Talk:Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1908)

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On 19 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Ben Dunne Sr.. The result of the discussion was Moved to Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1908).

Northern Ireland

Northern Ireland was removed as this state did not exist in 1908. Please see C S Lewis for status quoi --NorthernCounties (talk) 16:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Ben Dunne

Ben Dunne (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Semi-protection: High level of IP vandalism. 31.187.7.220 (talk) 22:08, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1908). Per consensus, move to alternate proposed title. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 13:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ben Dunne → Ben Dunne Sr. – There are two Irish businessmen named Ben Dunne with Wikipedia articles, and they are father and son. The father founded Dunnes Stores, and the son later took over running the business from his father.

The father's article is currently named "Ben Dunne", and the son's article is currently named "Ben Dunne (born 1949)". The son is arguably the more well-known now, some 40 years after his father's death, and having remained in the public eye since then. As a result, it is possible that people looking for the son would inadvertently end up on the father's article, given it is just called "Ben Dunne".

I propose that the father's article be renamed to "Ben Dunne Sr." and the son's name be renamed to "Ben Dunne Jr.", for consistency and clarity. I'm open to other approaches too, but I don't think the current approach is ideal. Gatepainter (talk) 11:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Father and son did not use the generational suffixes "Sr." and "Jr." and such suffixes were nor part of their WP:COMMONNAMES. However, would support Ben Dunne → Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1908). If preferred by consensus, would also support other alternative forms, such as Ben Dunne → Ben Dunne (entrepreneur, born 1908) or even Ben Dunne → Ben Dunne (Dunnes Stores founder). Would further support creation of a Ben Dunne disambiguation page listing the father as well as the son. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:11, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the suggested approaches, provided there is consistency between the father and son's articles, i.e. both should either use "businessman" "entrepreneur" or an appropriate reference to Dunnes Stores (e.g. founder/director).

I also agree that a Ben Dunne disambiguation page is appropriate. Gatepainter (talk) 21:21, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The 'Sr.' and 'Jr.' were never used by them and aren't part of their names. It's usual practice to minimise disambiguation, so adding "entrepreneur" or "businessman" is unnecessary and redundant. Neither could really be described as entrepreneurs - they founded one business, each. I would agree with a dismbiguation page, as Ben Dunne (born 1949) is almost certainly the current primary topic, but otherwise, moving this one to Ben Dunne (born 1908) would seem the most logical and consistent. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 00:04, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1908), our standard way of disambiguating. We generally try to avoid "entrepreneur". It's a bit of a peacock term. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:52, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like there is unanimity that the current names need to change, and a rough consensus so far for a Ben Dunne disambiguation page with links to the following renamed articles:

Ben Dunne→Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1908)

Ben Dunne (born 1949)→Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1949) Gatepainter (talk) 12:58, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.