User talk:EpeBah

Your draft article, Draft:Zirikhgeran

Hello, EpeBah. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Zirikhgeran".

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! JMHamo (talk) 08:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I don’t mind the deletion of the page. I’ll save the source code of the article and work on it on a google doc or word document. Thank you for letting me know EpeBah (talk) 08:50, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Akhty Federation

Hello, EpeBah. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Akhty Federation".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! —Nnadigoodluck🇳🇬 08:26, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I have saved the source code of the draft to a google doc, feel free to delete the page. Thank you. EpeBah (talk) 08:33, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Aghul Union

Hello, EpeBah. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Aghul Union".

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Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 15:06, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Maskut has been accepted

Maskut, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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Zoozaz1 talk 00:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

List of Wars involving Armenia

Hello, the 190-180 BCE Armenian-Georgian war is well known in history of Artaxias'es campaign, not invasion of Armenia, (4 side campaigns of Artashes A), also after that Iberia becomes vassal state and the head of country becomes Armenian prince, in late 160's Iberian REVOLT against Armenian vassal prince, not invading of Armenia (according to Armenian sources) LexaneAlex (talk) 09:32, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello LexaneAlex, after reviewing Khorenatsi and the Georgian Chronicles, it was actually Orontes IV who expanded into Iberia, not Artaxias. Artaxias kept Gugark and The Iberians, seeking revenge, invaded Armenia, along with the Alans and Leks. The Georgian Chronicles actually give a really detailed description of this account, more detailed than Khorenatsi or any other source I can find. After Artaxias defended Armenia from the Iberians, he vassalized Iberia. A few years later, another war would break out between Armenia and Iberia, which led to a compromise. EpeBah (talk) 10:04, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Undefined sfn reference

Hi, in this edit to Tigranes I you introduced an sfn reference to "Garsoian 2005", but did not define it. This means that nobody can look the reference up, and also adds the article to Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors. If you could fix it by defining the reference that would be great. DuncanHill (talk) 13:32, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Done, hopefully it's fixed now. EpeBah (talk) 18:07, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 18:57, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

April 2023

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you recently removed maintenance templates from List of wars involving Armenia. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Please see Help:Maintenance template removal for further information on when maintenance templates should or should not be removed. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Remove tags from articles only if you have provided a source showing this was a war and the war involved the state of Armenia (or a sovereign entity preceding it), per list criteria and Wikipedia guidelines. This article is not a list of all military engagements involving Armenians, it s a list about wars involving the state of Armenia (or a sovereign entity preceding it). This tag should only be removed when a source is provided per WP:NEEDCITEREMOVE; removing without a clear change in consensus and a source is against WP:V, WP:BURDEN, and WP:ONUS.  // Timothy :: talk  02:58, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Why was my edit reverted? I added the proper sources that stated there was a war in the boxes that I have edited, and made sure that any battle mentioned would be listed in the same box as the war. You also added CNs in boxes that already have a source.

EpeBah (talk) 03:31, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Please do not remove maintenance templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to List of wars involving Armenia, without resolving the problem that the template refers to, or giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your removal of this template does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. You have added citations, but these references all failed V. None of the references you provided state these are wars involving the state of Armenia.  // Timothy :: talk  05:33, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Except the sources DO state that these wars involved Armenia. These sources are even used on their own pages such as Xerxes of Sophene, Mithrobouzanes of Sophene, Artaxias I, Artavasdes I of Armenia, and Tigranes I.

• Xerxes's Rebellion

Sophene, Gordyene, and Adiabene: Three Regna Minora of Northern Mesopotamia Between East and West by Michał Marciak, 2017, page 117

"What is more, Polybios’ text explains that Antiochos attacked Xerxes on the account

of the latter’s lack of loyalty and due to unpaid tribute of Xerxes’ father.

The lacunas narrative of Polybios leaves some room for the identification of

the Seleucid monarch: some scholars see him as Antiochos IV, while others

see him as Antiochos III (the Great). If Antiochos III is to be preferred, which

is more likely, then the episode can be approximately dated to the beginning of

his Eastern campaigns, i.e., to around 212 BCE. As for Xerxes, he surrendered

and was forgiven by Antiochos III who gave him his sister Antiochis as a wife.

However, according to John of Antioch (no. 122), Xerxes was later poisoned

by his wife on the orders of Antiochos III."

• Orontes IV's campaign against Iberia

The Georgian chronicles of Kʻartʻlis Cʻxovreba (A History of Georgia): translated and with commentary by Stephen Jones and Roin Metreveli, 2014, page 31-32

"Beginning with Aderk’i the Georgian kings were subjects of the Armenian King, and particularly the kings of Armazi, who supported the Armenians in their fight with all their enemies. When the

King of Armenia became the great King Ervand (Orontes IV), he cancelled all the good that the Georgians had rendered. He committed violence against Parsman of Armazi, taking away from him Ts’unda, which was situated at the borders of Kartli and Art’aani down to the Mt’k’vari. He settled in Ts’unda where lived a beast-like people of the tribe of devis, and called it Ts’unda Kajat’uni, which is translated as “house of the devis.” The kings of Kartli could not restore their borders, and Parsman and K’aos died."

• Iberian Incursion into Armenia

The Georgian chronicles of Kʻartʻlis Cʻxovreba (A History of Georgia): translated and with commentary by Stephen Jones and Roin Metreveli, 2014, page 32-33

"These kings, Armazel and Azork’, were brave and enterprising. They cooperated and decided to

restore the borders of Kartli. At that time Sumbat’ Bivrit’ian killed Ervand, the King of the Armenians,

and enthroned Ervand’s brother by the name of Art’ashan. Then the kings of Kartli, Azork’ and

Armazel, called on the Ovses and Lek’is and brought over the kings of the Ovses, two brother-giants

by name of Bazuk’ and Anbazuk’, with the Ossetian army. They brought with them the Pechenegs

and Jiks, and the King of the Lek’is brought with him the Durdzuk’s and Didoians. And the kings of

Kartli gathered their troops. They gathered together in countless numbers. They collected artfully,

secretly, before the Armenian army could gather. All of a sudden they invaded Armenia and ravaged

Shirak’un and Vanand down to Bagrevand and Basiani. Turning back they devastated Dasht’ down

to Nakhch’evan, taking countless prisoners and spoils, and all kinds of goods; and they passed on

to the road of Parisos.

Then Sumbat’ Bivrit’ian summoned the Armenian troops and they came without delay. He

began to cajole them as the northern tribes had already crossed the Mt’k’vari, and had come to

Kambechovani and were camped on the banks of the Iori, occupying themselves with the division of

their captives and their spoils. Sumbat’ sent an envoy to them saying: “I leave to you all the spoils

you have taken from Armenia: the cattle, gold, silver and cloth; I also do not look for compensation

for the Armenian blood you have shed, but let the prisoners go and leave in peace, enriched and

filled with everything.” They answered: “We came to Armenia for no other thing, but you, though we

could not find you. Now come. Do not refuse, for, wherever you go we will come for you, and you

will not escape us alive.”

Sumbat’ Bivrit’ian crossed the Mt’k’vari, and Bazuk’, the king of the Ovses challenged him to a

duel; he sent him an envoy and proposed single combat. Sumbat’ armed himself, mounted his longmaned

horse and came forward before the ranks of troops, from which Bazuk’ suddenly darted out.

They uttered battle cries and rushed toward each other. Sumbat’ with his spear struck Bazuk’ in his

waist and the spear came out from his back a whole cubit; he lifted Bazuk’ from his horse and threw

him on the ground. Then Anbazuk’ rushed forward to help his brother, but Sumbat’ took his spear,

moved forward to meet him, and speared him too. He lifted him (Anbazuk’), threw him on the ground

and said: “This is for the Armenian women, men and babies you have killed.” Then all the troops of

the Ovses, Lek’is, Georgians and all the northern tribes uttered a united cry and said: “Since these two brothers, the embodiment of every manly valor have been killed, what is the value of our lives?”

So embittered were they that they rallied to the side of the Georgian kings Azork’ and Armazel and

attacked Sumbat’ and the Armenian army. A great battle occurred between them, which continued

from three to nine o’clock; countless people died on both sides, and from the dust raised the day

grew dark and turned into night. The fighters mingled with each other and those assembled could

not distinguish their enemies because of the dust.

The camp of the northerners was defeated by the Armenians, they were scattered and fled.

Sumbat’, who received many wounds began to pursue them, and he chased them until nightfall.

He destroyed almost all the Ovses and Lek’is, only a few of them survived. Many more Georgians

escaped, due to their knowledge of the roads. And both kings of Kartli were wounded and found

shelter in Mtskheta.

Sumbat’ triumphantly entered Kartli and devastated it, as well as everything he found outside

the fortresses and towns. He did not assail the fortresses and reinforced towns, because he was

not prepared, due to the haste with which he organized his campaign. He built a fortress on Mount

Ghado in the Ordzkhevi area, which is called Samtskhe, in the place called Demoti. He left a garrison

in the fortress to render aid to the inhabitants of Ts’unda in their struggle with the Ordzokhevians,

and then he left. But the kings of Kartli, thanks to their steadfastness did not give in to their fear, but

reinforced their fortresses and towns. Sacrificing the plain of Kartli, they did not stop fighting with

the Armenians. And the Ovses (too) began to avenge the Armenians for their spilled blood. They

came from the mountains down to Kartli and allied themselves with the Georgians. The Ovses and

Georgians joined each other, and continued without pause their fight with the Armenians.

There lived in the town of Ordzokha one eristavi of King Armazel, an aznauri, who was truly

devoted to Armazel. He was aided by the Megrels. The Ts’undians and Demotians too, helped each

other. So the war continued ceaselessly. The main battle took place at the river, which was called

Nost’e.

There lived in K’larjeti another eristavi of King Azork’, an aznauri, who was inflicting harm

upon Armenians at the border, the Parkhali area that is called T’ao. No enemy could enter K’larjeti,

because it was strong and inaccessible, due to its forests and its rocky landscape; and its residents

were foot soldiers as well as horsemen.

And the kings of Kartli themselves more than once went to Armenia from Mtskheta on the road

to Abotsi. The Georgians were fighting constantly. Then Art’ashan, the King of the Armenians set out

with all his forces and his sp’asp’et’ Sumbat’ Bivrit’ian. The Georgians reinforced their fortresses and

towns and brought in the forces from Ossetia, which filled their towns and fortresses. The Armenians

came and faced Mtskheta. They fought for five months and every day there was combat between

heroes.

Then the Georgians and Ovses began to experience difficulties. They appealed for peace and

promised to obey the Armenians and not to look for revenge and restoration of their borders. The

King of the Armenians heeded their request. They gave a solemn promise. The King of the Armenians

enslaved the Georgians and Ovses and left."

• 1st Unification Wars of Sophene

Sophene, Gordyene, and Adiabene: Three Regna Minora of Northern Mesopotamia Between East and West by Michał Marciak, 2017, page 155

"It also seems likely that Mithrobouzanes followed Zariadres directly on the throne of Sophene due to the chronological connection of the two rulers with Artaxias from Greater Armenia. Zariadres began his rule in agreement with Artaxias, and Mithrobouzanes’ rule was challenged by Artaxias, who was still alive at the time."

• Rebellion in Caspiana

History of the Armenians by Movses Khorenatsi, translated by Robert W. Thomson, 1978, page 195

"After the death of the last Arshak, king of Persia, our Artashes

made his homonym, Arshak's son Artashes, king over the

land of Persia. The inhabitants of the mountain, which is called

in their own tongue the province of Patizhahar, that is, the

mountain of Gelmants', did not wish to obey him, nor did those

who dwelt by the sea and those beyond them. Similarly the land

of the Caspians3 for that reason rebelled against our king. Therefore Artashes sent Smbat against them with the entire Armenian

army, and the king himself accompanied them for seven days. So

Smbat went and subdued them all; he ravaged the land of the

Caspians and brought to Armenia more captives than those from

Artaz, including their king, Zardmanos."

• Trdat Bagratuni's rebellion

History of the Armenians by Movses Khorenatsi, translated by Robert W. Thomson, 1978, page 206

"King Tiran (Tigranes I) married his daughter Eraneak to a certain

Trdat of the Bagratuni family, the son of Smbatuhi, daughter

of the valiant Smbat, a spirited and powerful man, short in

stature and ugly in appearance. She hated her husband Trdat

and was continuously grumbling and complaining, lamenting

that she, a beautiful woman, lived with an ugly man, and that

being of noble family she lived with a man of ignoble origin.3 At

this Trdat was angry, and one day he beat her severely. He

clipped her blond hair, pulled off her thick locks, and ordered

her to be dragged outside and thrown from the room. He himself

went in rebellion to the secure regions of Media. After he had

arrived in the land of Siunik', the news of Tiran's death reached

him; on hearing it he stopped there."

• Intervention in Iberia

The Georgian chronicles of Kʻartʻlis Cʻxovreba (A History of Georgia): translated and with commentary by Stephen Jones and Roin Metreveli, 2014, page 27

"King Parnajom intensified the construction works in all the city-fortresses. He built the fortress

Zadeni, and created an idol by name of Zaden, erecting him in Zadeni. He also began to build in

K’akheti the town of Nelkari, which is Nek’resi.

He came to love the Persian faith, and fire worshipping; he brought from Persia fire priests

and magicians and settled them in Mtskheta at the place, which is now called Mogvta, and began

to openly abuse the idols.20 The inhabitants of Kartli hated him, because they were worshipping the

idols. Most of the eristavis conspired against him and sent an envoy to the King of Armenia with

this message: “Our King has abandoned the faith of our fathers and does not serve the gods, the

masters of Kartli, any more. He introduced his father’s faith in Kartli and refused the faith of his

mother. He does not deserve to be our King. Give us your son Arshak’, whose wife is from the family

of the Parnavazids, our kings. Give us your army’s help and we will make Parnajom flee, he who

has brought a new faith to Kartli. Let our King be your son Arshak’, and our Queen – his wife, the

daughter of our kings.”

That proposal appealed to the King of Armenia. He sent back the envoy with a positive answer,

in which he said: “If you truly and honestly want to have my son as your king, give me your hostages

and I will give him to you and shower you with all kinds of presents.”

Most of the eristavis of Kartli sent him hostages, declaring their renunciation of Parnajom, and

the Armenian King advanced to Kartli with his entire army. King Parnajom for his part called the

Persians to his aid, and brought to Kartli a powerful Persian army. He also gathered at his side

the Georgians who remained faithful to him. The Georgian eristavis who broke with him met the

Armenian King in T’ashir. Many Armenians and Georgians gathered there. And Parnajom, too, joined

battle in T’ashir.

A fierce battle took place between them and many people fell on both sides. Paranjom was

defeated by the Armenians and Georgians. Paranjom was killed and his army destroyed. Paranjom’s

son Mirvan, a one-year-old boy, was taken by his tutor to Persia. The Armenian King gave to the

Georgians his son as king."

EpeBah (talk) 08:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Edits on Artaxias I and Artavasdes I

Dear EpeBah, thank you for your contributions to pages on Armenian history. I wanted to give you some tips about editing so we can cooperate on improving these articles. In general, it's better to rely on published secondary sources rather than primary sources (as per WP:PRIMARY), especially when using ones written many centuries after the fact and containing confused chronologies, like Khorenatsi's history. I also noticed that in some cases you appear to make your own assumptions about what the primary sources actually meant (for example, in this section you appear to make a different claim from Khorenatsi without referring to a second source that makes this conclusion), which would qualify as original research. Finally, when writing about events that happen in the past, we usually use the past tense ("went, fought, captured," not "would go, would fight, would capture"). Best regards, Revolution Saga (talk) 23:43, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

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