Talk:Basilica della Santa Casa

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Location, location, location

On Google Earth, this reference is showing up somewhere in North Yemen. I fear this is innaccurate. Does anyone know how to fix that?

Tell those Jinn who took the Holy House off to Yemen to put it right back, before we sic King Solomon on them (g) 69.181.249.69 (talk) 03:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I just have to say that this is my favorite talk page post ever. Well played! Johanna-Hypatia (talk) 05:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's a well-known fact that the house flew there by itself.

Transportation

Right. So, the house wasn't actually carried by angels. So how did it get to Loreto? Outside of the religious faithful, do scholars (e.g. art historians) generally consider this to be authentically that old, or authentically from the Holy Land, or authentically the house that Mary lived in (as if there were any way of knowing or proving that)? LordAmeth (talk) 04:34, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Without any claim to expertise on this topic, my understanding is that scientists have dated the fabric of the building to materials from Palestine from roughly two millenia ago. Daniel the Monk (talk) 15:46, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source? In ictu oculi (talk) 07:59, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Title

Why was the title of this entry changed to the Italian version of the name? Isn't that in violation of MOS not to have the English version in its commonly-used English name? Daniel the Monk (talk) 15:44, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv (talk) 06:52, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Basilica della Santa Casa → Basilica of the Holy House – See above ("Isn't that in violation of MOS not to have the English version in its commonly-used English name?"). Daniel the Monk (talk) 18:08, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Searching Google Books for "Santa Casa" + Loreto gives 149,000 hits, using instead "Holy House" + Loreto 22,500 hits. Favonian (talk) 18:45, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Question:Does that data look only at English-language works, presumably used primarily by English speakers? Or does it include non-English books on the topic? Daniel the Monk (talk) 16:16, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – bad rationale. We should name it for what it's most often called in English-language publications. No assertion has been made, nor evidence presented, that the English-language name is more common in English-language publications. Dicklyon (talk) 06:35, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - the lede is wrong, most sources use "basilica of the Santa Casa". In ictu oculi (talk) 07:58, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Santa Casa

The image of the Casa shows a giant white stone "box" covered in statues and other decoration. This is far from the "plain stone building" of the text. The caption of this image is, "The Holy House in the Basilica". The original Italian caption of the image is translated as, "Shrine of the Holy House in Loreto - Santa Casa" which implies something entirely different. I am guessing, but, to me, this looks like a purpose built room inside the Basilica, that houses inside it the actual Santa Casa. Can someone who knows clarify, please? Thanks Nick Beeson (talk) 11:42, 12 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There Are Other Sites for Proselytism...

My understanding is that stating the myths or traditional beliefs of a particular religious sect contradicts the purpose of Wikipedia. To make the obviously unprovable assertion that a certain shrine contains "the house where the Virgin Mary lived" as the opening paragraph of this page does is clearly out of bounds. I believe the Roman Catholic Church and various members thereof maintain quite a number of sites where the faithful may freely express their devotional and doctrinal interpretations of the Gothic architecture as well as the other artistic and natural tourist highlights of Italy.68.178.50.46 (talk) 03:58, 22 June 2015 (UTC) "Stating myths... as facts", should read.68.178.50.46 (talk) 04:20, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 19 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Calidum 19:52, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Basilica della Santa Casa → Basilica of the Holy House – Are we ready to evaluate this again? C.f. determining, official sources such as this, this, this, and this. PPEMES (talk) 15:53, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Italian churches are usually referred to using their original names, not some forced English translation. That's usually what you'll see in guidebooks. Webpages from the country of origin can't be trusted, as they often translate names because they think English speakers can't handle foreign terms. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:51, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Three of the four sources are official ones from the Vatican. Still invalid to take into account? PPEMES (talk) 13:55, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The primary language of which is Italian! -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:13, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Strictly speaking, isn't their primary language Latin, though, canonically? Excuse, but is there no reason to consider English names even when offered in multiple official as well third-party sources instead of categorically succumbing to what's WP:COMMONNAME to Italian Wikipedia? PPEMES (talk) 14:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The day-to-day language is Italian; it's certainly not English, which was my point. We should only use English translations if they are overwhelmingly used in proper English-language sources (i.e. those from English-speaking countries). Given I'm English and don't speak Italian, this has nothing to do with Italian Wikipedia. I am not a fan of translating everything into English no matter what, and this is not what WP:UE mandates. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:16, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but isn't WP:UE rather plastic from this viewpoint? Am I misjudging if I seek support for my interprtation in this paragraph: "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader"? PPEMES (talk) 15:20, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In this day and age, English-language usage for Italian churches tends to be the Italian name. WP:NCUE: "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language..." That doesn't necessarily mean the name should be translated into English. It means use the version most commonly used in reliable English-language sources, which may well be the original version. "Often this will be the local version..." as the guideline says. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:58, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

While WP:DIVIDEDUSE may well be in favour of your Italian-name preference conclusion in quite a few other cases of minor church buildings in Italy, I'm not on train with its application in this case, provided my sources exemplified. Please note that 15 out of 16 other interwiki-links - languages oftentimes smaller than English - give preference to their native language for a church building of this prominence, ultimately supposedly due to interpretation/application of WP:DIVIDEDUSE in their respective languages. Anyway, thanks for taking your time to answer my inquires. PPEMES (talk) 16:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Little house of loreto" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Little house of loreto. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 22:01, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lead is a shrine to Chaos

Check my "dubious" tags. What are the sources? What are they stating? What relates to the house, and what to the Black Madonna? Is the latter an icon, or a statue? Any info about provenance and years? Anything about the 1921 fire? ANYTHING USEFUL AR ALL for our purposes? Arminden (talk) 07:04, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reliability of https://italytravelideas.com/religion/loreto-can-only-be-a-miracle/ and Enza Ferreri

The pro-arguments are mostly sourced to this travel blog written by Enza Ferreri (he has also a personal blog at https://enzaferreri.blogspot.com/). It is clear that he isn't a reliable source. If the claims made can be verified by other sources, then please add those sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1810:BC04:4B00:E429:F8BF:2299:F6B7 (talk) 12:49, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed references to this blog and replaced them with citation needed.--2A02:1810:BC04:4B00:E429:F8BF:2299:F6B7 (talk) 13:12, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]