Talk:Battle of Hefei (208)

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Before Red Cliffs, or after?

The following description from Cao Cao's biography gives the impression that this battle took place before the actual engagement at Red Cliffs, instead of after.

In the 12th month, Sun Quan helped Liu Bei attack Hefei. Cao Cao personally led forces from Jiangling to attack Liu Bei and they reached Baqiu, where Cao sent Zhang Xi to lead reinforcements to Hefei. When Sun Quan heard that Zhang Xi's reinforcements had arrived, he retreated. Cao Cao headed towards Red Cliffs and engaged Liu Bei but lost the battle.
[十二月，孫權為備攻合肥。公自江陵征備，至巴丘，遣張憙救合肥。權聞憙至，乃走。公至赤壁，與備戰，不利。]

Any comments? LDS _{contact me} 08:16, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sun Sheng commented in his Yitong Ping (異同評) that the Wu Zhi (吳志) claimed that this battle took place after Red Cliffs. [孫盛異同評曰：案吳志，劉備先破公軍，然後權攻合肥，而此記云權先攻合肥，後有赤壁之事。二者不同，吳志為是。] LDS _{contact me} 15:17, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

de Crespigny, following the Zizhi Tongjian, explains why it should be after Red Cliffs (and in 209, no less), in his translation of the Zizhi Tongjian, To Establish Peace: (note 96 to Jian'an 13)

The account of the attack on Hefei is confused by SGZ 1, 30, which says that Sun Quan attacked the place "on behalf of (wei) Liu Bei" but was driven away by the arrival of a relief force under Zhang Xi: see passages B and C of the following year, Jian'an 14. SGZ 1 then goes on to tell of the defeat of Cao Cao at the Red Cliffs at the hands of Liu Bei. It is inappropriate, however, to describe Sun Quan's operations as being in the interests of Liu Bei, who was a junior partner at this time.
It is highly unlikely, moreover, that Sun Quan would have distracted himself and diminished his defences against Cao Cao's advance from the west by any diversion to the north. One must assume that the chronicle of SGZ 1 has misinterpreted and misplaced the attack on Hefei, and the enterprise was begun, as the biography of Sun Quan describes it in SGZ 47, only after Cao Cao had been repelled at the Red Cliffs.

de Crespigny and Sima Guang seem to follow Sun Sheng's take in SGZ 47 (Wu 2, the Biography of Sun Quan) as the genuine account for this event. _dk (talk) 16:34, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification. LDS _{contact me} 16:54, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]