Talk:Barack Obama

Black, not African-American

Changed "African-American" to "Black" because not all African people are considered "Black". Is Brad Binder Black? Nope. White South Africans exist. I, myself, am an Afrikaner, and I sure as hell am not Black. Anonymous and proud (talk) 12:34, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

The category of African Americans is clear if we are not pretending it means something other than what it means. For its use in this article, we defer to the language used by our sources, and Obama is most frequently described as an African American man. Remsense ‥ 论 12:45, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Brad Binder isn't Black, and he isn't African American either. He's South African. In the USA, the terms Black and African American are both commonly used with a variety of meanings, ranging from people descended from victims of American chattel slavery, to members of a subculture defined by that legacy, to any American with dark skin, to Americans with ancestral or cultural ties to Africa. Most of those categories apply to Obama, and he is widely described as African American by published sources. White Americans of African descent are not normally called African Americans by themselves or others, but even if they were, that wouldn't mean the term doesn't apply to Obama. -- LWG ^talk 17:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Most Black Americans (not including immigrants or those descended from them) are more likely to genetic relations with White Americans than they are with someone from Africa. That continent for most of its history never had a singular identity. African-American is a ridiculous term. TheFloridaTyper (talk) 15:08, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

It doesn’t matter, the term is already well established. Remember, Wikipedia aims to describe, not to prescribe. 2607:FEA8:529E:C300:A5F9:49C9:82BF:7CC5 (talk) 08:02, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

I am not against adding the term Black to the article. However, considering Obama is Black, African-American, and multiracial (correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think that existing terms should be mass-removed wholesale. If there are sentences where the word Black is more appropriate, feel free to point them out so we can bring them into the discussion. However, I am going to try to be numerically objective regarding your request.

A point against your request: it would cause inconsistency with the categories, many of which use the term African-American (12 times), not Black (0 times).

A point for your request: it would create consistency with the sources, some of which refer to the former president as Black (Further Reading: McClelland) (418: Wallace-Wells, "The Great Black Hope", 223: Dyson, "The Black Presidency") but apparently not as African-American (0 times).

Both points being taken, I'd say the change would create more consistencies (12) than it alleviates (3) unless the names of the categories (12) are also changed. However, that could create numerous inconsistencies between categories unless all of their names are changed. Therefore, that change affecting many more articles than this and possibly many categories not used in this article, I believe would require a larger discussion about Wikipedia conventions involving category names to take place first. Correct me if I'm wrong. ~~~ 1101 (talk) 05:48, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

"Barack O" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Barack O has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 January 1 § FirstName LastInitial redirects for presidents until a consensus is reached. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 03:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Change "African-Amereican" to Multiracial

Most Black Americans don't have immediate ancestors from Africa like Obama does. Not to mention Obama has mixed raced ancestry through his father and mother TheFloridaTyper (talk) 15:10, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

See Q2 of the FAQ for this article (also found at the top of this page). Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:38, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Should we add a permanent-top-thread version of the faq, like at Talk:Muhammad#Frequently_asked_questions,_please_read_before_posting? It's more visible, especially for mobile-users [4] I think. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:31, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure anything could address the appalling logic of the OP here - that having an immediate African ancestor somehow prevents Obama being African-American. HiLo48 (talk) 09:44, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

There is this view around that people who weren't American slaves doesn't "count" when deciding who's African-American. Of course, on this website we go by "Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:04, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Debra Dickerson wrote at one time "President Barack Obama, who is the son of a Kenyan immigrant, although technically African-American, is not black." Another time she wrote "African-American, in our political and social vocabulary, means those descended from West African slaves, because Obama is not a descendant of West Africans brought involuntarily to the United States as slaves, he is not African-American." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:14, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

That's definitely a point of view that some people hold, and the wiki discusses that view at African_Americans#Terminology_dispute, but to justify changing what we say about Obama we would need to show that the consensus in the reliable sources is not to describe him as African American. In actual fact although a few sources take Debra Dickerson's point of view, most sources don't. If you think the article should follow Debra Dickerson's point of view, you need to show that her point of view is the consensus one among the reliable sources. -- LWG ^talk 16:23, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

I think the term multiracial is used once in the article. I also don't believe the terms are mutually exclusive. Using the word more times in the article isn't necessarily a bad idea. Simply removing all references to the term African-American probably would be a bad idea. Does that make sense? Feel free to correct me. 1101 (talk) 05:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)