Talk:Artaxias I

Untitled

He is the founder of the "Arsacid" dynasty of Armenia, still no mention of his relation to the larger Arsacid family, the Parthian Emperors, is to be found! Strange?--Khodadad 00:12, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Artaxias has nothing to do with Arsacids or Parthians. The founder of the Arshakuni Dynaty was Tiridates I of Armenia. --Eupator 01:33, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Artashes A.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Need for revision

Much of the information in this article is drawn directly from Movses Khorenatsi. As is well known, Khorenatsi's information about the early Armenian kings came largely from epic sources and contains the confusions and conflations that one would expect from a source separated by so many centuries from its subject and relying on oral sources. This information can go in a separate section like "Artashes in the Armenian epic tradition" but it can't be used uncritically for Artashes's actual reign. Revolution Saga (talk) 10:40, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@EpeBah, I wanted to involve you since you were the one who added most of this information. What do you think? Revolution Saga (talk) 02:44, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

I added most of this information after reading Khorenatsi's chapters regarding him, unaware of the massive confusion in sources and chronology. I was just surprised at how much information Khorenatsi wrote about him and the following kings and I couldn't find any of it anywhere on the internet. I've been meaning to reply to your message that you made on my talk page but got busy with homework and studies. I admit to coming to my own conclusions regarding to a couple of points as I was trying to link Khorenatsi's narrative to that of more reliable sources, as I did find a few similarities and explanations, such as Khoreantsi writing about a Roman invasion of Armenia which could fit the Seleucid invasion of Armenia, as well as Khorenatsi writing about Artashes' escape from Armenia providing a possible explanation to why Artashes became a Seleucid Strategios. I do believe there is some credibility in what Khorenatsi had written, as he correctly preserved the chronology (Yervand -> Artashes -> Artavazd ->Tigran -> Tigran) and had been correct on the land reforms occurring during his reign as evidenced by the borderstones.

I also used the Georgian Chronicles as a source, as it provided more insight and, interestingly, a Georgian perspective, as they wrote about how Yervand was overthrown by Artashes with the aid of his tutor, Smbat Bagratuni, as well as writing about an Armenian-Iberian war occurring during the reigns of Yervand IV and Artashes I that Khorenatsi only mentioned in a sentence. I also used the Georgian Chronicles for original research as well, as I came to the conclusion that Armenia broke free of Parthian suzerainty during the reigns of Artavazd I after aiding the Iberian nobles in overthrowing Parnajom, which provided an explanation to why the Parthians tried to invade Armenia during Tigran I's reign.

However I came to realize how utterly tangled and messed up Khorenatsi and the Georgian Chronicles' chronologies were when I tried to look into the aforementioned Smbat Bagratuni. Who was, according to Khorenatsi, Artashes' tutor and general. As I looked further into who this person was, I only got more confused and frustrated. He was the son of Biurat Bagratuni, who's sister, Sanota, aided Avde, Abgar V sister, in bringing Sanatruk through a snowstorm, this only caused more confusion Khorenatsi writes that he served under Artashes I. The Georgian Chronicles had its own memory of Smbat Bagratuni (Mentioned in the Georgian translation as Sumbat Bivritiani and Smbat Biurat in the Armenian translation), who after helping Artashes gain the Armenian throne, helped him defend the borders from the invading Iberian and North Caucasian armies and sieged Mtskheta. The only possible evidence that exists of this Smbat Bagratuni figure and the whole war mentioned above is the Demoti fortress near the village of Kvabiskhevi, as the Georgian Chronicles writes that it was Smbat who founded the fortress. I have yet to find any answers regarding this figure, and I've distanced myself from editing historical pages for Wikipedia as I notice more problems arise.

I feel as if much of this information should be mentioned somewhere, but I frankly am not sure what to do anymore.

EpeBah (talk) 09:11, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

I think the solution is to greatly condense it into a single section titled "Artaxias in the Armenian epic tradition", outlining some of the events described by Khorenatsi, how Artaxias is remembered as "barepasht", the story of Satenik etc. I don't know if you read Armenian, but Manuk Abeghian talks about this in his work Հայ ժողովրդական առասպելները Մ. Խորենացու Հայոց պատմության մեջ. I haven't read it thoroughly, but I think Albert Stepanyan's Khorenica might also have information on this. In any case, we can start with deleting the info that is only from Khorenatsi and Georgian Chronicles; we can always draw on them later from the page history. Revolution Saga (talk) 02:25, 7 March 2024 (UTC)