Talk:Accessibility of transport in London

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A fact from Accessibility of transport in London appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 August 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that a third of London Underground stations have step-free access?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Accessibility of transport in London.

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Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: That is quite a tour-de-force of an article - well done and well referenced and constructed. To the extend that it can be condensed a little more (and 4-paragraph lede installed), that would even be more helpful for casual readers, but great job. thanks Aszx5000 (talk) 12:43, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks hugely! I've tried to copy the layout of similar articles in New York, Toronto and Boston, that's why it's concise. Thanks for your feedback! Turini2 (talk) 12:55, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 18:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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London Taxi with wheelchair ramp

... that in 2006, London became one of the first major cities to have an fully accessible bus fleet?

Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2007/december/transport-for-london-wins-independent-living-award

ALT1: ... that all London taxis have been accessible to wheelchair passengers since 2000? Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/18/travel/rolling-along-in-london.html
Reviewed:
Comment: Hi, this article has been a labour of love for 3 years and it's finally moved to mainspace! I offer a variety of hooks (positive and negative), happy for feedback on this - there's a fair few relevant photos too.

Moved to mainspace by Turini2 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Turini2 (talk) 12:44, 2 July 2024 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Some problems need fixing. TheNuggeteer (talk) 02:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've made changes and comments as required to the article. I think I'd like to focus on the positive hooks, with this photo instead? Turini2 (talk) 11:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I found a better hook.

Alt2: that only a third of London Underground stations have step free access?

I think that is more interesting as since the TfL bus fleet has been accessible for a while. but since the LU is the oldest metro systems, its partially accessible with only a third. Also with taxis, I assume you're talking about the TfL ones since other services like Uber likely don't have the accessibility scheme in place and use a normal car. I also think something that is not mostly accessible is better and more interesting that those that are fully accessible. For example, a hook stating that the Elizabeth line is fully accessible (even including the old stations) wouldn't be interesting as new(er) systems are expected to be accessible/have step free systems. JuniperChill (talk) 09:36, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I'm happy to go with that hook with a minor tweak for "step-free"- yes, I mean "London black taxi", technically Uber is not a taxi (Vehicle for hire). I didn't want to be too negative about accessibility, but the Tube one is balanced. Could use the lead photo - unsure on caption though! Turini2 (talk) 10:51, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the late reply as I was out and about. Anyway, I don't really need to see the point of the photo if we are talking about 1/3rd of LU stations accessible since I cannot think what demonstrates it, plus its very tight for images on DYK because only one image a day (or two images a day in the event of a backlog) for the ~8 hooks. Also @TheNuggeteer:, what do you think of the new hook as you initially reviewed it? JuniperChill (talk) 16:23, 8 July 2024 (UTC):::::I think "only" should be removed, but other than that, it's fine. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 23:38, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alt2: ... that a third of London Underground stations have step-free access?
Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/step-free-access?intcmp=1954

All other issues with the article are now resolved (it has a more substantive lead, fixed words etc) Turini2 (talk) 09:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now its time to turn the signal green now that the hook issue has been fixed. I didn't know step-free has a hyphen so I'm fine with that alongside removing the 'only'. JuniperChill (talk) 10:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

London cable car

Does the London cable car fall within the ambit of this article? It seems to be accessible - its website says it allows for "most wheelchairs" [1]. It doesn't (explicitly) say anything about assistance dogs - TfL's conditions of carriage don't mention the cable car in its assistance dog section (9.15). The cabins appear to have the usual high-contrast step, but there don't seem to be the audio cues you get on the Underground ("doors closing" etc.). There does seem to be a TfL agent to render help. It would be an interesting addition to note how blind and partially sighted travellers feel about using it. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 17:13, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I'll be honest, the cable car is such a minor part of the transport network that I unconsciously overlooked it. There's no reason it can't be included, thanks for prompting! Turini2 (talk) 18:49, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What does it mean accessible?

Sorry for both the question and my English, but I don't get it. The article shows accessibility as something binary: each station is either accessible or not. However, when I look at this source (especially its "Key to symbols" on the right), I see 3 step ranges, 3 gap ranges, 2 ramp types, etc. How does all this translate into one binary yes/no? What combinations of step, gap, ramp, etc. are considered accessible? Vcohen (talk) 11:31, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey - thanks for your question! The article does touch in this throughout. Accessibility allows everyone to travel through the transport system – the requirements for someone in a wheelchair is going to be different than someone who is partially sighted for example. Accessible isn't just step-free access, ramps, handrails or dropped kerbs – its also about training of staff, audio-visual announcements, quality signage, good lighting etc.

In terms of the source you reference, I concentrate on the tube map, which shows which stations have step-free access. I used a note (and text) to caveat that this is at least "accessible from street to platform level". I do note that where gaps are present, humps or boarding ramps are available. I do not go into the fine detail of vertical/horizontal gaps - because wikipedia is a) not a travel guide b) should not be relied on for advice c) too much detail. Turini2 (talk) 16:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]