Talk:Ali bin Fetais Al-Marri

Assessment

Clearly meets WP:NPOL Legacypac (talk) 20:01, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Controversies

I have already removed several subsections from the "Controversies" section as being unsourced, not supported by the sources cited, or not directed specifically at Al-Marri, but rather at the laws of Qatar in general. I would further recommend the following changes:

1. Remove sections about his finances ("Ill-gotten gains" and its subsections) as being highly speculative (along the lines of "He has money. Hmmm, we wonder where that comes from."). Unless specific allegations of corruption can be verified by reliable sources, such speculation has no place in a Wikipedia article.
2. Workers' rights: again, this section describes a troubling situation that affects Qatar in general, but that is not directly related to Al-Marri.
3. Corruption: this section is full of accusations and suspicions based on what appear to be biased news sources. There is no reliable evidence or finding of corruption.

This would leave only the section on "Links to Al-Qaeda members" which does appear to contain verifiable facts about Al-Marri and his dealings with known Al-Qaeda members. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:08, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

1. Al Qaeda family member. The Al-Marri and the Al-Qaeda are with Saleh Al Marri. Ali Al-Marri shares the same surname. For instance Not all smiths are related, not all browns are related, not all Trumps are related, likewise all Al-Marris are not related. The article does not show any relation, does not show how they are purported to be related. The source which this refers to says "said to be related" purely guest work and therefore must be removed.

Agreed. The connection is thin. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

2. ill gotten gains. this starts by saying "number of cases", yet there are no cases that are referenced and or shown to support this statement.

The several cases refer to the several subsections of this section: Private mansion in Paris, ROLACC offices in Geneva, etc. I have already agreed above that these sections are highly speculative and should be removed. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

3. "Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri is the subject of several controversies, notably for ill-gotten gains in Geneva and Paris, bank accounts held at the National Bank of Kuwait and human rights violations.[4][5] He was also accused by US media and a leaked diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks of having helped members of his family who were members of Al-Qaeda.[6][7" This is in the intro and parts have already been removed, I would suggest removing all as there is no evidence.

Agreed. This is not an appropriate sentence for the article lead. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

4. Naming his children. What do these children have to do with anything, this site names a child of 6 years old. this is not fair whatsoever.

Agreed. His family members' names are not relevant. They are not, in themselves, notable people, or the claimed relationship is not well-cited. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

5. "This purchase raised questions. Emmanuel Razavi, French journalist interviewed by the newspaper Le Point, said that salaries in the Civil Service in Qatar rarely exceed 12,000 dollars per month". there is no reference stating the earnings of a Minister or the Attorney General. Again guest work. I can say for sure it is more than 12,000 dollars per month.

Agreed. Regardless of Al-Marri's salary, the source of his income needed to purchase this property is not disclosed, and it is merely casting aspersion to suggest that the source is illegitimate. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

6. "According to French journalists Georges Malbrunot and Christian Chesnot, authors of the book Our Dear Emirs, the Attorney General of Qata tried to "offer" a luxurious watch to Bruno Dalles, the Director of TRACFIN, the French financial intelligence agency, who was scandalized.[23][24] , I cannot find this reference in the book. Moreover it is customary to give gifts in this part of the world,it not always tainted.

Bruno Dalles told the reporters: "I was both vexed and stuck by the process, while I had just explained him the purpose of my job is to increase transparency in the movement of funds".[25] I cannot find this quote in the book and how it relates to Dr Ali bin Fetais Al Marri

Agreed. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

7. Swiss authorities suspect Qatar of corruption during the process of awarding the 2022 FIFA World Cup.[28] suspicion is not proof and cannot be written in a way that reads as if the country is guilty.

Many voices are surprised by the absence of investigations led by the Attorney General, who is responsible for fighting corruption in his country.[17]. It is proper to have investigation conducted by others which Qatar has done, therefore Dr Ali is right to stay out of any investigations.

Agreed. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Villa in Cologny On August 26, 2013, Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri acquired a villa located on Chemin de Bonnevaux 15, in the upscale district of Cologny in Geneva, for 7'050'000 Swiss Francs.[2]

Once again, the financial resources of the Attorney General of Qatar raised questions. By whom? no sources reported. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IAACA4 (talk • contribs) 23:32, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree with all of the points raised above. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Censorship and hidden conflicts of interests

Good morning everyone,

I just saw this page and I am concerned by what happened recently.

In short, there seems to be a coordinated move from various inexperienced users (e.g. @IAACA4: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) , IP addresses in Qatar: @37.210.221.186: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) , @37.210.187.102: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) ) and one more veteran Wikipedia contributor (@WikiDan61: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) ) to remove all the critical (but well sourced) sections from this page.

What @WikiDan61: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) wrote in the talk section seems a very unusual whitewash (perhaps even dishonest?) of the page for the Attorney General of Qatar. I suspect that this is the work of people close to the page subject, a clear conflict of interest and vandalism. Wikipedia, in my understanding, should not be a promotional page, but an objective and serious encyclopedia.

While debate is healthy and normal in Wikipedia I guess, censorship should not happen.

I call upon more experienced contributors and moderators to carefully analyze what happened here, and the role @WikiDan61: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) played. The reputation of Wikipedia is at stake, in cases like these.

I reviewed the deleted material, and various elements seem very relevant:

• On the fortune of the Attorney General of Qatar, renowned French newsmagazine Le Point published this article: Title translation: "Responsible for fighting corruption, the Attorney General of Qatar Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri has a rich fortune"

• This article by Le Point was published in English here:

Extract:

"Coming from a family that, a priori, is not very wealthy, how did the founder of the Rule of Law and Anti-Corruption Center buy himself a three-story mansion at 86 Avenue d'Iéna, just a stone's throw from the Arc de Triomphe, for 9.6 million euros in October 2013? The capital of real estate company IENA 86 is divided into 100 shares, which are owned by Ali Bin Fetais Al Marri (98 shares) and by two of his sons, Hamad Ali, born in 2002 (1 share), and Tameem Ali, born in 2013 (1 share)."

• Gulf News also mentioned these information revealed by Le Point:

Extract: "Al Marri is also a main founder of a GSG company in Geneva, which was created on October 26, 2015. According to the press report, Al Marri, who owns 99,000 shares, declares “curiously”, he lives in Cologny, an upscale municipality in the canton of Geneva, and Mrs. Maha Ali M.A. Fetais, 1,000 shares, who is a student in Doha. A few days after its establishment, GSG acquired a property for the amount of 3.321 million euros (14,854 million dirhams), which is the premises of the Geneva’s Rule of Law and Anti-Corruption Center (ROLACC). “In other words, the premises belong to the its chairman, Ali Bin Fetais Al Marri,” the magazine said."

• More recently, Swiss newspaper 24 Heures, wrote this article: Title: Qatar's Mr Clean buys himself a sumptuous palace in Cologny Subtitle: The attorney general of the Emirate, Ali Al Marri, is spending millions for his residence overseeing the lake. He claims to be a figure of transparency, but his sources of funding remain obscure.

This seems to be relevant for the public to know, even if the Attorney General of Qatar does not like the information being public.

• French financial media Boursorama mentions another article by Le Point:

The full article is here:

Again, the French media mentions the fortune of the Attorney General of Qatar and his bank accounts at the National Bank of Kuwait : "Pour ses acquisitions, le procureur général du Qatar ne travaille d'ailleurs pas avec des établissements financiers de son pays, mais avec la National Bank of Kuwait."

This is not from a blog, but a prestigious French media. Why remove it?

At the end of the article, the journalist says that the Swiss Federal Prosecutor has not open an investigation on Ali Bin Fetais Al Marri, "for the moment" (i.e. "Quant au ministère public de la Confédération, il a répondu par mail au Point qu'il « n'a, en l'état, pas été saisi de ce dossier »") This is important information.

• Well-known investigative reporter Matthey Russell Lee ( and /) also wrote this article on March 7, 2019, about the Attorney General of Qatar:

Extract:

"The UN Office on Drugs and Crime named the Attorney General of Qatar its "advocate for anti-corruption in MENA region." Despite the 2022 FIFA World Cup Qatar corruption accusations, and now the evidence of human trafficking and employment law violations by the Qatari royal family right in New York, the UN and the Attorney General of Qatar signed agreement to fight corruption in sport. French and Swiss media report that this Attorney General has several mansions in Paris and Geneva, and is even building a palace by the lake. They wonder how a civil servant could fund this extravagant lifestyle (he is not a member of the royal family). They also attack his bank in Geneva (National Bank of Kuwait) for failing to respect anti-money laundering regulations on PEPs. Shamefully for the UN, they still keep him "advocate for anti corruption", a title he likes to use to give him credibility."

• On the help the Attorney General of Qatar offered to his relatives, who had joined Al Qaeda, Daily Beast (a serious US media) first revealed the information:

Extracts:

"The proposal to trade Al-Marri came from an individual described by one source as a “government contractor” and close friend of Qatar’s attorney general, Ali Bin Mohsen Bin Fetais Al Marri, who is said to be a relative of the confessed terrorist."

"Al-Marri may have other powerful friends in Qatar, in addition to the attorney general."

The information was also mentioned in a US diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks () and Al Arabiya ().

Why remove it?

• On the human rights violations, this BBC article shows that the Attorney General of Qatar wanted to jail a Qatari poet and human rights activist:

Extracts:

"The verdict is likely to prove an embarrassment for Qatar which has worked hard to cultivate a progressive, modern image, and is currently playing host to a major international climate change conference."

"Speaking outside the courtroom on Thursday, Mohammed al-Ajami's lawyer, Najeeb al-Nauimi, said the case had been marred by a number of procedural irregularities and had been held largely in secret. He also alleged that critical evidence had been tampered with. All these charges have been denied by Qatar's Attorney-General, Ali bin Fetais al-Marri."

• Human rights NGO Amnesty International asked for the release of the poet: "Qatar: Release unfairly imprisoned poet Mohammed al-Ajami" ().

• Despite that, in this article, the Attorney General of Qatar wanted to increase the sentence for the poet to a "life term":

Extract: "Qatar's attorney general, Dr Ali bin Fetais al-Marri, also said he was "not happy" with the judgment. "As a chief prosecutor, I look forward to restoring the sentence to a life term," he told Al Jazeera."

This seems a clear attack on human rights.

In light of these elements, how could WikiDan61 accept to delete all the critical but true information, in a very partial manner? Is he working for the Attorney General of Qatar? There could be a conflict of interest here.

This is very strange.

In addition, the profile of @IAACA4: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) is also of concern.

If we look at his contributions (), he started by removing similar negative but true information from the page of the International Association of Anti-Corruption Authorities, which is… Chaired by the Attorney General of Qatar ().

The International Association of Anti-Corruption Authorities in shortened is IAACA.

Does @IAACA4: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) actually work for the IAACA? Did the Attorney General of Qatar and IAACA’s Chairman ask him to "clean" his Wikipedia pages? This is censorship and an attack on Wikipedia values and credibility.

The pages should be reviewed by objective contributors/moderators and a more balanced version restored. Perhaps the page should be protected? Can someone help, I'm not used to Wikipedia?

@WikiDan61: Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC) should also be assessed.

Thank you. Freewheel56 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

References

@Freewheel56: I would argue that the accusations against Al-Marri are a combination of hearsay, guesswork, and accusations against him for upholding the laws of his country. (And yes, the laws of his country may well be unpleasant to residents of other countries, but Al-Marri doesn't make the laws, he only upholds them.) The amount of material seems improper and in violation of WP:BLP. That the sources of his wealth are not clear is not a crime. And until he has been tried and convicted of a crime, WP:BLP argues that the material should not be included in Wikipedia. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:56, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

@Freewheel56: Also, I would remind you to assume good faith. Your accusation that I have a hidden agenda fails that policy. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 22:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

•  Administrator note Given the current dispute, I have full-protected the article for a week so that editors have the chance to discuss the issue amongst themselves, seek input from WP:BLPN or WP:NPOVN, or to use a dispute resolution mechanism. Before protecting the page, I reverted it to a version without the disputed Controversy section; this is purely out of an abundance of caution since this is a BLP and should not be read as an endorsement of that version of the page. Abecedare (talk) 05:12, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

COI

Hello,

Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri is not just the Attorney General of Qatar but also United Nations “Special Advocate for the Prevention of Corruption”.

He is one of the most important figures in the fight against corruption, worldwide.

Therefore, the media debate about his controversial fortune (he is a civil servant, not a royal family member), should not be censored in Wikipedia, @WikiDan61:.

If the United Nations “Special Advocate for the Prevention of Corruption”, owns a multimillion mansion in Paris, that he owns (via a Swiss company) the Swiss offices of his anti-corruption center ROLACC, or that he is building himself a palace near Geneva, it is of prime interest to the public.

This is why the topic made the headlines of prestigious Swiss and French media (see my previous message). Why are you trying to censor this information? I don't underatand it. If you read the references, it is well referenced in quality media.

Of course, Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri would prefer that the public doesn’t read about it. For example, the person who first deleted the controversies section, @IAACA4: , seems to have a conflict of interest. IAACA refers to the International Association of Anti-Corruption Authorities, of which the President is Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri... COI?

But Wikipedia should not be a promotional page for a politician.

On the Al-Qaeda support, you said “Agreed. The connection is thin.”

In a detailed article (which was in the reference list, and which you somehow ignored), The Daily Beast wrote:

“The proposal to trade Al-Marri came from an individual described by one source as a “government contractor” and close friend of Qatar’s attorney general, Ali Bin Mohsen Bin Fetais Al Marri, who is said to be a relative of the confessed terrorist.”

“The Daily Beast has learned that the proposal was floated in July 2014 to the then-U.S. ambassador in Qatar by an individual acting on behalf of that country’s attorney general.”

“Al-Marri may have other powerful friends in Qatar, in addition to the attorney general.”

How can this not be of interest to the public? How is the connection “thin”?

By the way, if you read the article, there is no rebuttal from Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri.

More neutral contributors should have a look at this obvious censorship attempt.

Thank you, Freewheel56 (talk) 12:44, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

@Freewheel56: The Daily Beast article said:

"The proposal to trade Al-Marri came from an individual described by one source as a “government contractor” and close friend of Qatar’s attorney general, Ali Bin Mohsen Bin Fetais Al Marri, who is said to be a relative of the confessed terrorist." (emphasis added)

The problems with this statement:

1. "described by one source" -- hearsay;
2. "'government contractor'" -- the quotes leave a question as to who actually floated this proposal;
3. "who is said to be a relative of the confessed terrorist" -- said by whom? Al-Marri is apparently a common name in Qatar, so unless a family relationship has actually been established (rather than merely rumored), we have no basis for this statement.

The other statements are equally problematic:

"Al-Marri may have other powerful friends in Qatar, in addition to the attorney general." -- the article did not sufficiently establish that Al-Marri (the terrorist) and Al-Marri (the AG) are at all related or know each other in any way.

I will admit that the circumstantial evidence against Al-Marri is not great, but at Wikipedia, we deal in verifiable facts, not unverified suspicions. WP:BLP makes very clear that we cannot include negative information about subjects unless that information is based on the most solid sources, and in this case, I believe the statements do not have solid sources. And again, I will caution you about accusing me of having a conflict of interest in this case. If you look at my history of editing, you will note that I have edited across the entire range of topics at Wikipedia, mostly fighting vandalism. I have no interest in the workings of the Qatari government. My only interest is in seeing that this and all articles adhere to Wikipedia policies. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:22, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree completely that more NEUTRAL Contributes should get involved as #freewheel56 appears not see the woods for the trees. He has reinserted names of Al-Marri's children here even those under the age of 16. What is the purpose? where is the public interest in knowing names? court has the power to make the following Orders for the benefit of a child:

1. Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri is the subject of several controversies, notably for ill-gotten gains in Geneva and Paris, bank accounts held at the National Bank of Kuwait and human rights violations.[4][5] He was also accused by US media and a leaked diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks of having helped members of his family who were members of Al-Qaeda.[6][7].

Where is the evidence and or source, the word several has been used but where is the evidence? the Al-Qaeda link is so weak had as been addressed that it should come off. Geneva and Paris homes, once again where is the source of that material, note it comes from one article.

2. From a modest family, Al-Marri quickly made a career out of his loyalty. "He has no room for manoeuvre within the seraglio. […] The Al-Marri are not lucky enough to be part of the elite", explain French journalists Nicolas Beau and Jacques-Marie Bourget.[9]"At the palace's request, he is the one who judicially executes the troublemakers, prosecuting them for corruption, which is not a difficult task".[9]

  From a modest family, Al-Marri quickly made a career out of his loyalty. "He has no room for manoeuvre within the seraglio. […] The Al-Marri are not lucky enough to be part of the elite" Where is the public interest in this line?

I thank Wikidan61 for showing be a truly neutral contributor not one out damage Wikipedia and or to make damaging comments about others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IAACA4 (talk • contribs) 07:03, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Protected edit request on 18 March 2019

IAACA4 (talk) 07:08, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

I would like to remove

1. Hamad Ali, born in 2002, and Tameen Ali, born in 2013.[10] daughter Sadeem Ali born 2007. There is no good reason why the names of these children are there and there is no public interest.

1. According to media reports, Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri is related to Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri and his brother Jarallah, both Al-Qaeda members.[6][7][12]. There is no link that is shown.
2. Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri is the subject of several controversies, notably for ill-gotten gains in Geneva and Paris, bank accounts held at the National Bank of Kuwait and human rights violations.[4][5] He was also accused by US media and a leaked diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks of having helped members of his family who were members of Al-Qaeda.[6][7]. there is no evidence that links. it is all poorly sourced and hearsay.

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — JJMC89 (T·C) 07:08, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 20 March 2019

1 - ADD CATEGORIES

[[Category:Government ministers of Qatar]]

[[Category:People from Doha]]

2 - REMOVE CATEGORY NOTICE JoeHebda (talk) 00:29, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done @JoeHebda: Thank you for suggesting this edit. I have now implemented it. --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 01:03, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Swiss officials boycott Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri

According to the Swiss newspaper NZZ, Swiss federal justice minister refused to sign a MoU with Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri given his dubious reputation.

The Swiss Federal Attorney was passed the filed and he initially also refused to sign the document. He eventually did so, discreetly the newspaper reveals.

Qatari officials, including Ali Bin Fetais Al-Marri, have been unhelpful in investigating corruption for the next FIFA World Cup in Qatar.

Link for the article: https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/schweiz-katar-zusammenarbeit-bei-fifa-affaere-harzig-ld.1474210

Clear defamatory attempts

Good Morning! This article is nothing like what Wikipedia should represent. There are clear defamatory motives behind the way this article was written and structured, and that through highlighting and propagating some tailored defamatory accusations with the help of clearly below Wikipedia standards media outlets. The user who created this article is no longer exists and disappeared after creating his one and only article. I would ask veteran Wikipedia editors to step in and uphold the rules of Wikipedia by deleting the whole article for the lack of credible, independent and reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.93.38.115 (talk) 07:41, 25 August 2020 (UTC)