all, relevance doesn't mean anything, she is now a singer/songwriter in her own right moreso than an actress. I know people who only know her as a singer, so they would be very confused to search her name up and not find that she is a singer. It makes no sense, success shouldn't mean anything, she has clearly changed her whole appearance and name to not be known as a child actress anymore and its disrespectful for us not to acknowledge that

The picture is from 2016 when she was a child actress, she is now 20 years old when is this going to be updated

I tried to update this article and everything I did was deleted including "In May 2023 she announced she was recording a new album", why was this deleted? She did announce she was recording a new album 213.1.3.149 (talk) 20:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

See the RfC above regarding notability. If notability of her as a singer is not established thru significant coverage in reliable sources, and reflected in the body of the article as well, we don't mention it in the lede. MPFitz1968 (talk) 20:18, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

No it's not – Wikipedia is supposed to cover why a subject is notable. Actors who sing or dance are still notable for being (just) actors. You aren't notable for other skills or other pursuits until others notice you for those skills or pursuits. Plenty of child actors go on and do other things, but few are actually successfully enough to be notable for those other things. Shirley Temple is a rare example of someone who had a legitimate "second career". Most child actors simply go on to lead normal (IOW, non-notable) everyday lives – we don't report details of that here. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:53, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Okay, so let's say Macauley Culkin.

I think it's fair to say that he is more known as a child actor for Home Alone, Richie Rich & one or two other films that are that irrelevant I couldn't name them. He is not known for anything he has done since growing up. Does that mean we don't include any of his other films?

There will be many more examples like this, but we still take in account the aspect of someones career. Yes if a child actor goes on to live a normal life thats understandable who would care about them becoming a postman? But when they are still somewhat relevant and still getting their name in articles (which YDE has been doing, whether they're popular ones or not) they are still celebrity and these aspects of their career should be accounted for 2A00:23C8:5013:4701:9EB:DB70:1953:2548 (talk) 18:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure when it comes from the artist themselves it is very reliable. Is she not a reliable source for her own career? I understand that you don't want to cause confusion but the problem here is that by doing this could cause confusion.

As I said I know quite a few people who never knew she was an actress but love Blindlife. 2A00:23C8:5013:4701:9EB:DB70:1953:2548 (talk) 18:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

No, that's the whole point – if only the subject themselves is reporting something as a "thing", and no one else (i.e. mainline press/media) is reporting about that or following it, it is not worthy of inclusion. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:55, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

But I've seen articles report on it. Okay I admit they aren't popular articles, but they're part of he media nonetheless 2A00:23C8:5013:4701:6D95:CDC:EA72:96E2 (talk) 22:31, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Calling her a "child actress" does not work anymore

She is 20. She either is an actress, but not a child actress, or a former child actress. Calling her a child actress in the present tense does not make any sense.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:20, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree. If she is still acting she is now an adult actress who started as a child actress. If she has no adult acting credits she is a former child actress. Geraldo Perez (talk) 21:36, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Zach Sang Interview

She mentions here in this interview with Zach Sang that she was born in Randwick, New South Wales. Can we use this source here? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBMs99zUEIs 2600:100C:A20C:6C0F:7091:3CCC:3E1C:6A00 (talk) 02:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

It is an interview with her on a verified account and it is obvious she is the one being interviewed. WP:ABOUTSELF rules apply and we can use her statements about herself. If the video is used as a reference, it needs the exact timestamp in the cite to the information, don't expect reviewers to watch the whole video to verify the info is supported. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:11, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good to me 2600:100C:A20C:6C0F:7091:3CCC:3E1C:6A00 (talk) 04:49, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

“If the video is used as a reference, it needs the exact timestamp in the cite to the information, don't expect reviewers to watch the whole video to verify the info is supported.” as above, so change reverted. Nick Levine (talk) 05:07, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Note that a raw link to a YouTube video will be rejected per WP:RSPYT. The second paragraph there and WP:ABOUTSELF is justification to use that particularly video. However, it needs a full video source cite (see Template:Cite AV media) with timestamp and the edit summary should mention this discussion. Geraldo Perez (talk) 05:10, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

1. “and the edit summary should mention this discussion” so reverting (again)

2. Does this interview justify “Australian father of German descent and a Filipino mother”? Unless it does I think change should be reverted anyway.

Third time I have reverted this, so taking a back seat now. Nick Levine (talk) 05:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Great to have a proper cite with time specified. I did watch the video at the time range given and the info added was not supported with what she herself stated. Stuff the host stated can't be used, only her own words without interpretation. Geraldo Perez (talk) 05:34, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

This Article Is Wildly Outdated...

...as numerous sources have noted that she is fully Australian with American citizenship and that she's more of a musician NOW than a actress as she was years ago; despite providing said sources, they were reverted because....?

I don't imagine I'll even get a good answer even though I know the correct answer is "Wikipedians are helicopter editors and like controlling/hogging articles", but I'll humor whatever the response is. 4TheLuvOfFax (talk) 23:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

She left Australia at age of two and has done nothing notable in Australia in the two years she lived there. If she had had a notable career in Australia and continued in the US, Australian would be listed in the intro. She isn't an Australian actress - that is for Australians who live work and have or had a notable career in Australia. See MOS:CONTEXTBIO for more on this and for what goes in intro. Check the examples.

As for singer we are still looking for some indication that she is notable for being a singer to list it as a notable occupation, having something she did get listed on some national chart would help that, good sources that are independent and reliable covering her singing career and are not promotional would help show it was a notable occupation. Her singing career is covered in the article. See MOS:ROLEBIO. Most of this is discussed above in this talk page. Little has changed. Geraldo Perez (talk) 23:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeeeeeeeeeeup, helicopter editors controlling and hogging articles.

This platform will literally never cease to be a cesspool of a word that'll probably get me blocked on here soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... 4TheLuvOfFax (talk) 00:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)