Talk:Bisan Owda

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 January 2024

Filmmaker should be changed to Journalist 2600:1700:B522:36C0:2885:14CE:377B:B06A (talk) 08:11, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 02:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Content creator and activist [1], Activist and journalist [2] [3][4][5][6][7] IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Done ✅ IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 20:15, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 January 2024

There is some misinformation under the section 'Online Presence.' The sentence reads, "she alleged that 800 people were killed by an Israeli airstrike on the hospital, when the emerging consensus is that between two and three hundred people died when an Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket fell short."

It has not been confirmed who bombed the hospital. Stating that it was the Palestinian Jihad who bombed the hospital, when it hasn't even been confirmed, is biased and unproper reporting. There are many "claims" supporting both sides. It is very likely that Israel was behind the bombing given that they bombed many other hospitals afterwards. Please remove this detail as it is misleading and insignificant. Dede183 (talk) 06:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — FenrisAureus ▲ (she/they) (talk) 12:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2024

The entire second paragraph under Online presence that starts “On November 2” should be stricken. It is propaganda and besmirches Bisan’s reputation. Just because a biased newspaper alleges something and declares something to be “emerging consensus” does not make it factual. Eggkeeper (talk) 02:15, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: we inline attribute the accusations to the Jerusalem Post, which is generally considered to be a RS as far as I can tell. As for the rest of that paragraph, it mirrors what we have going on at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion Cannolis (talk) 02:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I disagree and removed it on BLP grounds. Allegations of that seriousness need more than a single source. Innisfree987 (talk) 02:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Writer?

This edit added Bisan to Category:Palestinian writers. As far as I'm aware she is not a writer but a video journalist. @IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 04:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Smasongarrison IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 04:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

That's a good point. It looks like there's enough people in Category:Palestinian journalists to make an entire category for 21st-century Palestinian journalists, so I could make the category and update it accordingly. Thoughts? Mason (talk) 04:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Anyway, I made the change, https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Bisan_Owda&oldid=1218842056, adding them to the journal category, and removing from the women writers category. Feel free to revert if that's not what you had in mind. Mason (talk) 04:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Brilliant 👍 IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 May 2024

Bisan Owda is a Palestinian journalist, film maker, and story teller. As a kid, Bisan dreamed of becoming an astronaut. In an instagram post, she recalls that at the age of 7, she knew she wanted to make change happen and make the world a better place.

Before October 7th, she dedicated her time to speak up for Palestine, using storytelling as a tool to bridge the gap across generations and share Palestinian culture, History, and struggles. She went viral with her signature sentence "Hi, it's Bisan and I am still alive", and many social media users have mentioned under her posts that they would log in every day and feel relieved after hearing these words. Createthehope (talk) 22:54, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 00:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 August 2024

From the following article we see that Bisan Osda was a member of the Palestinian Progressive Youth Union movement https://web.archive.org/web/20240727002518/https://pflp.ps/post/16667/%D8%A7%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%82%D8%AF%D9%85%D9%8A-%D9%8A%D9%81%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%AD-%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D9%86-%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%B8%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AB%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%A1-%D8%A8%D8%B9%D9%86%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%87

and is part of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, as per the listing on this page: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/World_Federation_of_Democratic_Youth

Since it was only 5 years ago, I believe it is relevant as part of Bisan Owda's background. Thank you. Steal the Kosher Bacon (talk) 12:48, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Any English language sources to support this? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, just saw this:

https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/08/08/gaza-journalist-with-suspected-terror-ties-reportedly-nominated-for-emmy/ Steal the Kosher Bacon (talk) 05:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Bunnypranav (talk) 14:47, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2024

Bisan Owda

OnyekeEjike (talk) 23:19, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Bunnypranav (talk) 05:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

TheWrap

Hey @Rainsage, could you elaborate on this edit? FortunateSons (talk) 19:49, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

The Reliable Sources page says: "As an industry trade publication, there is consensus that TheWrap is a good source for entertainment news and media analysis. There is no consensus regarding the reliability of TheWrap's articles on other topics." The BLP page says: "the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment."

I don't think we should use TheWrap as a source on this contentious topic on a BLP, when there are better sources. Rainsage (talk) 17:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It’s a generally reliable source for entertainment news, being used for entertainment use. In what way do you think it can cause harm, beyond was is already covered in the article? FortunateSons (talk) 17:47, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think a journalist being accused of PLFP ties while reporting during an alleged genocide during which journalists are allegedly being targeted by the alleged genocider is entertainment Rainsage (talk) 18:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

The alleged ties of a journalist and influencer being reported in the context of her Emmy nomination is, just as any other accusation of misconduct/a crime against a celebrity would be. For example, MeToo coverage would be entertainment too, IMO FortunateSons (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

And “this is important context to include” is not really a good due argument that gets close to a WP:coatrack (harm to journalists). And what is the issue with the lower reverted edit? It does not alter the meaning for the sentence. FortunateSons (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It’s not a coatrack because the source is specifically about Owda and connecting the topics. That Al Jazeera's journalists have been killed by Israel with claims of their involvement with "terrorist organizations" is obviously relevant to this claim that this Al Jazeera journalist has such ties. But it is relevant because the statement connects the two. SBS Australia also connects the topic of the killed journalists to this campaign. nableezy - 18:02, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

So it’s just undue then. The response is longer than the main point, that’s never a good sign. FortunateSons (talk) 18:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you that the paragraph should be shorter, but if it mentions danger to her safety we should mention why. I also don't think this "controversy" warrants its own subsection. Rainsage (talk) 18:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

We could link to any of the subsections on killed journalists in the conflict? Would that work? FortunateSons (talk) 19:03, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I don’t think it undue in the slightest. And coverage from SBS relating the two demonstrates that it is due. Same for CBC And when the main point is an unsubstantiated allegation against a living person the response should be as long as the sources support. Which is this much. nableezy - 19:17, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It’s undue relative to the coverage of the allegations, which is of course solvable by extending the allegations. But I would say that it would be better to instead shorten the response, particularly as it’s not her response. Maybe just keeping AJ and removing CAIR is an option? FortunateSons (talk) 19:33, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I don’t think that’s true at all, and no I don’t think either should be removed. We cover the allegation in full, and we cover the response in full. nableezy - 19:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

For example, the we neither mention the picture nor the speech at the anniversary. Both are highly significant IMO, and the CAIR statement matters less than the photos do. FortunateSons (talk) 20:11, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

What the CBC says is The industry group's main complaint is an unproven allegation that Owda has ties to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine … The PFLP allegations stem from posts on X (formerly Twitter) made by a communications analyst that purport to show Owda, 25, speaking at PFLP-related events as a teenager between 2014 and 2018. Purport to show, unproven allegation is the type of phrasing that would be appropriate here for a BLP. nableezy - 20:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I prefer the NYT phrasing, which says “There are reports and photographs indicating that Owda spoke at group events between 2014 and 2018.”, and linking to TheWrap, which uses “CCFP, a pro-Israel nonprofit organization, discovered Owda’s long-standing ties to PFLP, which has been a designated terrorist organization in the U.S. since 1997. The journalist regularly spoke at PFLP rallies and hosted events to honor Palestinians injured or killed in violent confrontations with Israeli soldiers. In 2018, the PFLP explicitly referred to Owda as a member of the Progressive Youth Union of the organization.” Let’s look for a reasonable compromise between those. FortunateSons (talk) 20:46, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

The Wrap is a non starter here, it makes claims of fact that the real sources say are unproven allegations. nableezy - 20:50, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Which? FortunateSons (talk) 20:54, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Owda's supposed "long-standing ties to PFLP", which the actually reliable sources call unproven accusations or that reports suggest. nableezy - 22:46, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

That’s circular reasoning if that’s the claim I want to source. TheWrap is green on RSN for entertainment news (which it is), her picture are on the PFLP site, it’s a respected (enough) publication, and the NYT is citing it as attribution for the claims, which are not disputed as fraudulent. We should clarify that the extent and nature of the connections are unproven, but there is no serious dispute about what those pictures show, and so we should be clear about that part too FortunateSons (talk) 23:12, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

No, Owdas supposed participation in in the PFLP is not entertainment news. Much stronger sources are not making the claim the wrap is making, they are saying this is an unverified allegation, and that there is this petition. Using such a source in a blp is a straightforward BLP violation when stronger sources say it is not proven and the pictures only purportedly show such a thing, or that the pictures also wouldn’t prove any affiliation. nableezy - 01:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I disagree on all counts, but in the spirit of compromise: “The group cited pictures and reports which purport to show Owda speaking at PFLP events as late as 2018.” or any other summary of the NYT + Deadline + other coverage is fine IMO, but the images are a core part of the story and should be included, but I’m not attached to the particular phrasing. FortunateSons (talk) 10:04, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

What can you infer about Obama from this photo of his dining with Ali Abunimah, Rashid Khalidi and Edward Said? If it were to circulate the effect would either be (a)see. I told you: Obama is an anti-Israel Muslim (b)See. I told you. Obama really is sympathetic to the Palestinian cause (c) Obama is a two-timing hypocritical brownnoser. He hangs out with Arabs and then stabs them in the back when he gets into power, etc. Photos, unless we have precise information on who said what to whom, where etc., have zero meaning and, in such cases, the use of such images only serves to suggest an implication you cannot objectively draw from them without such background. This is particularly true of photos of a teenager in a very small world where opportunities to engage in above-subsistance conversation are minimal. Here the promotors of their circulation clearly are intent on character assassination by innuendo.Nishidani (talk) 12:33, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

The Wrap got this from Creative Community for Peace which drew on a report by the self-employed Eitan Fischberger, who worked as an Iron Dome technician in the 2014 Gaza War, and was impressed by the great lengths he and his fellow technicans went to avoid civilian casualties, and disturbed by media distortions of this 'fact'. The facts there are that of the 2,310 killed in that war the United Nations Human Rights Committee stated 65% were civilians (1,500). The IDF says only 35% were civilians (808) - so yeah, either way Israel took extraordinary steps to avoid civilian casualties. Then Fischberger got his formative training, successively, working for CAMERA and NGO Monitor, both notorious for surreptitiously infiltrating wikipedia to influence its articles, aside from their status as unusable sources. Since then he's a freelance, and has suddenly developed, all on his own, a deep familiarity with Arabic-language websites. He has his name up there in lights for blowing Bisan Owda's cover as a teenage terrorist (after all he has stated he has dedicated himself to the defense of 'Western Civilization').

The IDF is on record as saying that anyone in Gaza who has had any link with Hamas, even though only as a journalist working for local Gaza media, is to be viewed as no different from a fighter in the Al-Qassam Brigades, any member of whom is killed when detected. 86% of over 200 journalists in Gaza stated their homes had been directly bombed. Of the 110+ Gaza journalists killed by Israel,30% worked for media outlets affiliated with or closely tied to Hamas (of which PFLP is one). Therefore, technically this narrative places her in a position of danger. Since Eitanberger is the core font for these allegations, I would suggest the place to discuss this is the BLP/Noticeboard for neutral input. Good luck with that one. I'd be happy to lay bets on the outcome. Nishidani (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

2024 Nobel Peace Prize nomination

Is this due for inclusion? Bisan's nomination is included on the page 2024 Nobel Peace Prize, cited to https://www.altinget.no/artikkel/dette-er-stortingspolitikernes-nominasjoner-til-nobels-fredspris-2024.

There isn't much coverage of this however and I'm not familiar with how significant being nominated for a Nobel Prize is. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:32, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

No. A large number of 'non-starters' are referred to the Nobel Peace Prize Committee. Being nominated is not significant. I say that with no prejudice to her person or work. Nishidani (talk) 00:59, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Actually, yes. But we will have to wait another 50 years for the nominees list to be officially revealed (https://www.nobelprize.org/nomination). Then we will be able to add her on the appropriate page (List of individuals nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize) GastelEtzwane (talk) 12:51, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 September 2024

Writing "Israel-Hamas war" is incorrect and highly offensive when all we see are civilian casualties, many of whom children. This is titled a GENOCIDE by the International Court of Justice. Not calling this a genocide shows that Wikipedia is dismissing these facts. It is not a war! Hohoho56 (talk) 18:06, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Not relevant to this talk page Rainsage (talk) 19:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)