Talk:West Nickel Mines School shooting

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This article was nominated for deletion on December 3, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on October 2, 2016.

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On 22 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2006 West Nickel Mines School shooting to West Nickel Mines School shooting. The result of the discussion was moved.

Archives

Archive 1

Barbie Fisher's Age

The first time Barbie Fisher is mentioned in the article, it states that she is 11 years old. Under the list of Wounded, she is listed as 10 years old. Below that, when talking about the survivors, her age is different yet again - "Barbie Fisher, now 9.." What is her actual age, both now and at the time of the shooting? She can't possibly be 9 now if she was 11 at the time of the incident.. Sparkstarthunderhawk (talk) 19:10, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why He Let The Boys Go

There are motives as to why the gunman let all the males leave the schoolhouse during his rampage. He talked to his wife in the schoolhouse and told her that he had molested two relatives twenty years ago and he was having dreams about doing it again. Also, Police commissioner Miller said that he thinks he could be taking the anger out on his daughter who was born 9 years earlier but died 20 seconds into her life. There is also some speculation that Roberts could have let the boys go to lessen the struggle of the hostages says Commissioner Jeffery Miller. By letting the boys go, he could control the hostages better because there were less people to keep track of. Also, when Roberts made the call to his wife he said that he molested two female relatives twenty years ago and that he had been dreaming about it before the time of the shooting. There was KY jelly (lubricant) that could suggest Roberts wanted to make sexual advances towards the schoolgirls. However, both of the relatives had denied being molested 20 years earlier in a statement after the shooting.

--- I removed the above section because it is unreferenced, speculative and a mess. There is important information in it that may not be in the article as it stands however. Rich Farmbrough, 08:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC).[reply]

The incident

The gunman came into the school with three firearms: a shotgun, semi-automatic pistol, and a rifle, according to Police Commissioner Jeffery Miller. Miller also said that he had a stun gun, two knives, and a bag of 600 rounds of ammunition. The gunman also had an assortment of tools, toilet paper, a change of clothes; a bunch of 2X4’s to barricade himself in the school house. Miller believes that Roberts, the gunman, intended for it to be a long battle. He first let all 15 boys go, then he let four older women go, one who was pregnant, and three who had young children. One of the eleven girls got away from the gunman by following her brother when he told all the boys to leave. After they were out of the schoolhouse, Roberts boarded up the schools’ windows and doors. The gunman then told the eleven girls to line up facing the chalkboard, and then he tied the students’ legs together with wire and plastic ties. The police arrived at the scene at 10:45 after responding to a call from one of the schoolteachers who was let go. The local police set up a perimeter and waited. However, when the police tried to contact the gunman he said that if the police don’t leave in 10 seconds he would start shooting. Before the shooting, he returned a call to his wife and said that he wouldn’t be coming home and “that he was acting out to achieve revenge for something that happened 20 years ago." His wife had made the call when she returned home after dropping their children off at the bus stop. She read the suicide letters and called him and the police. After the call to his wife, he started shooting. The police broke in, three girls had already been shot dead and Roberts had shot himself in the head. One of the girls who was shot, died in the schoolhouse in a state troopers arm. The other died the morning after. The five wounded girls were taken to various hospitals.

---

I removed the above section because it is unreferenced, largely redundant and a mess. There is important information in it that may not be in the article as it stands however. Rich Farmbrough, 09:11, 9 April 2010 (UTC).[reply]

Sarah Ann Stoltzfus's Age

While a number of press releases give her age at the time of the shooting as 12, other news articles give it as 8. The latter seems more plausible, given that a number of said articles contain interviews with people who knew the girls, and that since the age of Sarah Ann's sister Anna Mae is consistently reported as 12, an age of 12 for Sarah Ann would logically make them twins, something which would probably have been noted in reports if true. It would therefore be worth considering changing the age given for her on the page to 8. 82.4.213.71 (talk) 11:32, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Where did he get the guns?

Where, and how, did the killer get the guns?Paulhummerman (talk) 01:10, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They forgave the gunman completely

And reached out to his family. What a testimony! I was very proud to be a Christian on that day. And their forgiveness went a long way to healing their community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.98.41 (talk) 02:56, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merging Charles Carl Roberts to this article

I believe that article should be merged with this one. Most of the content there duplicates what already exists here or can easily be added to certain sections of this article. The "Personal Life" section can be added to "The Perpetrator" section here, the contents of "Amish School Shooting" and "Victims" already exist here, and "Amish response to the crime" can be added to "Aftermath." There have been cases where we have separate articles for the shooter and shooting (e.g. Virginia Tech massacre and Seung-Hui Cho, 2012 Aurora Shooting and James Eagan Holmes, Fort Hood shooting and Nidal Malik Hasan) while others we don't (e.g. Northern Illinois University shooting, Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting, even Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting) and this seems to fall into the category of the latter. Since Roberts committed suicide after the attack, it is very unlikely anything substantially new will come up about him or the shooting. 24.146.209.141 (talk) 01:59, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:1E. "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate." Roberts himself also passes WP:BIO. Also, it does not matter if new information will come up, because Wikipedia is not a news source and is intended as a documentation. --Beerest355 (talk) 15:27, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. While a biography can always be forced into an incident article, the biographical section usually suffers from lack of attention to the biographical components (e.g. Persondata, Infobox). There will be overlapping material but the articles for the incident and for the perpetrator are well served to be kept separate. When a reader is looking for information about the perpetrator why should he be forced to read through the entire incident article?
SBaker43 (talk) 05:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

support per recent sucharticles. He is only known for this incident (and at any rate the article should be Death of ...). a PERPETRATOR section can do it(Lihaas (talk) 20:20, 17 November 2013 (UTC)).[reply]

Links

>> 'Hope - Documentary' - Zachary Roberts, Brother Of Amish Schoolhouse Shooter Documents Forgiveness [1](Lihaas (talk) 20:18, 17 November 2013 (UTC)).[reply]

Documentary

Removed section on incomplete documentary. Shameless self promotion, with link to a funding programme set up for film. Wiki is for information, not promotion. JonOberdorfer (talk) 22:38, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Number of gunshots

It is said that "17 or 18 shots fired in all, including the one he used to take his own life", and also "Janice Ballenger, deputy coroner in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, counted at least a dozen shotgun pellet inflicted wounds", as if this suggests a very great difference in number of shots. A dozen shotgun pellets suggests one shot - but with a shotgun not with a pistol. Haven't these details now been established?Royalcourtier (talk) 06:42, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How could he?

It is within the Amish code to be peace ful. How could he have done this? 47.221.26.107 (talk) 20:31, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested RM (closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann ^(Talk) 18:52, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2006 West Nickel Mines School shooting → West Nickel Mines School shooting – The year does not need to be included because this is the only notable shooting to happen at the school and the school is the identifying factor for the shooting the article is about. MountainDew20 (talk) 01:55, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Pennsylvania has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:21, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Disaster management has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:22, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.