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Featured article1937 tour of Germany by the Duke and Duchess of Windsor is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 20, 2021.
Did You KnowOn this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 25, 2019Good article nomineeListed
August 24, 2020Featured article candidatePromoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on January 30, 2019.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that during the Duke and Duchess of Windsor's 1937 tour of Germany (pictured), their alcoholic chaperone Robert Ley crashed them at speed through a factory gate?
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on October 11, 2019, October 11, 2021, and October 11, 2023.
Current status: Featured article


Comment on name change

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Moved back to Duke and Duchess of Windsor's 1937 tour of Germany (will implement once redirect is cleared to make way). (non-admin closure) {{u|Sdkb}} talk 18:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Moved from Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ex-King of Britain's visit to Nazi Germany/archive1
In defence of "Windsors' visit to Nazi Germany", they are called the "the Windsors" throughout the article and Edward in particular is called "Windsor", both per custom of referring to peers by their titles. In other words, they are called Windsor because of his dukedom, not royal house. But in any case, I think Wallis should be somewhere in the title, not least because much of the episode revolved around her. Surtsicna (talk) 15:54, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh balls, this has got off to a fine start  :) I think you're both right. I originally redux'd the title as just, frankly, it was a mouthful (and in any case, 1937 was an unnecessary DAB, since there's no other article on the Windsors touring Germany). How about Duke and Duchess of Windsor's visit to Nazi Germany, seems to summarise the essential elements (and I agree that I was a bit naughty omitting Wallis).
Dudley Miles, I appreciate your allegations of page-moving against consensus. Consensus with whom, would be the obvious question. It has had no other substantial editors than myself. Anyway. ——Serial # 16:05, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On Surtsicna's point, it is not just a question of what names are used in the article, but of having an unambiguous title for someone who has not yet read it. I still prefer the original title as it is neutral in tone and conveys exactly what the article is about for someone who has limited knowledge of the subject. As to consensus with whom, you have a point but my understanding is that it is always better to give notice of a potentially controversial name change so that anyone who has it on their watchlist can comment. Dudley Miles (talk) 16:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, Dudley Miles. Look—and @Surtsicna: too—can we move this discussion to the article talk page as you suggest? If a move discussion is required, it will have more eyes on it and if necessary the WP:MOVEREQ can be made official there. ——Serial # 17:13, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fine with me. Dudley Miles (talk) 17:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Dudley Miles and Surtsicna: Suggest moving the thing back where it was. I'm not so invested in my original move that to insist on it, and I kind of gather that, if I hadn't made that move, would you Surtsicna, have made yours? Incidentally, your copyedits were appreciated; good idea about the picture. ——Serial # 18:32, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also pinging User:Caeciliusinhorto who reviewed this at GA and might have formed an opinion. ——Serial # 19:06, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also pinging User:Guerillero who—albeit inadvertently—kind of started this ball rolling :)——Serial # 09:43, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I probably would not have moved the article if Wallis had not been cut out, no, but I do now see room for improvement in the title. Edward and Wallis are the only Windsors to have ever been commonly called that but if my suggestion ("Windsors' visit to Nazi Germany") won't fly, I guess any simplification is welcome. There is nothing particularly important about it being 1937 (and not, say, 1938), and I think having "Nazi Germany" in the title rather than "1937" makes it much clearer to the reader why this might be an encyclopedic topic. What one gathers from "Duke and Duchess of Windsor's 1937 tour of Germany" is that two royal people went on a vacation, while "Windsors' visit to Nazi Germany" (or something to that effect) immediately signals a political significance. Surtsicna (talk) 19:39, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. On second thought I think it probably should be Windsors plural: Duke and Duchess of Windsors' 1937 tour of Germany. Tim riley you are a grammar buff - do you have a view on this? Dudley Miles (talk) 08:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, I agree, if only because the article's opening sentence is Edward, Duke of Windsor, and Wallis, Duchess of Windsor, visited Nazi Germany in October 1937. Indeed, it's the fact of Germany being Nazi that makes the visit notable: after all, they visited Austria a few months earlier, but it'd be hard to make an article out of that... ——Serial # 18:55, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hold on, if they visited Austria months earlier then this would be the second royal visit to Nazi Germany, which includes Austria! GPinkerton (talk) 21:58, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not for another six months... ——Serial # 09:18, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As this article points out! DuncanHill (talk) 09:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@DuncanHill: It was a tour and they were royals (or he was, not sure about her status precisely). The article already calls it a tour, and when royals make a tour, then they call that royal's tour a royal tour, especially when they meet the head of state. GPinkerton (talk) 22:47, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The article notes that he was a royal, but she had been explicitly excluded by the letters patent published in the Gazette. ——Serial # 09:21, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 18 September 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Duke and Duchess of Windsor's 1937 tour of Germany → 1937 tour of Germany by the Duke and Duchess of Windsor – Better encyclopedic title. Peter Ormond 💬 02:42, 18 September 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Mdewman6 (talk) 00:25, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The policy is WP:AT § Precision and disambiguation: Usually, titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that. Applied ruthlessly, that would rule out "Nazi" in the title, too. My own feeling is that if we have "Nazi" in the title, we need the year, because a visit by a famous person in 1933 or 1934 would have had very different political overtones from one in 1937, 1941 or 1945 : that is, it is part of the "topical scope". I still think the significance of the visit was its timing, as the article explains. Compare "Berlin 1936". It's clear they were the (only) Duke and Duchess of Windsor, or we'd say "1st Duke and Duchess". My very tentative suggestion of replacing with the more concise "the Windsors" was indeed that I doubted whether that would be recognisably the Duke and Duchess. 85.67.32.244 (talk) 17:23, 5 October 2021 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 04:59, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Between "Duke and Duchess of Windsor's [tour]" and "[tour] by the Duke and Duchess of Windsor", there's no real policy reason to prefer one or the other, besides pure opinion (as seen in the Support justifications above). I think the current phrasing is perfectly fine English. A number of participants in the previous discussion #Comment on name change apparently thought so too (e.g. User:SlimVirgin [SarahSV]). The style should be retained. As for the possibility of dropping "1937" and/or changing "Germany" to "Nazi Germany", I express no view here. Adumbrativus (talk) 05:42, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think "Duke and Duchess" without an article is "perfectly fine English"; one wouldn't say "Hitler met Duke and Duchess of Windsor", or "Duke and Duchess of Windsor met Hitler". But that smacks of pedantry. 85.67.32.244 (talk) 17:44, 5 October 2021 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 04:59, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
When used in a sentence, we would say "the Duke and Duchess of Windsor's 1937 tour of Germany". Leaving the word "the" out of the title itself is standard (with certain exceptions that don't apply here); see WP:THE. Adumbrativus (talk) 21:23, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't say that in a sentence, I'd say "the tour of Germany in 1937 by the D and D of W". Yes, we use a somewhat telegraphic style in titles; but there is more to it than that: the order of the nouns "Duke and Duchess of Windsor", "1937" and "tour of Germany" dictates the emphasis and, perhaps, ease of search (which is why "the" is omitted). Each is syntactically correct, of course. 85.67.32.244 (talk) 07:15, 6 October 2021 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 04:59, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support due to better English, over an urge to oppose per TITLECHANGES. “1937” is very important to be in the title because it was a notorious EVENT in 1937, and for recognisability. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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